a small but deep difference in translating Matthew 25:46 once more

[anti_nietzsche]

Hello again, while checking translations of Matthew from the original greek into the modern english, I have found another part that makes an UR outcome in the judgment of God very probable.

NIV:
Matt 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

CLV:
46 And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."

Both of these translations have an "away" in them that the original greek is not mandating. It is more like that everyone goes forward, there is no "going away" in the greek. And eon here should be best translated as "world".

So, to translate it better, I might try it like this.

"Then they will go forward into the chastening of the world/age to come, yet the just into the life of the world/age to come."

This means something very different from an ET outcome. It means that those who get condemned will also partake in the life to come, only they will frequently be chastened by the memory of their bad deeds. While the righteous will find that life is more beautiful to them than to the condemned. In fact I would argue that it will be a job of the righteous to take care of the condemned speaking forgiveness to them, forgiveness not just from God but also from them who had suffered at the hands of the unrighteous in this life.

Another reason to say and mean the forgiveness part in the Lord's prayer. And to remember the parable of the shrewd manager too!

[Aerex]

This is very interesting. I hope this is the case. I never understood what the lake of fire really meant physically. I know it is chastisement but how that plays out I am not entirely sure.

[anti_nietzsche]

I think God will exercise a spiritual punishment, not a literal, bodily one. Remember Matthew 25. There is a difference between those who are merciful to whoever is needy, and those who maintain a stony heart to them. At the Day of Judgment, God will judge a few people to have been entirely unmerciful and these people in their spirit will have to live with that guilt throughout eternity. And exactly this our having to live with our guilt will be our chastening in the world to come. Imagine Hitler in Heaven now ... he has to live with having lived a dark and satanic life that caused the death of many people and many women becoming widows. God does not throw him in hell but he has to live with that guilt. I think in Heaven the people try to help each other with the guilt things. There is no cheap forgiveness but instead a steady and reliable forgiveness and that after death we won't sin so gruesomely anymore. There are only small mistakes there now, and there are angels and God Himself who keep watch!

[marie glen]

..amen! (imo)

"Then they will go forward into the chastening of the world/age to come, yet the just into the life of the world/age to come."

..Then they will go forward into the chastening of the world, in the age (of judgment 'day') to come, yet the just into the life.. of that age.. the difference between the 1st resurrection and the 2nd-which will 'catch up' with the first (imo:)

imho, will be fulfilled like the spring feasts were - Trumpets - 1O days/1OOO years later - DOA-day of atonement for the doa-dead on arrival/"still in their sins" - 5 days/5OO years later - TABERNACLES-all in all, all made new and

"whatsoever soul (life) will not afflict their soul on that day will be cut off from their people" Lev 23:29 (day of atonement, weeping, gnashing of teeth, outer darkness, facing the pure and holy radiant face of God still in ones sins/ was the annual day of repentance, forgiveness and reconciliation)

"whosoever's name is not" (by end of that 'day') "written in the Book of Life, will go to the aionian LOF."

1 Corinthians 15:22-27 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

"22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence," (and coming)
"24 then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --
25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
26 the last enemy is done away -- death;
27 for all things He did put under his feet.."

New International Version (NIV)

"22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death."

from Revelation 20:5,12,13,21:1-6 - Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

"5 and the rest of the dead did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this [is] the first rising again.. ...And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened.. 13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades" (the grave/place of the dead not risen in the first rising) "did give up the dead in them...
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more;
2 and I, John, saw the holy city -- new Jerusalem -- coming down from God out of the heaven, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband;
3 and I heard a great voice out of the heaven, saying, `Lo, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and He will tabernacle with them, and they shall be His peoples, and God Himself shall be with them -- their God,
4 and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and the death shall not be any more, nor sorrow, nor crying, nor shall there be any more pain, because the first things did go away.'
5 And He who is sitting upon the throne said, `Lo, new I make all things; and He saith to me, `Write, because these words are true and stedfast;'
6 and He said to me, `It hath been done!" (It is done:) :gimmefive:

("All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD" Ps 22:27)

[Lorenzo]

Well, I understand your point, but I think the word "away" is not completely wrong. The verb is "apeleusontai", which is made of "ap-" (preposition "apo" with apocope) and "eleusontai", which is the future tense of the verb "erchomai". "Apo" means "from, away from", so it is not wrong to say "to go away". Anyway, this doesn't mean "away from the Lord", but just "away", so they might just be less close to Jesus than the saints.
Furthermore, let me say I'd rather say "into correction of ages and [...] life of ages" (eis kolasin aionion [...] zoen aionion), because I do believe that the first christians used it as related to the world to come, but it is also true that the word itself means "pertaining to ages".
Anyway, it's an interesting point! Keep working, and don't forget to tell us what you'll have discovered!

[marie glen]

It's interesting to me how the word in that verse, for punishment (KJ) "kolasis" (strong's 2851) is from the root "kolazo" (2849) "to curtail"