what's Satan's destiny?

[marie glen]

Cardinal if demonic entities are capable of independent thought how can they only exist to kill and destroy? Would they not have the same choices as humans do?

:thumbsup:

perhaps they don't only exist to kill and destroy.. perhaps the whole problem stems from the ability to make choices (though so very limited, thank Goodness).. which, choice, I believe is very likely an offshoot of thinking ability.. If God is life (itself, who, what else could be?) and if He is perfection, which surely(?) He is.. Then couldn't we say when God endowed rationality and the ability to think and reason, didn't then a whole new world (or tree) of possibilities come about? Seeing as sooner or later, thinking ability will include the ability to make choices.

For whenever one chooses anything in thought, word or deed, which differs with what He chooses, they become imperfect the opposite of life.. hence death, and life, as we presently know it..

And in that path lies all the potential (a bottomless pit!) and cannot help but include oppression (trickery) and predator-ness... dog eat dog.. of all degrees.. and worse.. (it's a big no no, personally and collectively, going one's own way as opposed to His Way :smile: )

[Cardinal]

Bex,I find the correlation regarding the belly interesting. offsprings of viper..which crawl on their belly..and whose 'god' is their belly..

  dust eater's......

  attempting to rip yours out.Little did they know..you had been eating the Lamb..and that the 'word of God' was in your belly!

    eating the little scroll.....taste's like honey on the tongue...but makes the belly bitter.

:cloud9: You know, I hadn't thought about it. Good point. Needless to say, I was shocked because the most He had ever let one do to me before while in deliverance mode, was scratch me or try to hold me. I commanded it to loose me, and go into the fire of the living God and it released me immediately. I'm sure it didn't like what it got from God in return.  :laughing7: Thank God for the authority through the Son and His blood.

After she spoke up and said it had been doing that to her, many times the pain dropping her to her knees, THEN I knew why He had allowed it. There is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. It no doubt enjoyed bringing HER to her knees, but not so much the other way around.

Many times praying for people over the years, I would feel their pain in their body part, a kind of bearing the burdens of the weak, and that is one way He would show me what the problem was and then heal it. Him being touched by our infirmities, I think was literal. You can't have true compassion without walking in someone else's shoes.

I have to go back over there at the appointed time, because something has been trying to get back into the house at night. It put on quite a display of a light show one night for her and her husband out in the yard, but it couldn't get back in. It's stopped at the house. Even the neighbors are terrified of her yard; they've all reported seeing a black robed figure standing in her back yard at night. She's got pit bulls and they're terrified to go out if the thing is out there. I think all the Satanic activity and Kali worship brought an abundance of evil, not just one.

Interestingly, years ago when I was doing home health I was sent to a house just a couple of blocks from theirs. The woman there I was told was having anxiety attacks in the middle of the night and would become so out of it, she would end up in the local mental hospital for a few days. I was allowed to sleep if she did, in her grown son's bedroom across the hall. In the middle of the night, I had my breath taken away, literally.

There was a demonic entity under my bed, with huge wings, and it used it's huge wings to like envelope me on the bed. Another shocking moment. At the same second, the Lord was showing me her grown son I had never met, in Satanic high priest robes, laughing. I jolted awake and went into warfare mode. He said the son was trying to get complete control over her, so he could get her finances, which were substantial, and if killing her was the way to get it, he was so ate up, he didn't care. No other living relatives to intervene.

The next morning, I decided to see what was under the bed that gave it legal right to be there, and found a sketchbook with demonic figures he had drawn in detail, including one like the one that visited me. No doubt this kid was seeing them when he started to dabble in it. He was an only child and she had left his room just like it was when he moved away to go to college. I don't think she had any idea what was in his room, including Ouija board and demonically inspired "games".

That afternoon I was still there, and he came in with two of his coven members, and though he had never seen me before, glared at me and told my boss he didn't want ME to come back. I had done nothing, said nothing out of the way, just prayed the remainder of the night, and IT and him were offended. Again, there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed. Blessings...

[Cardinal]

Cardinal if demonic entities are capable of independent thought how can they only exist to kill and destroy? Would they not have the same choices as humans do?

Also, the mind is capable of doing a lot of things which what we call a mental illness. Wouldn't it not be stretching to call every mental illness a spiritual attack?

:cloud9: No, because they already made their choice. Salvation is not available to them, because they are not men, unless at the culmination of His grand plan, He chooses to make it so. But I personally doubt it. Until whom much is given much is expected. If it's true of us, how much more so would it be them?

When did I say every mental illness was a spiritual attack? Blessings....

[Aerex]

:cloud9: No, because they already made their choice. Salvation is not available to them, because they are not men, unless at the culmination of His grand plan, He chooses to make it so. But I personally doubt it. Until whom much is given much is expected. If it's true of us, how much more so would it be them?

