Hope for the World

[marie glen]

Marie Glen

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I never heard that before! I have a book around here somewhere by her! Now I'm interested! ...Very beautiful!! :smile:

Gary has Hannah Whital Smith's missing chapters posted on this site somewhere...ahh, here it is- http://www.tentmaker.org/testimonials/ThirdEpochInMyLife.html
Her autobiography is called The Unselfishness of God...and she even named a chapter by that title as well. It is her crowning chapter which contains the testimony above, but the Publishers have decided in their "unbiased" opinion that the unselfishness of God is not something we want people to know about....so they leave out 3 chapters of her autobiography when they publish her book.
I hunted an original first edition(containing all her chapters) down and paid $500USD for it gladly..actually I paid it as a  protest against the spirit of selfishness that pervades the Church.

Wow!! Imagine that! Printing someone's work and leaving out parts you don't like! :o (shock and dismay!)
Thanks for the link! I will be reading that and saving the link! :smile:

...time to reveal the full gospel of peace to all nations. And an invitation to those who are hungry for the Kingdom of Jesus. I have a friend who now wants to go into the hi-ways and byways to give food and a short tract to those he meets. He wants to give them hope. I've been wanting just the right tract myself to give to people in our community who are falling through the cracks during this time of recession in Missouri. We have a lot of hurting people here. So does every community.

I hope those of you who feel you have a writing gift to take a crack at producing a short tract like this. Perhaps some of you who have graphics, printing, web skills may offer some help. And those of you who have time may find ways to get this tract and others out there into discussion board, blogs, youtube, facebook etc. I think it's time.

I think Gary's right..

I think all things are the way they are (even tho within His margins or borders) because God in His infinite wisdom, not only endowed thinking ability, which includes (sooner or later) the ability to make choices, but in His wisdom is, and has allowed mankind's choices to run their course.

What better way to prove His point? So human nature being what it is, the Message / Gospel has become diluted,
and even worse, corrupted!  :sigh: gulp

But also, UR, I think has been gathering steam and momentum.. I know quite a few people (especially for being such a semi/large part hermit). I know more non believers and ppl on the fence than I know believers. And I know your average person cannot believe the gospel as its delivered and preached! And not simply because they're sinners / "miss the mark", which can be a convenient scapegoat.. No it's because it [1] lacks logic and [2] really does compromise God's character (as preached).

But tell them U.R.? And they're nodding their heads. Printed things, I think, are great, especially with a good image to help communicate the point.. So people can remember the message! let's face it, darkness is pouring forth and insisting on its lies 24/7.. Yep, I think it's time..

I say that because I've been a bit 'in the closet' as they say.. But I'm coming out publicly much more so - on social networks, in christian forums.. and in life!

Years ago I sent home made tracts along with Christmas cards for a couple of years in a row. And I got good results. And now I think I will be doing that this year with the U.R. message. And just writing letters, when the Spirit moves.. And I really do think a facebook group would be great, but would perhaps need a whole group to start it.. rather than an individual and then scouting for members.. but some members and then maybe some scouting.. Twitter's a good place too, to post UR lines and links..
   :Peace2:

[Rhodes]

Great John. Yes I agree, and I was wrong to say that Paul did not preach UR. Of course the mystery revealed to him was what he had not been able to see as a Pharisee because of the narrowness of their view of God's love. Paul saw that Jesus took away the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile and men and women, that God's salvation is for all the families of the earth.
I guess I was reacting out of my own impatience with people who are still outside, though they are reconciled as far as God is concerned. I was reading Preston Eby again this morning where he said,

While men who understand nothing of the plan of God go rushing far and wide, desperately trying to convert the world before it is eternally too late, the almighty God in matchless serenity sits on His glorious throne, beholding with joy His on-going purpose of the ages as it develops in magnificent harmony, and sends forth His Spirit at just the proper time to call every man in his own order.

I guess that in our level of immaturity, where we are at, we will share with others our understanding of the Gospel, which may not be fully correct yet, but thankfully God is in our spirit and our words regardless, working according to His power and purpose for that one.
Mature me Oh Lord and give me understanding!

[eaglesway]

Yes indeed Lord, mature us :o)

As  I have watched how we as universalist(self included) can be so divided over the same things that ETrs are divided over it has of course become clearer than ever before that knowledge is not enough. The world will not receive our GOOD NEWS because we can teach it from 6 different theological perspectives. Only the Holy Spirit can cause the gospel to flourish in anytime and place. Come Holy Spirit!

[jabcat]

There may be much agreement in all this, but sort of a sorting through the nuances as is often the case :)/ looking at it from unique perspectives/different sides of the same coin.

Sometimes I'm a simple (simplistic) man (cue country song), and it may indeed involve more than I see right now;  but seems to me that basically the mystery of the Gospel (and HOPE for the World) as Paul preached it, was Jesus.  Jesus as Messiah, revealed - when in times past, had not been revealed, but hidden - thus a mystery.  So Paul was preaching "believe on Jesus" (grace) rather than "follow the Law" (works/rules/requirements).   :2c: 

Back to, in my view, the primary focus of the Gospel is Christ, crucified, risen again (as Paul says here

1 Cor. 15:1-4,

"Now I make known to you brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . ".

Then many other "outer" layers of it, which would include all right doctrine, including UR.  Another  :2c:.

But again, the "mystery" being Christ, who had been hidden prior to His advent.  (And a third  :2c:, which equals 6, the number of man - which may not be a good sign.   :Peace2: )

[Patinak]

Jabcat,

You are a wise and funny guy!

[jabcat]

Jabcat,

You are a wise and funny guy!

  :notworthy:

:handshake: 

[joeteekay]

Yes indeed Lord, mature us :o)

As  I have watched how we as universalist(self included) can be so divided over the same things that ETrs are divided over it has of course become clearer than ever before that knowledge is not enough. The world will not receive our GOOD NEWS because we can teach it from 6 different theological perspectives. Only the Holy Spirit can cause the gospel to flourish in anytime and place. Come Holy Spirit!

Exactly.  :gthumbsup:

[Patinak]

This thread was started to come up with a printed tract as a way to share the 'real' good news with others.

A couple of years ago, when I was on my knees, praying to God for my daughter's salvation, God answered my prayer (differently than I expected, of course), and brought me to the Tentmaker website.  There is no doubt in my mind that it was His doing.  How grateful I am for Gary and all of you others that put together and work and post on this site.  The unveiling of the 'real' good news has given me peace.  Without peace, it is impossible to obey His command to love others.  I KNOW THIS: I am just one small fraction of one small fraction of the people that are touched by this place.

I guess what I am trying to say is that although the work (of spreading the good news) never ends, there may not be a better tract, than this living tract.

Love,
Pat

[sheila]

whatever we 'bind' on earth is bound in heaven. the man/doctrine churches can bind men......and hold them back from the

the Glorious freedom of the Sons of God.  whatever you loose on earth..is loosed in heaven. Setting captives free from error

and missing the mark of the HIGH CALLING IN CHRIST...is  setting such free into the glorious freedom of the sons of God.

   Proclaim liberty in Christ to your brother's....


    manmade doctrines/error..are as tares...hay rubble wood...that is burned.  The angels..bind the tares into bundles for burning.

   manmade religiosity/error burned up by His spirit of truth......saves through fire. and sets free.

   three were thrown into the furnace of fire...and there was a fourth that appeared among them as a son of God....the fire

  burned that with which they were bound..........

          .

[Rhodes]

I re read this tract by Gary Amirault a few days ago I have a printed copy that came in a book I purchased. Tis a good word!

http://tentmaker.org/articles/adam_succeeded_will_christ.pdf

[Lorenzo]

I have been planning for a long time, but have never quite found the words, to write a short tract that I can post or give out about the Victorious Gospel. The tract would be an apology to the world on behalf of Christians; how the church has misrepresented Jesus Christ and His Victorious Gospel; an apology to the world for the suffering misguided Christians have heaped upon the world. A brief explanation of what happened, how the church steered in the wrong direction. A brief explanation of the Victorious Gospel using a string of Scriptures. A brief explanation how our Bibles have been corrupted. A brief explanation of why Jesus chose to hide the truly good news through this church age and how it's now time to reveal the full gospel of peace to all nations. And an invitation to those who are hungry for the Kingdom of Jesus. I have a friend who now wants to go into the hi-ways and byways to give food and a short tract to those he meets. He wants to give them hope. I've been wanting just the right tract myself to give to people in our community who are falling through the cracks during this time of recession in Missouri. We have a lot of hurting people here. So does every community.

I hope those of you who feel you have a writing gift to take a crack at producing a short tract like this. Perhaps some of you who have graphics, printing, web skills may offer some help. And those of you who have time may find ways to get this tract and others out there into discussion board, blogs, youtube, facebook etc. I think it's time.

I study Ancient Greek (it's the fourth year since I've started) at my school, both language and literature, best marks of all my classroom, if any help is needed, I'm here. I've also studied Hebrew, got a degree in Aramaic (30/30).
I like Church History as well, and I studied their doctrines during my philosophy studies at school. I have many books about this topic.
If you need any help, I'm here.

Hope you'll succeed (Though the only one who really succeeds is Christ).

[marie glen]

Amen, Sheila, Patinak, Jabcat.. Lorenszo.. and all!! Some great posts in this thread!!

I think many, many, people are seeking UR! And I also think many people are searching for good down to earth, solid truth. To answer their many questions they have about life. Like why is life as it is? And all the answers of course can come via God's Holy Spirit and God's Word, the Truth.

I have a strong conviction that like leaven, a little untruth leavens the lump and robs the truth of some of it convincing POWER. I also have a strong passion for truth and cannot rest until I feel I understand something.

I was never much taught by churches. The spirit of chuches just didn't seem to jive with the Lord's Spirit of flowing, outreaching, and embracing love. After 16 years of being pretty much a spiritual hermit, studying, learning and listening on my own (twenty years ago) my son asked me two questions. And those two questions changed my life. Even though I was a very solid believer already.

The questions he asked were - "Why was the tree of knowing good and evil in the garden?" and "Isn't it great, we get to be an ant farm?" (Oiye so cynical, and right where so many people are today!)

I was not satisfied with my answers to him, so I prayed for better understanding and answers and they came back to me immediately, pretty much like "bam!" ..bam! and bam! And I have to tell you, my socks were knocked off, and they've been knocked off ever since.

This is what I learned and am now convinced of.. The first thing being that God can only be perfect, therefor the 'end' result of all this (human history, etc) can onLy be the very best one possible. Also that God iS life, itself, the life force, breath, and spark of life, who, or what else could be? "In the beginning - God." (And also Perfection, or He too would fade.)

Before He began His work of creating He could see all possibilities stretched out before his perception, and He has done all things, just the way He has in order to bring about the best of all possibilities.

He chose to endow thinking ability. But with thinking ability, comes, sooner or later, the ability to make choices. (Even if currently they are so very limited.) Yet, if God is Life and Perfection, as soon as someone chooses any teeny, tiny thing in thought, word or deed, that differs from what God chooses, they become imperfect, the opposite of life. Hence the world and life as we presently know it. When He endowed thinking ability to angel and man, a whole new world (or tree) of possibilites 'came to be'. (But what was His other choice? No rational creatures ever?)

Ever since then, all have suffered. And some horribly. But God -- being life -- lives through, suffers and experiences aLL sufferings which ever occur. Why(?) would He put Himself through all that!! Because He's not making robots, or an ant farm, but His very own family, and an eternally un-breakable paradise. Unbreakable, because deeply etched upon every heart, mind, and psyche, will be the full understanding of good from evil / life from death. (Life from nonlife.) With the GWT judgment 'day' being a Great Day of Review (of all human history, etc) reinforcing and driving home God's truth lesson (proved by this drama we call life).

This chewing on the fruit of knowing good from evil is an unavoidable journey and lesson. If there's to be thinking ability that is.

The whole thing ended with a question (to me, it seemed). Why did God wait so long - He is infinitely patient - before creating the universe and man and woman, only creating them not only after the first bound-to-occur rebel thought occurred, but after it had matured into open revolt, trickery and sedition? Didn't He know what would happen? Of course He did!

Surely God wastes nothing and He is writing and shall write (deeply engrave) upon every heart and mind, the full and complete understanding that one cannot wander from God. For that can only ever end in a wisp of self destructive smoke. This being what apocalypse is, for the fall (crash and burn, so to speak) unveils the truth. Many people instinctively know man's world is headed for trouble/apocalypse. And many of the questions thay have, very much, include this.

Along with UR, understanding how life became what it is (rather than thinking it merely proceeded from a less than kind, or even heartless, God) and understanding His intent and life's purpose (the Kingdom of God, much mentioned by Jesus, in us yes, but surely, also outer) - His Great Purpose/Design - very much sets people free. And gives a great sense of stability and roots with a very solid foundation underfoot.

I guess I have this idea that the whole truth and nothing but truth -  could go a long way in making UR go viral. ... :2c: :smile:

God bless!!

[Eduard]

God bless all of you! For me, this place is a great scurce of hope.  :dsunny:

[joeteekay]

 :thumbsup:

[rosered]

 :2thumbs:    :HeartThrob:

[strainerofcamels]

Great thread.

"Let your light shine..."  In other words, Gary go forward with what's in your heart, God will have select others assist with whatever He intends to accomplish. Such good stuff. Reading all this I recalled that it was thru tentmaker I was initially confronted with UR 7 years ago... a tract can be a small seed, and sometimes that is all that's needed.

Personally, I get excited by the idea that as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive".  I was sick to death of religious knowledge and God brought me to face my own beliefs which culminated in the statement "if you started this whole mess and then have the audacity to eternally condemn most of your creation who died through adam, then I want nothing to do with a God like that." I'm sure many here may have a similar story but the point is it was a very scary place to be, and this truth is more than just a nod to a doctrine for me. It is my freedom and joy, and I believe the eventual joy of the whole world as well.

So many good things in the thread. But still all different points of light as thru a prism. The light of your desire can be parsed into different aspects, all good and all with merit, but shine the light. Your light. His light in you. I for one can say it has blessed me personally and been used to bring Grace and life. So thank you! :) and pursue that spark of life planted within.

Cory in kzoo

[marie glen]

What a  :goodpost: :goodpost: Cory in kzoo! :dsunny:

...and Eduard too!

Awesome confirmation for this site and forum too..

[eaglesway]

This a tract I wrote a while ago for the purpose of introducing UR. I wrote it mainly for people with some fundamental knowledge according to basic contemporay Christian religion, just to get a person looking in the right direction in the scriptures. It might be too long for a typical tract, but it is shorter than a booklet, and I tried to write in a style that is conversational, slightly humourous and not factually intimidating.

Dead Is Not Normal

To hear most folks talk, you would think that for a man to be dead is "normal". It is "the way it is", it is "the way it always was", and it is "the way it always will be".

This would be no surprise from unbelievers. Lost here in this dark world of chaos and confusion. But when a person comes into the faith of Jesus Christ they should be taught that death is not normal. In the beginning, Adam was not "created dead". The human race was created alive, with a life that had the potential of extremely long, perhaps even endless duration.

People have a very difficult time with the idea that the "normal" perspective in a Christian life ought to be the perspective of an endless life, but Jesus said "He that believes in me, tho he die, yet shall he live". and "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever". Paul said, "If anyone is in Christ Jesus he is a new creation. Old things have passed away. Behold(see, comprehend), all things have become new!"

My, My, My.

Christians have a hard time believing that it is "normal" that everyone could live forever, yet they have no problem believing that most people will "die forever" in a lake of fire, an endless "second death"- awaiting them when they awake from slumber to face the One who created them so He could torment them forever and ever.

You may think me extreme or perhaps even sacriligeous, but I assure you I am not!

Jesus Christ is My Lord! He died for me and I believe God raised him from the dead and HE LIVES!

But I don't believe the plan of God ends with most of humanity in eternal torment.

Think about it. Any discomfort that that lasts forever in unconscionable. Remember that back ache? When you threw out your sacroiliac? After a week of agony when you moved and only misery when you lay still, you screamed inside your head for God to have mercy -or just kill you. Remember that horrible flu bug? You threw your guts up for three days and wanted to die. Well that was nothing.

Imagine 10 billion years with one hand in a fire. Now your whole body. Oh yeah, you are next to Grandma(who was Jewish what a shame) and your nephew Louie(died in a car accident at 18, shouldna been drinking.....Thats the breaks!) Grandma got 84 years to get Christ (but didn't) and Louie only got 18- can you feature that? Boy, God is an arbitrary master, you know? Almost a trickster- and you kno what? I've heard some preachers say God plans who is going to fail and be tormented forever BEFORE HE EVER CREATES THEM WITHIN THEIR MOTHERS WOMB!

Whew!, I'll tell ya. You better not make the wrong turn or even believe the wrong thing or you might find out what endless agony is! I even heard some other preachers say that God can't do anything about billions of His children going to hell forever. They say God put a lock and key on His own hands and put these on limits His own plan, because He so respects our independent will(But yet, He did plan it that way knowing how it would turn out, didnt He?).

The story is He so wants us to want Him on our own, that He would rather see us scream forever in a boiling lake of lava, slidin over one another, man woman and child....Screaming like they were on a roller coaster full of zombies in the middle of the Great San Francisco Fire before tumbling through the Great San Andreas fault into the depths of a molten earth.

Funny that word fault. Does the word fault imply a crack in something or is it a crack in something that creates faults. I mean, if I am cracked am I at fault? Or is the crack my fault? or, or, Wowo I am getting confused like a kid who's been spinning in a teacup ride for 16 thousand years. Whew, talk about dry heaves. Threw up all my insides and now, ten thousand years later, nothing but lava comes out. Whehew! Talk about heartburn!


Really. Is that God?  Somebody should ask, "What Would Jesus Do about all those souls in torment, leave them forever? I mean, I thought He said "I didnt come to judge the world, I came to save it."

FAIL.

I thought, "God so loved the world".

I thought Jesus said, "If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me!"

I thought He prayed as they killed Him(C'mon, killing the son of God- it doesn't get much worse than that!), "Father forgive them they dont know what they are doing".

But still many think He only forgives the people who love Him. Hmmmm. These thoughts raise some serious conundrums

Maybe dead IS normal and Christianity is just a lie.  Anybody who can tell me to love my enemies and to bless those that call me names and do hurtful things to me, but then turns around and torments all His enemies in a lake of fire forever and forever is really NOBODY I WANT TO KNOW, and I will tell you what!

If the only thing that will keep me outta Hell is being afraid of Hell- it aint gonna work! Because I am not nearly as afraid of Hell as I am of a schizophrenic God who will torture billions in Hell forever after telling the whole world that He is LOVE, and He is LIGHT and that anybody who wants to be like Him has to love, forgive and feed their enemies!

The Jesus I want to believe in- He wouldnt just sit by and watch, knowing EVERYTHING THROUGH AND THROUGH LIKE HE DOES, and let us, WHO ARE ONLY THERE BY HIS MERCY IN THE FIRST PLACE watch too, while most of the people who ever lived in the world (yea a whole lot of evil people but also a whole lot of just stupid ignorant folks who were born in some backwoods era before Jesus was even BORN) are screaming and begging for mercy and a chance to get right.

I mean, that is hard. Real hard. Wouldnt wish that on my worst enemy. Really.

But I was thinkin about this. I have been readin the Bible and it says some strange things. The Bible says ..... GOD IS LOVE. Yes it does, right there in one of the letters of John, that sweet little guy the Lord loved so much. The Bible also says, GOD IS LIGHT AND IN HIM THERE IS NO DARKNESS AT ALL. Yep, John says that too and he also says "if any man hates his brother he is in darkness still....". How could leaving billions in torment foever be considered anything other than hate?

Someone may counter with, "FOR OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE!"

So how can God be all three things! Well, this is what I'm thinkin.....

If God is love and love is light and light is fire and hate is darkness and God told us to forgive our enemies and bless them, then maybe LOVE IS THE LIGHT AND THE LIGHT OF LOVE IS A FIRE THAT BURNS UP THE SELFISH DARKNESS IN FOLKS UNTIL THEY FINALLY RECEIVE THE LIGHT TOO- AND "GET IT"! Just like all we, who know we were once sinners but have through grace(unmerited favor), been forgiven and transformed.

Translated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His glorious light.

My Bible says

Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,  so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Now, we have been told that all the billions who hated him or just didnt believe Him or just never heard of Him are gonna bow down just before they get thrown into the lake of fire.... You know, a sort of cosmic eternal, "I TOLD YOU SO" from God before He throws them into the everlasting pain of an eternity of agonizing unending death.....(so much for respecting our independent will). We've been told that not everyone can live forever, but everyone can "die forever".

But my Bible says, "For as in Adam ALL die, so also in Christ ALL will be made alive."

And I am not kiddin you! It is right there in 1 Cor 15:22. Then it goes on to say that God- after He has subjected every adversary(subjected means to bow the knee, does it not?), He will destroy death, because death is the last enemy, and that then He will become ALL IN ALL! That means everything in everyone, including those who were formerly His adversaries....You know, Like WE were ALSO once formerly His adversaries.

Well some folks say that all the enemies can't be subjected and that can't be true because it is too good to be true, but that is what the Bible says-  and I think thats why they call it the GOOD NEWS! There are other verses that say this same thing!

Look here, and read it carefully please .....

For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.(Col 1)

And here....


In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.(Eph 1:9-11)

Now, as I read it I get the idea that there is a mystery to be solved here. So I set about solving it, and I found a few things. I read a few things. And I was given a few insights by others who sought the answer to this mystery before me.

God's purpose in Christ is a "kind intention".

His master plan unfolds over the "fulness of times"- meaning 1)all the ages that went before, 2)this age we are in now, and 3)ages that are to come, like the "millienial age"(or whatever, we dont kno all the details, but Paul says there will be "ages to come", you can read that in Ephesians 2:7).

And Paul says this mystery is one that God HAS ALREADY SHOWN US (but we wasnt all lookin) and Paul calls it THE SUMMING UP OF EVERYTHING(and that includes everyone) IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH in Jesus Christ. Why, even the old King James calls it "the gathering together into one of ALL things in Christ"(Eph 1;9-11)

Well, let's sum it up my friend!....The word of God helps us solve mysteries, but some mysteries can be difficult to see through, especially God's mysteries. That is why Jesus said something like, "I will speak to you in parables and show you mysteries hidden from the foundation of the world so that people that think they see wont be able to see and those who know they are blind can learn something that is hiddden from kno-it-alls"

Well ok, that is what I think they call a paraphrase, but anyway read it yourself. You will get the idea.

And I kno a lot of preachers want us to think they know everything(at least everything we need them to tell us so we will know just what they want us to know)- but listen to this and tell me what YOU think.

"For God has shut up ALL in disobedience so that He may show mercy to ALL.

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are ALL things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

Well now, how can all things be from Him and through Him AND TO HIM.....one big ol circle..... If the circle gets stopped dead in its tracks in an eternal hell?

Will the circle, be unbroken by and by Lord, by and by..... :o)

Well, I dont know too much but I know one plus one equalls two and ALL is ALL or ALL aint ALL and there are a Hell of a lot of ALLs in these verses........... OOPS! Did I say Hell?

Well thats one very mistranslated word, and it isn't even scripturally real. Sheol yes! 53 times. Gehenna yes! 11 times. The lake of fire Yes! 2 times. Hell No! (oops, there I said it again).

There was no Hell till King James got hold of the Bible. They talked funny back in merry ol England and cut each others heads off over what each other believed differently -just like their Danish, Viking, Celt and Angle forefathers did before them....O yea, By the way, Hel was the goddes of death among the Vikings and thats where the word came from.

King James, He had a crown to keep, but me, I am just a simple man.

I have been summin it up in my mind, and when I read this.....


And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making ALL things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

............What I come up with is that the lake of fire was prepared make people thirsty for living water. Come on now. It is not that crazy. We already read that death is going to be destroyed when the last adversaries are all subjected in 1 Corinthians 15!

Now we have all done some bad things that one time or another. The Bible states this and we mostly all believe it. And I have had the fire of God get on me about some of those things, and it is no joke! And I know that it sounds real bad. Indeed! It can get real bad if you get real stubborn when God is tryin to turn the lights on. It is better to fess up and be washed in the blood of the Lamb now, everyday, and learn to live in love, like Jesus. "No greater love has a man than to lay down His life for His friends."

When the light shines so bright it begins to get into all the cracks(or faults, or whatever) and starts to blow away all those lies and to dig up and expose all that hate and all those murders that were done in hearts without guns and all those prejudices and all that indifference to the suffering of the world's helpless and all that egoin', preening, self-important know-it-all posturing.....It is a fire to darkness, sin and selfishness.

When God punishes it may get ugly for awhile, but He is a Father, and His judgments are for our correctin. He will not just destroy His creation and watch it suffer forever, so if Jesus says "Behold, I am making ALL THINGS NEW!", then I gotta believe Him! I gotta believe that EVERY KNEE WILL BOW and EVERY TONGUE CONFESS the Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father..... and then they will be shining in the light of that fire with their darknesses all burnt up by the intensity of the love and light of God. What would God gain if they, full of hate and resentment, are cast into eternal torment. That wouldn't be "To the glory of God the Father". Would it? What do you think? God gave you a brain didn't He? And the evidence to the contrary is all over the Bible. But we only have a few minutes here so....

Listen, if God is love and God is light and the light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it then light is fire to darkness and it will be the darkness in people that got burned up in the lake of fire, or gehenna, or hell or whatever you wanna call it..... But God cant torment a bunch of folk forever and at the same time gather all things together into one in Christ..... And then Jesus can't gather all men unto Him and make all things new! So then what good would the bible be if you cant believe all those verses? Do you think Jesus was careless with His words? Was Paul? I noticed in Phil 2:9-11 it says every knee will bow ON EARTH, and UNDER THE EARTH and IN HEAVEN- and I think thats everything! The Bible says that in Ephesians 1 and Colossians 1 too!

So,

I dont think bein dead is normal. And I dont think being dead will last forever. And God did not create us dead.....Jesus said God is the God of the living- so how is He gonna be the God of all those folks- if they are like the walkin dead, for ever in the second death, or Hell, or the lake of fire, or whatever.

I tell you what, I think I will take Jesus' word for it, and believe Him!

IF I BE LIFTED UP FROM THE EARTH I WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME!

FATHER FORGIVE THEM THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!

BEHOLD, I AM MAKING ALL THINGS NEW!


Sounds like the Good News Paul and Isaiah and Jesus taught. Oh yeah and there is the angel who appeared to the shepherds to announce the coming of the King...

"Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night. And behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were greatly afraid. Then the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to ALL people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling cloths, lying in a manger."

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying:

"Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"

Now that sounds like that "kind intention" Paul was talking about as "the mystery" in Ephesian 1. And I think John saw it fulfilled in the revelation he received from Jesus..... Listen as you read this.

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice:

"Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!"
And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

"Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

Now that is every tongue confessing that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father!

Well, I went and I told my old preacher about all this summin up I been doin.

He told me I was goin to bust Hell w-i-i-i-d-e open!

Oh well, I guess wherever I go I will be in good company because I think Paul and John learned from Jesus and I think Jesus believed He came to save the whole universe. They all taught that in the end we will definitely all be together and God will be ALL IN ALL. As Paul wrote to the believers at Rome, "For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be the glory forever, amen".

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. For "He has put all things under His feet."But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. 1 Cor 15:25-28

[rosered]

  Great post John !, well worth the read!!   God has truly  blessed you  !,  Where there is love , there is Life    ! :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

I agree with Rose.. and my favorite part was "light and love being the fire that burns away (consumes) all darkness and selfishness"!

And I'm a great fan of logic.. I would think it alone would convince the staunchest hell believer.. And all the verses nail it securely in place! :thumbsup:  :banana:

[eaglesway]

Thanks! I hope some one will spread it around. I edited all the typos and the butchered sentences today.

[Dandelion]

Magnificent, EW!

Love the perspective!

Maybe post this one and the one you did before it on your own website for now?

I am sure it will be very useful.

:cloud9:

[Eduard]

Yes! That post was just what I was talking about.  :iagree:  :iagree:  :gimmefive:  :dsunny:

[marie glen]

More and more I've been thinking of putting U.R. (and other Biblical things) in images. One of my latest is an image outlining the ancient Hebrew holy days, and how (in my opinion) they prophecy the two advents of Jesus.

I thought it turned out okay! ..so I thought I'd post it here as an idea on how images can communicate.. and be passed along on social media.. etc.

But you have to scroll down to the 2nd image.. and click on it to enlarge
http://gospel-truth4all.blogspot.com/2016/01/his-great-plan-of-salvation.html

:Peace2: later!

[Dandelion]

Hi Gary....

Here is another Bible verses that I believe might be helpful:

Philippians 1:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

I don't think it was mentioned here, yet.

D.