A Revelation Symbol

[marie glen]

This is a hard part of the Book of Revelation to read and meditate upon -

From Rev 19:17-21

And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small."

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. . and...were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.


At first reading someone might think "oh how awful, how can God do that?"

But let's look closer. What is the sword? Likely, the two edged sword - of truth -  truth cuts through every lie..

And let's look at the armies.. they are gathered to Armageddon (Rev 16:14-16; 12:17). Why? To destroy Israel.. Why? Because they are in rebellion and may even hate YHWH.

What is the truth that shall slay them?  -- You cannot fight YHWH/God Almighty.

What would I think of as the symbol in these verses, and not literal?
This - "And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair" (birds of prey which fly higher than the little birds)

I think the birds may well be literal, but if so are a natural phenomenon. And God's calling to them (via His "messenger") is but a way of portraying or signifying this event, like an announcement at the opening of a new act in a play.

Or it is a necessity.. Logically (if this life is a lesson unveiling "truth", the sword) what fire will they suffer? I think it is true (Nahum 1:2) - "God is jealous, and the Lord avenges; The Lord avenges and is furious. The Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries, and He reserves wrath for His enemies"

But I think it is also true that the wrath ("fiery anger") is usually consequences and results of mankind's own doings.. This to me, seems to go along with God's wisdom (and also with His character of kindness, that He has likely sent many "messengers" to try to dissuade mankind of its actions.. And in the day, "He will make a short work of it" and "unless those days would be shortened no flesh would survive"...

..that's my :2c: anyway.. :smile:
and is a post on my blog,  http://bibleprophecy4today.blogspot.com/

[rosered]

What would I think of as the symbol in these verses, and not literal?
This - "And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair" (birds of prey which fly higher than the little birds)

I think the birds may well be literal, but if so are a natural phenomenon. And God's calling to them (via His "messenger") is but a way of portraying or signifying this event, like an announcement at the opening of a new act in a play.

  Awesome Marie !! :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

  a messenger in the Sun [  being  the LIGHT OF DAY/a fulness  ] standing in Truth   ,    because we know that there is  nothing new under the Sun ...   the world continues not knowing God ...

  those birds   to me are the appointed ones that are called to the great supper of God   , the    old  describes in  Ezekiel 39:18-20  the same thing  in Rev 19

  and  it is twice told  ,   the old and the new    both witnesses

Ecc 6     explains  just how much   mankind does not know  God     under the sun   

   The Whole Word fits , It really does ...

GODS  Blessings Marie    !! :HeartThrob:


   

[Shev]

The two edged sword is the word of God. In the book of His revelation, Jesus Christ is seen multiple times with this two edged sword coming out of His mouth.

16He had in His right hand seven stars, out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was like the sun shining in its strength. (Revelation 1:16)

12"And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,     "These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword:.." (Revelation 2:12)

16Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. (Revelation 2:16)

15Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[g] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. (Revelation 19:15)

21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. (Revelation 19:21)

Read from a carnal perspective, these passages in Revelation seem to speak of doom and gloom, as we see the sword being used against both the backslidden people of God, and also the nations outside of the household of faith. It is a sword that is used to fight against, to smite, and to kill. However, when we reference a key scripture from Hebrews, it becomes readily apparent just what this two edged sword is, and we begin to unlock the symbolism behind this judgment:

12For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. (Hebrews 4:12-13)

So the two edged sword is nothing other than the Word of God! This explains the vision of the sword coming out of the mouth of Jesus Christ. We see how God's word goes forth in judgment within a man, piercing to the depths of soul and spirit, being capable of pruning and purging so that all ungodliness and fleshliness is cut off, cast into the fire, and thus burned up.

[Shev]

This symbol of the word also pops up in the story of Ehud, as the two edged sword makes it's appearance in the story of Israel's oppression under Moab:

16And Ehud made for himself a sword with two edges, a cubit in length, and he bound it on his right thigh under his clothes. (Judges 3:16)

Now it becomes increasingly clear that Ehud is a type of the corporate Man-Child here, both from his use of the two edged sword, but also from the fact he is raised up by God as a judge, to deliver a people in bondage:

and the LORD raised up for them a deliverer, Ehud, the son of Gera, the Benjaminite, a left-handed man. (Judges 3:15)

We go on to learn something very interesting about the pagan king that Ehud assassinates that gives us insight into what he represents:

Now Eglon was a very fat man. (Judges 3:17)

The fact that Eglon is explicitly revealed to be a very fat man draws a clear symbol of the flesh, the carnal man. We have the vivid picture of a fleshly king seated on a throne, oppressing the people of God, much as the man of sin takes the seat he ought not, setting up his deceitful throne within the heart of man:

3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[c] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4)

But when the righteous judge is raised up by God, He comes forth with the oracle of God:

And Ehud said, "I have a message from God for you." And he arose from his seat. 21And Ehud reached with his left hand, took the sword from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. (Judges 3:20)

The Word of God, that two edged sword, originating from the mouth of Jesus Christ and being wielded by His body, penetrates the man of flesh, utterly destroying him.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

[greg]

...

So the two edged sword is nothing other than the Word of God! This explains the vision of the sword coming out of the mouth of Jesus Christ. We see how God's word goes forth in judgment within a man, piercing to the depths of soul and spirit, being capable of pruning and purging so that all ungodliness and fleshliness is cut off, cast into the fire, and thus burned up.

I read your article on your website, nice job, very informative.

Here is geographical evidence that the two-edged sword also manifests in space and time as peoples: http://www.logicalhierarchy.com/blog/the-encoded-sword-shepherds-staff/

(http://www.logicalhierarchy.com/Miscellaneous-Images/7-Churches-Revelation-Sword-Staff.jpg)

[Shev]

Thanks Greg, and that map is extremely interesting too. I have been perusing your site also.  :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

I think man reaps what he sows, but God also acts sovereignly. In fact, every major change of aion or even dispensation has been accompanied by tremendous demmonstrations of YHWHs sovereign hand in the earth.

The flood, The tower of Babel, the Exodus and the entire camnpaign of Israel through the promised land, as well as multiple deliverances of Israel involved direct miracles in the earth....signs and wonders blood and smoke.

I personally have no doubt that this, the greatest change in the world since the flood, will be accompanied by many such direct manifestation, in fact..... I believe more and more so as the Dawning Day approachesd.

Since the Spirit has expressly spoken through Paul to the Thessalonians and in the boook of Hebrews that the son of perdition will come in with lying signs and wonders even as the Lord, "shakes everything that can be shaken until only that which cannot be shaken remains"....

I expect the fur will fly more and more as we move in a crescendo towards that change.

Even as God shook the Egyptians down until they were willing to let Israel go free.

Also, if you look in Isaiah, Kings and Chronicles, the stories of Hezekiah and Jehoshaphat you will see a startling similarity to the words of Paul, Daniel and John in Revelation. we know that the little horn(whatever we think that is doesnt matter in this context) will speak great arrogant words against the most high and the saints of God and he will try to "wear out the saints".

When the armies of Senacharib surrounded Jerusalem, Rebshakah, his "false prophet" stood outside the walls of Jerusalem and railed at the Israelites not to trust YHWH, who could no more deliver them than the other gods of other lands and that in fact YHWH was giving them over into Senacherib of Assyria's hands.(Isaiah 36-37; 2 Kings 19)

Every reference to the son of perdition has this aspect of "surrounding the city og God" and Senacherib attempted to starve Jerusalem out.

They were delivered by a direct supernatural intervention.


When the assembled nations of Edom, the Moabites and all the others surrounded Jerusalem in Jehoshaphats day, the exact thing happenned. Deliverance through a direct supernatural intervention. Notably, the day before this deliverance God spoke in answer to their UNIFIED CRY FOR HELP, Jehoahaz the prophet twelling them not to pick up weapons, bvut to go out to the battle field and SING FOR JOY TO THE LORD!

Interestingly enough, both of these occasions were preceded by A GREAT RESTORATION OF THE TRUE FAITH in Israel..... so I believe the pre-eminent sign of the end will be a GREAT RESTORATION OF THE TRUE FAITH among the ecclesia- and Revelations is full of images of the body, the Bride, the man-child- manifest in the earth- which is why I think we(generic christian eschatologists) are looking IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. When you see these things begin to happen GO UP ON YOUR ROOF AND LOOK UP :o)

The Bride is coming down out of heaven.... the virgins are being called to the wedding feast....the Kingdom of God is at hand. The sun will be darkened and the moon will be turned to blood. There will be signs in the heavens and the earth. "Thoe who lead the many to righteousness will shine like the stars"..."those who know their God will be strong and DO EXPLOITS".... "Upon theis ROCK I build my church and the gates of hell WILL NOT STAND AGAINST IT"

When you see the book of Acts manifesting undimished, you will know thenm that He is at the door.

In Acts 4 we see THIS SAME PATTERN. The church had exploded and Jerusalem was being turned upside down. They arrested Peter and James and in essence, "surrounded the holy city", blasphemed the holy name by which we are called, and sought to "wear out " the saints.

The saints called upon the name of the Lord as one and as a result, GOD CAME DOWN IN THE SPIRIT, the WHOLE PLACE WAS SHAKEN, they were all filled with the Spirit, and Peter and James were SUPERNATURALLY DELIVERED.

It is the revelation of Jesus Christ in His people, that giant messenger in rev 10, the seed of the woman in revelations 12, the "bride Coming Down Out Of Heaven" in Rev 21 that will be the last greatest change this world has ever seen. The whole creation groans for it. The revelation of the sons of God. The institution of a new heavens and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness.

We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for works prepared before the foundation of the world. We are a kind of first fruits of His creation, that we who were first to believe should be to the praise of His glory.

"Though the earth shakes and the mountains are moved I will not fear"  after all, only that which can be shaken will fall, but we are made of eternal stuff if ewe love Him. We will not be shaken down, we will begin to shine as the shaking intensifies (which is why so many of us are being shaken now).

The problem is that whenSatn reveals his hand to agressively, people begin to see evil for what it is and call out to God, and YHWH hears their cries as the grapes are tread outside the city in the winepress of His wrath.... A WRATH THAT IS SPURRED BY LOVE FOR THE HELPLESS who are being eaten like bread by the strong and the wicked.

He will have His say and all nations will see it together.

All the little children are crying out for it, and most of the mothers in the world. The few remaining fathers who are walking with God know that only He can make it right. And He will, even as the first fruits are harvested :o)

But of course, that is just my opinion  :laugh:

[Ross]

Pretty reasonable opinion I.M.O.

" They were delivered by a direct supernatural intervention."

Key factor so that no man can take any credit for the work and plan of God.

[eaglesway]

No flesh will glory in His presence ;o)

[rosered]

No flesh will glory in His presence ;o)

:thumbsup:

In Spirit & Truth   does any worship and glory to  GOD in the highest        :HeartThrob:

  That  small word  ''glory '' has some  MAJOR  impact  .
Too many  variations in the Bible   to list  for this post  .   
  But a simple   word dictionary  says   this  and only  shared  in  part  here ...

Definition of GLORY

1
a :  praise, honor, or distinction extended by common consent :  renown
b :  worshipful praise, honor, and thanksgiving <giving glory to God>
2
a :  something that secures praise or renown <the glory of a brilliant career>
b :  a distinguished quality or asset
3
a (1) :  great beauty and splendor



God bless  :icon_flower:

[marie glen]

Very interesting thread!
                                   :ty:         and thank you Rose! :girlheart:

[rosered]

Very interesting thread!
                                   :ty:         and thank you Rose! :girlheart:

  :ty:    Sista Marie , I have been enjoying your posts     sis!!!    :HeartThrob:  love  you

[Aerex]

But I think it is also true that the wrath ("fiery anger") is usually consequences and results of mankind's own doings...

This doesn't mean that everything bad that happens to us is our fault. Right?

[eaglesway]

I think we have to trust Him when bad things happen.

Some bad things that have happened to me were my fault. reaping what I'd sowed. Some of bad things were just the rain that falls on the just, and the unjust alike. God has set us in this world as witnesses, so sometimes we experience the same things as other men, so that our witrness has a connection.

Sorrow, joy, tragedy, chaos, sickness, war, crime.....

Sometimes we just don't know- but we always know He loves us so we trust, watch, pray--
and sometimes not knowing draws us closer in seeking Him.

[marie glen]

..amen! :thumbsup:


              ...imagine, ultimately, a universe free from the law of sin and death! and all who have ever been born, also free!

[eaglesway]

 :dsunny:

[jugghead]

But I think it is also true that the wrath ("fiery anger") is usually consequences and results of mankind's own doings...

This doesn't mean that everything bad that happens to us is our fault. Right?

For me it is a matter of perspective, I myself do not consider anything as "bad" that happens to me ..... and I also do not believe it is God testing me in one form or another .....

For me ..... if what the world considers as something bad happening in my life ..... I see it as the Father bringing something to my attention that I am holding to tightly too that needs to be let go ..... either something of this world (physical) or an understanding of what has been taught by men (spiritual).

Is it my fault that something bad happens ..... NEVER ..... for the Father is trying to teach or tell me something

[rosered]

But I think it is also true that the wrath ("fiery anger") is usually consequences and results of mankind's own doings...

This doesn't mean that everything bad that happens to us is our fault. Right?

For me it is a matter of perspective, I myself do not consider anything as "bad" that happens to me ..... and I also do not believe it is God testing me in one form or another .....

For me ..... if what the world considers as something bad happening in my life ..... I see it as the Father bringing something to my attention that I am holding to tightly too that needs to be let go ..... either something of this world (physical) or an understanding of what has been taught by men (spiritual).

Is it my fault that something bad happens ..... NEVER ..... for the Father is trying to teach or tell me something

  Amen !! :thumbsup:     do not despise the chastening of the Lord !!

  Hebrews 12 God Disciplines His Sons


4You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin;


5and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD,


NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;

6FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES."

Love is the reason we   receive correction   !!   :HeartThrob:       

[jugghead]

In which leads to Hebrews 12:7 ..... one of the verses He used before I had my experience

This is how I remember it (not sure which translation it was)

"Endure hardship as discipline for God is treating as a son for what son is not disciplined by his father."

It had a great impact on my life even before I started to go to church (religion) and then removed from religion.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: