Experiencing the New Birth When You Were Raised as a Christian

[Graph1159]

Thank you all for your recent replies. Belief in the baptism of the Holy Ghost is something that I should put more focus on. The baptism of the Holy Ghost is a concept that for a while I was not sure what to do with because I thought it always involved immediately speaking in tongues or having some immediate advance in spiritual experience. But I believe you all are right that it is a process that we have to receive by faith and trust in God to work out.

This is an idea that I have had recently, and your comments have given me more assurance that I am heading in the right direction!

[Aerex]

I have a very hard time believing in this speaking in tongues thing that is so prominent in charismatic group such as the Pentecostal denomination.  The reason why I doubt this is because I don't see any practical reason behind this. To me it is just nonsensical gibberish, no offense.

My step mother is a Pentecostal and she can told me that she basically prayed for hours to receive this. Sorry I am just not going to do that. I have searched the scriptures and found no instance of anyone speaking in any strange language. Cardinal or whoever believes in glossolalia explain to me through scriptures why they believed it is from God and not from man?

[GodIsLove]

Aerex,
I also doubt speaking in tongues because to me, on Pentecost, speaking in tongues had a purpose (people heard them speaking in their language and therefore heard the gospel. So speaking in tongues while alone or in a church filled with English speakers seems to not make sense. I do believe in baptism of the Holy Spirit because it is spoken about in the bible. I pray for the Holy Spirit to dwell within me and guide me. But like I said before, I also think this is a stumbling block for people who feel like they aren't praying hard enough, or good enough in the eyes of God, or maybe aren't truly saved, unless they have the outward sign (praying in tongues, groaning, falling down).

[GodIsLove]

Graph, yes to me it has been a process. It is a constant reaching out to God, seeking, and then a moment where I feel I have advanced, so to speak, on my journey. It is a shedding of old ways and old thoughts and gaining new. It is fighting the urge to trust yourself and instead trusting God. It is discerning what comes from God and what is from man/Satan. It is learning to love in a fuller and purer way. Seeing Jesus in the least of our brothers and sisters, shedding attachments to the material world. It's a dying and being reborn as metamorphosis.

[sheila]

1 Cor 12;30 and 13;1  do all have gifts of healing? do all speak in tongues?    IF  I speak in the tongues of MEN and of ANGELS,

but have NOT love..I am a resounding gong or clanging cymbal.

  like everything else...sinful men have twisted God's good provisions.  some religions deny that someone has recieved the Holy spirit

unless they see an exhibition of speaking in tongues...thus judging and setting their brother's at nought. and then other's err

and say there is no tongue of angel's[and set at naught their brother's]  So,as always..a little evil destroys much good....


    God confused the tongues at Babels tower...pure language/communication is truth spoken in love.  In Rev 13;7 the beast

  is given power to utter proud words and blasphemies..given authority over every tribe,people,TONGUE and nation...I see this

as sins law dwelling in the flesh..that exchanges the glory of God.   WORD of love and truth..for lies and pride


    now,I was in a religion that taught speaking in tongues was a deception of the devil....and no doubt....the beast was given

  that authority.   Blessings and curses can come in any language of man or angel[satan's or God's]  Truth or lies can be spoken

in every language....along with a motive to decieve and kill..or to speak truth in love and save.

  one speaking in tongues in the congregation...if there be no interpreter should be quiet.  All God's gift's of the Holy spirit are

for edification of the body...not tearing down.  Satan will twist it for tearing down.   

  A woman of wisdom will build up her household...a foolish woman tears it down.


   love to you all... :HeartThrob:

[bushy]

Thank you Sheila,

I think it is wrong to go after an experience like it is the magic pill that will boost us to spiritual maturity. Personally I, like everyone here has had many special high points in spiritual experience but none quite matched the classic 'baptism in HS', at least like I've seen in others. And I've known others very close to me that spent most of their life trying for that special experience and never finding it. It is just another division between the haves and the have nots.

"You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." Forget searching for an experience. IMO.  :HeartThrob:

[Ross]

Indeed- three things remain; faith, hope and love.
The greatest of these is love.

Speaking in tongues without demonstrating love and being clear to others is not spiritually correct. Paul warns of that when he says speaking 5 clear words is better than copious words which mean nothing to the hearer.

[micah7:9]

Thank you Sheila,

I think it is wrong to go after an experience like it is the magic pill that will boost us to spiritual maturity. Personally I, like everyone here has had many special high points in spiritual experience but none quite matched the classic 'baptism in HS', at least like I've seen in others. And I've known others very close to me that spent most of their life trying for that special experience and never finding it. It is just another division between the haves and the have nots.

"You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." Forget searching for an experience. IMO.  :HeartThrob:

My question, where in the Bible does it say "speaking in tongues (languages") is the evidence that one has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

As far as I have found this experience came from the Azusa street meeting, which in turn brought forth another denomination the Assemblies of God....Pentecostal. I suggest also that Azusa street was an experience that was from the Lord, but as always with mankind the episode created more idols of the heart.

Luk 3:16  John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

The way I understand, when the Holy Spirit baptizes it is with FIRE and the WORK of FIRE is to consume, that FIRE is judgment, damnation, condemnation all of which bring trials where decisions must be made, a tribunal with each of us, where through the Holy Spirit we are given to distinguish, good from evil, right from wrong, to mature in Christ and Christ in us.
Php 2:13  for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

When a person is brought to repentance(a change of mind) the Holy Spirit is there to begin it's work....FIRE.....and you will KNOW.
:2c: :dsunny:

[Ross]

"When a person is brought to repentance(a change of mind) the Holy Spirit is there to begin it's work....FIRE.....and you will KNOW."

Amen!!
God is not wishy washy, but rather, precise.

" The way I understand, when the Holy Spirit baptizes it is with FIRE and the WORK of FIRE is to consume, that FIRE is judgment, damnation, condemnation all of which bring trials where decisions must be made, a tribunal with each of us, where through the Holy Spirit we are given to distinguish, good from evil, right from wrong, to mature in Christ and Christ in us.
Php 2:13  for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure."


I.M.O isn't this the purification process which is part of learning from a secure position In Christ. In other words one has gone through the judgment and seated next to Christ, and literally going through the change and development of character. Eph 3;1-4

[eaglesway]

 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. 7 He touched my mouth with it and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven."