How to respond to the following arguments in support of ET

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Hello all,

I was just reading an article about Rob Bell, (an ex pastor who got kicked out do to his believe in UR). As you can all imagine, the comments for the article are flooded with anti UR sentiments. Below are some of the popular comments on the article. How would you all respond? The link to the article is also posted below.

Top Comment A:

2 Tim 4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Comment B:

"God is love.....He is the loving father who loves us BEFORE we choose Him. Our choice of Him through Jesus Christ...opens the path for that love to be two-way communion. As we spend time with Him (we call this prayer)...His very nature lives inside us and begins to transform us from the inside outward as we surrender each part of ourselves to his loving care. That is the transformation and the healing.

Similarly...their is also the possibility that we will NOT choose to receive Him... When we ignore Him....we are not restored/renewed from the inside out... We remain the broken twisted things that follow their nature into increased implosion (death in scripture)... Hell....is a place where those who refuse God's freely given healing love...his abiding presence inside...Hell is the place where they choose to spend eternity... Yes it is punishment...not by a hateful God....but by those who have chosen to be the depraved/debauched monstrosities that occur when the broken debauched nature of unredeemed humans is fully realized..."

Comment C:
"You're attempt to rationalize God's ways is an attempt to place yourself above Him." (he seemed to be responding to another UR supporter).

Comment D:
Sheol is "the grave," and all the dead seemed to go there before Christ. But no torment? Not according to Jesus, and Jesus is the one we need to listen to. He described a Sheol divided by a great chasm, with one side presenting comfort and the the other side giving torment. Whatever it was called, Jesus described torment, gnashing of teeth, weeping, unquenchable fire, destruction. Lake of Fire, burning forever, in Revelation. Hell is absolutely a Biblical teaching.

Comment E:
Sinners talking themselves into Hell is quite common today. To anyone that can READ the Authorized Holy Bible, your entire comment is a joke. In fact, your statements about the Authorized Holy Bible being inaccurate shows you are merely running from the clear teaching of scripture. Hell is not a "Christian concept"; Christ said it was a REALITY (Mark 9:43-48); so did John the apostle (Revelation 14:9-11; 21:8). Only a fool rejects God's plain warnings about His wrath (Romans 1:18) and ignores His judgment upon sinners in the past (Jude 7). Where ever you read the junk you spewed in this forum, it will be in Hell with you unless you repent and trust Christ.

Here is the article
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/07/28/ex-pastor-who-ignited-evangelical-furor-when-he-questioned-ideas-about-the-afterlife-explains-why-he-doesnt-believe-god-would-burn-people-in-hell-for-eternity/

[Lazarus Short]

Top Comment A:
2 Tim 4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Laz sez:
Folks don't stop to realize that UR does NOT have a "great number of teachers."  They need to examine themselves. for nowadays are no different from the days of Jesus, when few could see themselves in His parables.  There are gobs of itching ears ready to hear what people such as Mary Baxter has to say.

Comment B:
Similarly...their is also the possibility that we will NOT choose to receive Him... When we ignore Him....we are not restored/renewed from the inside out... We remain the broken twisted things that follow their nature into increased implosion (death in scripture)... Hell....is a place where those who refuse God's freely given healing love...his abiding presence inside...Hell is the place where they choose to spend eternity... Yes it is punishment...not by a hateful God....but by those who have chosen to be the depraved/debauched monstrosities that occur when the broken debauched nature of unredeemed humans is fully realized...

Laz sez:
Every bit of the above is someone's theory.  There is not a shred of Biblical proof.  End.

Comment C:
"You're attempt to rationalize God's ways is an attempt to place yourself above Him." (he seemed to be responding to another UR supporter).

Laz sez:
Oh?  But we don't indulge in outright half-pagan fiction like Dante, or not-quite-so-pagan fiction like Milton or Baxter.

Comment D:
Sheol is "the grave," and all the dead seemed to go there before Christ. But no torment? Not according to Jesus, and Jesus is the one we need to listen to. He described a Sheol divided by a great chasm, with one side presenting comfort and the the other side giving torment. Whatever it was called, Jesus described torment, gnashing of teeth, weeping, unquenchable fire, destruction. Lake of Fire, burning forever, in Revelation. Hell is absolutely a Biblical teaching.

Laz sez:
Yes, sheol is the grave.  But when God made the cosmos (Genesis 1:1) He claims only to have made heaven and earth, not Hell.  Further, John 1:3 states that if God did not, then no one else did either.  The no-Hell theory fits more scriptures than the Hell theory.

Comment E:
Sinners talking themselves into Hell is quite common today. To anyone that can READ the Authorized Holy Bible, your entire comment is a joke. In fact, your statements about the Authorized Holy Bible being inaccurate shows you are merely running from the clear teaching of scripture. Hell is not a "Christian concept"; Christ said it was a REALITY (Mark 9:43-48); so did John the apostle (Revelation 14:9-11; 21:8). Only a fool rejects God's plain warnings about His wrath (Romans 1:18) and ignores His judgment upon sinners in the past (Jude 7). Where ever you read the junk you spewed in this forum, it will be in Hell with you unless you repent and trust Christ.

Laz sez:
Sounds like someone has made the KJV into an idol.

[marie glen]

hi! :hiya: I love a good quiz!

Top Comment A:

2 Tim 4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

--- first thing comes to my mind is man's theory of evolution which says man is the higher power.. i.e. 'god' among all manner of strange things (teachings and ideas) in the world..

Comment B:

"...Similarly…their is also the possibility that we will NOT choose to receive Him… When we ignore Him….we are not restored/renewed from the inside out… We remain the broken twisted things that follow their nature into increased implosion (death in scripture)… Hell….is a place where those who refuse God's freely given healing love…his abiding presence inside…Hell is the place where they choose to spend eternity… Yes it is punishment…not by a hateful God….but by those who have chosen to be the depraved/debauched monstrosities that occur when the broken debauched nature of unredeemed humans is fully realized…"

--- Hmmm, God sure sounds un-able.
...er, what about all those who never heard the gospel? What if any one of us (believers) had died before (supposedly) 'making the choice for Jesus'? But beyond all that, the Word says "you did not choose Me but I chose you.." ..."foreordained.." etc. "He chooses who He will and hardens whom He will.." And please, show me the verses which say after death no chance for repentance? Only one "you will die in your sins" simply means one will rise still in their sins.. "All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD" ..when? during judgment day.. Israel's annual day of national judgment was Day of Atonement, great day of mourning and repentance and forgiveness.. Jubilees were associated with that day..
- Is God not Perfect? Is He not all powerful? Which of these is He not?

Comment C:
"You're attempt to rationalize God's ways is an attempt to place yourself above Him." (he seemed to be responding to another UR supporter).

--- Strong's concordance is needed..


Comment D:
Sheol is "the grave," and all the dead seemed to go there before Christ. But no torment? Not according to Jesus, and Jesus is the one we need to listen to. He described a Sheol divided by a great chasm, with one side presenting comfort and the the other side giving torment. Whatever it was called, Jesus described torment, gnashing of teeth, weeping, unquenchable fire, destruction. Lake of Fire, burning forever, in Revelation. Hell is absolutely a Biblical teaching.

--- Lazarus and the rich man was a parable and, imo, reflects conditions during (what surely must be?) a very long day (age?) of judgment... the great and small of the 2nd resurrection before God, a review for us all, of all human and angelic history..

Comment E:
Sinners talking themselves into Hell is quite common today. To anyone that can READ the Authorized Holy Bible, your entire comment is a joke. In fact, your statements about the Authorized Holy Bible being inaccurate shows you are merely running from the clear teaching of scripture. Hell is not a "Christian concept"; Christ said it was a REALITY (Mark 9:43-48); so did John the apostle (Revelation 14:9-11; 21:8). Only a fool rejects God's plain warnings about His wrath (Romans 1:18) and ignores His judgment upon sinners in the past (Jude 7). Where ever you read the junk you spewed in this forum, it will be in Hell with you unless you repent and trust Christ.