When did I say every mental illness was a spiritual attack? Blessings....

Your right you didn't mention mental ilness I should not have included that in my statements. I was making a point that the mind is capable of a lot of things . I don't think we completely understand how it works.

In regards to the demonic entities, I was making the argument that if they have independent thoughts then they are capable of independent like humans they should be capable of changing like any sentient being except God. Now, I personally know what spirits are but I do hope God gives the same mercy as he has given to mankind. I am sure God is far merciful than me.

Now, if we say much is expected of us Christ asl

[rosered]

      UNDERSTANDING   for me is     Satan is a dog on a short leash  , short time and   short work ,  for each and every one of us ,, an accuser , robber and thief and one of Gods creation  for a specific purpose       ''to destroy''    ... and evil is its  motive  , no love or God , God is love in  this  entity  /being ,a thing with distinct and independent existence   , roaming freely in the earths  core  , our dust bodies .

  Satan  is used for the destruction of the flesh  , so on the Day of the Lord the Spirit will be saved   ....  the Spirit is Life , and of God   and LOVE is the motive or intent  proving   TRUTH .

  no flesh pleases God , so the  devil is designed and assigned    to destroy flesh  ,  the  flesh is  to me  just a catalyst     for containing the spirit

   a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any permanent chemical change.
a person or thing that precipitates an event:  in other words   ''trials of faith ''   

When tested   it is proven  ,   to be weakened  or strengthened  by the events   [catalyst ]     satan does not change   , but we do   
  In our weakness God is our strength      , in our  doubt    Jesus Christ is faithful     ,    and the mixing of the two     creates a chaos    ,  no order    , just sifting   out and separating the good from the bad     in us all , when we are awakened to it       , or realizing  Day light dawns after the darkest of  night ,    what just happened   ,  We can most definitely  GLORIFY GOD    though the experience   ..
  The Spirit within  prays for things  to God that the carnal mind cannot even begin to comprehend       , this relationship is  ruled by the hidden man of the  heart

  Being either the Lord Jesus Christ   , or the man of sin   which  ever outcome  is made  KNOWN   though and by the testing ....

  I  tried to explain  in the best of  abilities  by Gods grace  on all of us ,, God bless us with more of Him     , truly I am  sincere   or would have just kept silent  on  the matter .

  :HeartThrob:       I love you all and  still grieve  at times ,  till the Lord comes for refreshing ..

       

[GodIsLove]

            UNDERSTANDING   for me is     Satan is a dog on a short leash  , short time and   short work ,  for each and every one of us ,, an accuser , robber and thief and one of Gods creation  for a specific purpose       "to destroy"    ... and evil is its  motive  , no love or God , God is love in  this  entity  /being ,a thing with distinct and independent existence   , roaming freely in the earths  core  , our dust bodies.

  Satan  is used for the destruction of the flesh  , so on the Day of the Lord the Spirit will be saved   ....  the Spirit is Life , and of God   and LOVE is the motive or intent  proving   TRUTH .

  no flesh pleases God , so the  devil is designed and assigned    to destroy flesh  ,  the  flesh is  to me  just a catalyst     for containing the spirit

   a substance that increases the rate of a chemical reaction without itself undergoing any permanent chemical change.
a person or thing that precipitates an event:  in other words   "trials of faith "   

When tested   it is proven  ,   to be weakened  or strengthened  by the events   [catalyst ]     satan does not change   , but we do   
  In our weakness God is our strength      , in our  doubt    Jesus Christ is faithful     ,    and the mixing of the two     creates a chaos    ,  no order    , just sifting   out and separating the good from the bad     in us all , when we are awakened to it       , or realizing  Day light dawns after the darkest of  night ,    what just happened   ,  We can most definitely  GLORIFY GOD    though the experience   ..
  The Spirit within  prays for things  to God that the carnal mind cannot even begin to comprehend       , this relationship is  ruled by the hidden man of the  heart

  Being either the Lord Jesus Christ   , or the man of sin   which  ever outcome  is made  KNOWN   though and by the testing ....

  I  tried to explain  in the best of  abilities  by Gods grace  on all of us ,, God bless us with more of Him     , truly I am  sincere   or would have just kept silent  on  the matter .

  :HeartThrob:       I love you all and  still grieve  at times ,  till the Lord comes for refreshing ..

     

Yes! Especially the part I put in bold.

[rosered]

   I love this  scripture  and it has really impacted my thought process    and have mentioned it before   

   Because suffering and  sin abounds , it is so hard to keep   the joy of the Lord in our spirits  when we see so much suffering  and wrong doing in the world happening  ,  I at times feel guilty for enjoying  Life  WHEN seeing others still suffering so greatly  and such lack of love 

   It is better if God would will it you suffer for doing  good  than evil doing ....

  1 Peter 3 Suffering for Righteousness
...16and keep a good conscience so that in the thing in which you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ will be put to shame.


17For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.


18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;...

  and than  When Paul says  , God has better things for you in mind since the Cross of JESUS CHRIST   the grace of God has been given ,   just how truly blessed we really are ...

  Hebrews 11 The Faith of Many
...39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,

40  because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

The beginning  to me being Israel   a Son and firstborn   , flesh Exodus 4:  20-24,  that was   called out of the world and  in JESUS CHRIST[only begotten  , one of a kind Son SPIRIT ]   would the perfection come  through Him ...

[CHB]

My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

[rosered]

My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

Hi CHB ,
For  me ,I can certainly see what you are saying .
  But Satan represents EVIL and    all forms of it   .
I just see   NO evil existing  at all   in God , I see it more of a perish in the using   type .
  This is just mine own thoughts about it ..

    We shall all be changed in a twinkling of an eye ..

I do believe whatever is not'' holy'' pure  etc..  will be consumed by  God whom is,  an all consuming fire   of LOVE ... :HeartThrob:

I guess it is how many see satan    either as a being     or as an  adversary  and opposite  of everything God is not ,  a  non being .   but a principle and generally refers to a rule, law, or general truth.

   I can only   wonder ...

[micah7:9]

My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

:thumbsup:

[CHB]

My understanding of it is, God created Satan for a purpose and he is doing exactly what God has given him to do but in the end Satan will be one of the all in all. If all means all as we all say then Satan will be probably one of the last things that will be reconciled. (Phil.3:21), says "he is able even to subdue ALL things unto himself". All things were created by Christ and for Christ. (Col. 1:16-20) If ALL things are reconciled unto Christ, verse 20 says "whether they be things in heaven or earth". (Eph. 1:10) "in the fulness of times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ".  Now if all means all that would include Satan and the angels.

CHB

Hi CHB ,
For  me ,I can certainly see what you are saying .
  But Satan represents EVIL and    all forms of it   .
I just see   NO evil existing  at all   in God , I see it more of a perish in the using   type .
  This is just mine own thoughts about it ..

    We shall all be changed in a twinkling of an eye ..

I do believe whatever is not" holy" pure  etc..  will be consumed by  God whom is,  an all consuming fire   of LOVE ... :HeartThrob:

I guess it is how many see satan    either as a being     or as an  adversary  and opposite  of everything God is not ,  a  non being .   but a principle and generally refers to a rule, law, or general truth.

   I can only   wonder ...

If all is in all then no evil will exist. Don't we all have some evil in us that will be destroyed? Satan won't be evil anymore.

CHB

[eaglesway]

Behold! I am making All Things New

[rosered]

CHB   author

If all is in all then no evil will exist. Don't we all have some evil in us that will be destroyed? Satan won't be evil anymore.

CHB

  You said it , destroyed  , exactly ,  perishes in the using  ,  For me not a change but , it/satan /adversary   , liar murderer  accuser  , every form of evil  will not exist  any longer , CHB 

Behold! I am making All Things New

Yes exactly , the new creature in Christ  , as the man of sin is destroyed /perishes  by the breath of Christ coming   
  Those are along the lines  of  what I  was trying to  say . 

   God bless ..

[eaglesway]

We were all liars and murderers too, but the sin in us was destroyed, not us. I guess it simply breaks down to whether you believe Satan is a being or not. i think he is and he will be redeemed, along with any other sentient beings in the universe. All things were created by Him, All things will be reconciled, For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.



Colossians 1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach

Ephesians 1

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think it's entirely possible. All things are possible with God. Blessings...

[rosered]

:cloud9: I think it's entirely possible. All things are possible with God. Blessings...

:iagree:   :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

We were all liars and murderers too, but the sin in us was destroyed, not us. I guess it simply breaks down to whether you believe Satan is a being or not. i think he is and he will be redeemed, along with any other sentient beings in the universe. All things were created by Him, All things will be reconciled, For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.



Colossians 1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach

Ephesians 1

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Now I believe this, "All things were created by Him, All things will be reconciled, For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things."

Now, this....."I guess it simply breaks down to whether you believe Satan is a being or not. i think he is "

I believe the adversary is a spirit, and very real but falling into the catalog of "things", why or what makes you believe the adversary is a "being" other than existing? Just curious :Peace2:

[eaglesway]

The scriptures use personality descriptives and personal pronouns to describe him, as well as conversations with God in Job and wth Jesus on the mount of temptation, So I think he is a being with an ego, like Michael or Gabriel-tho I have no real opinion on the whole Christian mythology of his origins, Paul calls him the god of this world and Jesus says the fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Proverbs says the gods of the nations are demons. In Daniel we see Michael and Gabriel struggle with the demon Prince of Persia.

Gabriel recounts the story to Daniel in a way that is not allegorical. Actually none of those scriptures are allegorical, with the exception of perhaps Job, which I personally believe is historical.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.........

Satan is a "son of God"

Job 1;12 The Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come? .......

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the Lord, "Does Job fear God for nothing?

Mt 4:10 Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.'"


2 Cor 2:10 But one whom you forgive anything, I forgive also; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did it for your sakes in the presence of Christ, so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.


Mark 3:26 If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished!

[micah7:9]

I get all that, yet...      Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

And I have wondered about.."The scriptures use personality descriptives and personal pronouns to describe him....." and why.

Not wanting a debate or discussion I will stay with "things." Either way the adversary has been given authority and it is a warfare. :Peace2:

[guest5685]

Here is something to think about. The bible says we were enemies in our mind by wicked works. The only works we can have in our mind are thoughts. The bible says(Nahum 1:2) God reserves his wrath for his enemies. Those folks that want to believe in an eternal fiery hell usually react to the message of UR as if the message was one of wrath against their beloved doctrine.

In Zechariah 13:6 he calls us friends. That should eliminate us from wrath not saying we won't endure correction as needed. The TRUTH is wrath upon any doctrine that separates you from the fact that you are considered loved, accepted and highly favored by your Father God.

Funny thing how the New Age thinkers believe in the Law of Attraction. They believe if you think on a thing and visualize a thing it will eventually come your way. They believe your thoughts are powerful as well as your words and actions. Now many say they are trying to do this apart from Jesus but they are getting results. I'm not saying all of them are but there is enough of them that are famous that attribute their success to that practice.

Now if they can do this with their thoughts and visualizations in a positive manner. Believing what they call "Source" since they don't want to associate too closely with Jesus as God but more as a teacher or way shower. Couldn't a person be doing just the opposite believing in the "Devil" and imagining the negative things they fear as in JOB'S case to also bring that same power into being in a negative way? Job was always making sacrifices just in case his kids may have done something wrong. He said the thing he GREATLY FEARED had come upon him. It was what you might call FAITH IN REVERSE.

One more thought about Satan. Have you ever gone to God in prayer about someone that was giving you a hard time on the job or maybe a neighbor that was driving you up the wall with excessively loud boom-boom type music. Going to God with really a big ought in your heart or mind wanting HIM to get them to change and show them how wrong they are not because you really love them but because you really can't stand them. Your prayer motive more concerned about your own good than theirs. Not that you wouldn't want them to change or "Be Saved" but your primary motive is for God to show them how wrong they are and wanting them to be changed more for your benefit. So you could be a SON OF GOD presenting yourself BEFORE GOD and because of your accusing thoughts or motive Satan could be appearing with you BEFORE GOD. Where is Satan? In your wrong thoughts or motives just as you seem to be doing good like Peter when he told Jesus he didn't have to be killed and Jesus said Get Behind Me Satan.

Just putting these thoughts out here to share and I can't claim credit for the paragraph right above here but it was shared with me by a very close friend and seemed to make sense to me.I believe it to be a genuine revelation from the Spirit of God.

THIS POST MIGHT BE BETTER IN THE THREAD ABOUT DEMONS IF SO MODERATORS PLEASE MOVE IT IF NECESSARY--Thank You

[eaglesway]

:

I get all that, yet...      Eph 6:12 for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials."

And I have wondered about.."The scriptures use personality descriptives and personal pronouns to describe him....." and why.

Not wanting a debate or discussion I will stay with "things." Either way the adversary has been given authority and it is a warfare. :Peace2:

:Peace2:

[GodIsLove]

He1MyHeart...
You make some valid arguments...I know that line of thinking is quickly dismissed by some but it does make me think.

I know there's a lot of biblical hurdles if you want to go that route but ETers say that of UR!

I have read other articles that analyze scripture to make your case and some do a good job.

I'm not committed to one single belief on this matter.

Whether or not Satan is a being, a spirit, a force, or a thought...thank God he/it will be no more someday!

Also interestingly, people that are described or accused as Satanic (like pop music icons, illuminati, world leaders) don't seem to exalt Satan in the same way that Christians exalt God....instead they exhaulT THEMSELVES and want to be worshiped by the masses.

[eaglesway]

People who exhibit the character traits of Satan are heavily influenced by him/it.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: What Job feared most was God, and so the dealings of God are what came upon him. Anyone who fears Him will go through the same dealings, but the good news, they shall receive the double portion. My  :2c: Blessings.....

[micah7:9]

As with us all :HeartThrob: :dsunny: