How should behavioral effect factor into theology?

[Graph1159]

I raise this question because, I hear a lot of people defend or condemn doctrines based on the perceived effect that such doctrines would have on a person's life. For instance:

"Eternal Torment makes people vengeful"

"UR makes people irresponsible"

"Predestination makes people complacent"

"Free Will makes people self-righteous"

So, what role should such perceptions of our own lives, or the lives of others, play in our decisions about what is Biblical and what is not?

[Ross]

These statements, to me, are generalisations.
When lead to the actual truth, the imitations stand out.
Paul said in Galations that when he was blinded and shown the truth he then conferred with no one.
He said in Corinthians that Paul planted, Apollos watered, but God makes us grow.
The truth sets us free from bondage.

"UR makes people irresponsible" - Does it? Generalised maybe, reality no way- actually highlights depth of the plan.
"Predestination makes people complacent"" - could, but who can say why we are made, can the pot say to the potter? Predestination should again emphasise the work of Christ not man.
" Free Will makes people self-righteous"-  Many disputes with pros and cons. key question for me is;
   we get no say in the physical birth, yet develop our will and line of thinking; spiritual exceeds the physical. The will is within parameters in the physical, again should be within the spiritual parameter, just will develop to a greater level.

I.M.O the perceptions of man, which I used to rely, are now only there as a starter for the graduation from a higher course.
Christ said we are to call no one teacher, for we have one teacher. Hence, again I.M.O, we can now encourage each other, but still rely on Christ for the divine revelation which is incomparable to mans'.

[micah7:9]

 :thumbsup: :dsunny:

[rosered]

Amen  Ross !!!   :HeartThrob:

GOD  is doing a glorious thing !!!!, and no man knows       :sigh: left in the dust as  the serpents food ,, [ those religious leaders]   boasting in ,''your flesh''  the brood of vipers     the snakes of carnal wisdom , that are earthly sensual and devilish   , whited sepulchers/tombs FULL  of dead men's bones , those  whom they murdered and accused before God  day and night ... in ignorance /darkness and   knowing /day

Who can know the mind of the Lord ?

   1 Cor 2 Wisdom from the Spirit of God
...15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

Isaiah 40:13
Who can fathom the Spirit of the LORD, or instruct the LORD as his counselor?

Jeremiah 23:18
But which of them has stood in the council of the LORD to see or to hear his word? Who has listened and heard his word?

John 15:15
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

Romans 11:34
"Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?"

1 Corinthians 12:8
To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,

  Holy Spirit is the  teacher and comforter       of truth     ...   we worship the Father in Spirit and truth  [HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH] He is seeking those to worship Him ... now is the time    , Jesus spoke   this  WORD OF TRUTH    as it is written . :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

Amen!! the bread and the wine.. the Word(s) of God and the Spirit of God... all truth (and nothing but the truth! :banana: )

I raise this question because, I hear a lot of people defend or condemn doctrines based on the perceived effect that such doctrines would have on a person's life. For instance:

"Eternal Torment makes people vengeful"

"UR makes people irresponsible"

"Predestination makes people complacent"

"Free Will makes people self-righteous"

So, what role should such perceptions of our own lives, or the lives of others, play in our decisions about what is Biblical and what is not?

I agree with each of those.. except "UR makes people irresponsible" and "Predestination makes people complacent"
       :LH:


..as generalizations as Ross said...

I think it's good to apply logic and I like to apply it to doctrines. I think it helps to keep one grounded. Secure on the vine. I hear (well read) a lot of folks say "you just have to have faith" like blind faith. That's something I've never understood past the first five minutes of being saved. If that sounds boastful :eek:

"Predestination makes people complacent" ..I think it's more likely we wonder how the heck we made it in the group! Both U.R. and predestination does, I think allow us to be a little more gentler with ourselves, but also with others! But I'm thinking it's the power, magnetism and magnitude of God which straightens that out - if we get complacent. That in "the way" is the one rule we have. "Love God." ..In spirit and truth.. the bread and the wine.. my daily bread..

So too with the vengeful crowd! (tongue in cheek) I think doctrine (and education) does affect attitude and even behavior but those who actively draw near to God (the only source of goodness) the rough edges can be subdued. I think a lot more believers, deep down, believe there is universal redemption. [I also think atheists deep down know there is God. (But you always hurt the one you love.)

p.s - election.. maybe God just threw the dice.. like lights and those it lighted upon became living stones of His temple..

[Ross]

 " p.s - election.. maybe God just threw the dice.. like lights and those it lighted upon became living stones of His temple.. "

Allotment is interesting reading.
Seems to explain why there are so many lotteries going on in our society as a copy of the divine principle.
History records has how the Jews chose things by lot so that there was no way they could take credit for the important decisions.
Cuts inequality out of the picture nicely.
Also seems to be why we should not criticise those who were chosen by lot for dastardly deed , like Judas.
True compassion, for me, springs out when grasping that concept.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:   yes!  tickled meMarie..with..'how the heck we made it in the group!"   lights and perfection...urim and thummin.....

        the casting of the lot into the lap is of God.

[marie glen]

     :smile: Sheila..

        the casting of the lot into the lap is of God.

     :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

" p.s - election.. maybe God just threw the dice.. like lights and those it lighted upon became living stones of His temple.. "

Allotment is interesting reading.
Seems to explain why there are so many lotteries going on in our society as a copy of the divine principle.
History records has how the Jews chose things by lot so that there was no way they could take credit for the important decisions.
Cuts inequality out of the picture nicely.
Also seems to be why we should not criticise those who were chosen by lot for dastardly deed , like Judas.
True compassion, for me, springs out when grasping that concept.

    Amen!! And very well said!! :dsunny: :thumbsup:

[sheila]

 Praise the Lord, who as a shepherd following behind His sheep..says,whether you turn to the left or the right, 'This is the way,walk in it"

[sheila]

 you know...saviours arising on Mt Zion..are like the Holy spirit rising up in our brother's  and speaking the word's of Christ/shepherd

  [becoming just like their teacher] to deliver us from the wicked[way] at times.   amen?

[Seth]

I raise this question because, I hear a lot of people defend or condemn doctrines based on the perceived effect that such doctrines would have on a person's life. For instance:

"Eternal Torment makes people vengeful"

"UR makes people irresponsible"

"Predestination makes people complacent"

"Free Will makes people self-righteous"

So, what role should such perceptions of our own lives, or the lives of others, play in our decisions about what is Biblical and what is not?

If it's about what is Biblical, I don't think those perceptions should have any relevance. In fact, there is a logical fallacy called "appeal to consequences" which I think those statements fit right into with regard to determining what is Biblical truth or not.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_consequences

[Graph1159]

Thank you all for your replies; these are helpful insights. I agree that one's perceptions of the consequences of certain doctrines are often overgeneralized and narrow-focused.