--- yeow.. I would explain what gehenna was.. what the lower part of the earth is (the dust of the grave).. angles locked into judgment-being imperfect cannot now change their course but are locked into judgment.. hell ("the grave") is thrown into the lake of fire.. not vice versa.. Judgment in the Old Testament (Jude 7) was always understood to be national judgment.. a fiery 'hell' is a pre Christian belief.. Dante was a madman.. Strike that last one, I might not say that one..

Here is the article
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/07/28/ex-pastor-who-ignited-evangelical-furor-when-he-questioned-ideas-about-the-afterlife-explains-why-he-doesnt-believe-god-would-burn-people-in-hell-for-eternity/


--- the title itself.. would God burn people in hell for eternity? puh-lease! :faint:

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

I liked the responses so far. There are a few who quoted the following part from the article.

"We are speculating," he said of definitive discussions surrounding heaven and hell. "No one knows.""

How would you all respond to comments like "Why take that risk if you aren't 100% sure if Hell is not real or eternal?"

[WhiteWings]

How would you all respond to comments like "Why take that risk if you aren't 100% sure if Hell is not real or eternal?"

"So, your religion is merely a fire insurance?"
"Where does the Bible state, believing in Hell is part of salvation"

[micah7:9]

Top Comment A:
2 Tim 4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Laz sez:
Folks don't stop to realize that UR does NOT have a "great number of teachers."  They need to examine themselves. for nowadays are no different from the days of Jesus, when few could see themselves in His parables.  There are gobs of itching ears ready to hear what people such as Mary Baxter has to say.

Comment B:
Similarly...their is also the possibility that we will NOT choose to receive Him... When we ignore Him....we are not restored/renewed from the inside out... We remain the broken twisted things that follow their nature into increased implosion (death in scripture)... Hell....is a place where those who refuse God's freely given healing love...his abiding presence inside...Hell is the place where they choose to spend eternity... Yes it is punishment...not by a hateful God....but by those who have chosen to be the depraved/debauched monstrosities that occur when the broken debauched nature of unredeemed humans is fully realized...

Laz sez:
Every bit of the above is someone's theory.  There is not a shred of Biblical proof.  End.

Comment C:
"You're attempt to rationalize God's ways is an attempt to place yourself above Him." (he seemed to be responding to another UR supporter).

Laz sez:
Oh?  But we don't indulge in outright half-pagan fiction like Dante, or not-quite-so-pagan fiction like Milton or Baxter.

Comment D:
Sheol is "the grave," and all the dead seemed to go there before Christ. But no torment? Not according to Jesus, and Jesus is the one we need to listen to. He described a Sheol divided by a great chasm, with one side presenting comfort and the the other side giving torment. Whatever it was called, Jesus described torment, gnashing of teeth, weeping, unquenchable fire, destruction. Lake of Fire, burning forever, in Revelation. Hell is absolutely a Biblical teaching.

Laz sez:
Yes, sheol is the grave.  But when God made the cosmos (Genesis 1:1) He claims only to have made heaven and earth, not Hell.  Further, John 1:3 states that if God did not, then no one else did either.  The no-Hell theory fits more scriptures than the Hell theory.

Comment E:
Sinners talking themselves into Hell is quite common today. To anyone that can READ the Authorized Holy Bible, your entire comment is a joke. In fact, your statements about the Authorized Holy Bible being inaccurate shows you are merely running from the clear teaching of scripture. Hell is not a "Christian concept"; Christ said it was a REALITY (Mark 9:43-48); so did John the apostle (Revelation 14:9-11; 21:8). Only a fool rejects God's plain warnings about His wrath (Romans 1:18) and ignores His judgment upon sinners in the past (Jude 7). Where ever you read the junk you spewed in this forum, it will be in Hell with you unless you repent and trust Christ.

Laz sez:
Sounds like someone has made the KJV into an idol.

:thumbsup: :dsunny:

[bushy]

I liked the responses so far. There are a few who quoted the following part from the article.

"We are speculating," he said of definitive discussions surrounding heaven and hell. "No one knows.""

How would you all respond to comments like "Why take that risk if you aren't 100% sure if Hell is not real or eternal?"

They ask such a silly queston because of the belief that we have to save ourselves and believe all the right facts or we're in big trouble. It's like it was nice for Jesus to die for us but it didn't do a dang thing unless we do our part, so what people have is faith in their faith and think that they have been smart enough to understand the basics, with Jesus stirred into the mix.  Ask most people how they know they are 'saved' and the first thing they say is "because I" did this or that.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

I liked the responses so far. There are a few who quoted the following part from the article.

"We are speculating," he said of definitive discussions surrounding heaven and hell. "No one knows.""

How would you all respond to comments like "Why take that risk if you aren't 100% sure if Hell is not real or eternal?"

They ask such a silly queston because of the belief that we have to save ourselves and believe all the right facts or we're in big trouble. It's like it was nice for Jesus to die for us but it didn't do a dang thing unless we do our part, so what people have is faith in their faith and think that they have been smart enough to understand the basics, with Jesus stirred into the mix.  Ask most people how they know they are 'saved' and the first thing they say is "because I" did this or that.

Most would say their salvation is assured because they accepted Lord Jesus as Savior and turned away from their sins.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Here's a somewhat unique argument in support of ET that I read somewhere else online. Below is a paraphrased version of the argument:

"Eternal torment is a necessary part of God's love because it shows that the lives of the wicked mattered. The everlasting fire is proof that the wicked did not exist for nothing. Most of the wicked believe when they die they just sleep forever. This is God's way of showing that he cares for them and will hold them accountable for their deeds."

What are your thoughts?

[gregoryfl]

Here's a somewhat unique argument in support of ET that I read somewhere else online. Below is a paraphrased version of the argument:

"Eternal torment is a necessary part of God's love because it shows that the lives of the wicked mattered. The everlasting fire is proof that the wicked did not exist for nothing. Most of the wicked believe when they die they just sleep forever. This is God's way of showing that he cares for them and will hold them accountable for their deeds."

What are your thoughts?

Take a person serving a life sentence matter in society, as opposed to someone who undergoes and is successfully rehabilitated and reintroduced back into society. Which one's life is shown to matter? Which shows that they are cared for and yet held accountable for their deeds? I think most arguments fall short when they are truly taken to their logical conclusion.

Ronen

[jabcat]

Most would say their salvation is assured because they accepted Lord Jesus as Savior

I think the ones that say that have gotten that part right :)

John 1:12  Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

[joeteekay]

Here's a somewhat unique argument in support of ET that I read somewhere else online. Below is a paraphrased version of the argument:

"Eternal torment is a necessary part of God's love because it shows that the lives of the wicked mattered. The everlasting fire is proof that the wicked did not exist for nothing. Most of the wicked believe when they die they just sleep forever. This is God's way of showing that he cares for them and will hold them accountable for their deeds."

What are your thoughts?

Hi,
Seems to me that if ET is sleep there is no eternal horrible torment for ever. After all sleep is sweet. I suspect the idea is better expressed by the idea of annihilation. Which also is a false doctrine. I have lived through both the ET and annihilation beliefs. Annihilation seemed so much more "JUST" than ET. Is not God's purpose to save all humanity as many scriptures validate?

[marie glen]

Here's a somewhat unique argument in support of ET that I read somewhere else online. Below is a paraphrased version of the argument:

"Eternal torment is a necessary part of God's love because it shows that the lives of the wicked mattered. The everlasting fire is proof that the wicked did not exist for nothing. Most of the wicked believe when they die they just sleep forever. This is God's way of showing that he cares for them and will hold them accountable for their deeds."

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that's a real knee slapper! :LH: :doh: Not a lotta logic...  :faint:

God our Father can only be perfect. Therefor the 'end' result can onLy be the (utterly) best one possible. Imo. :smile:

[anti_nietzsche]

An explanation would be that only those who do not want to live with God will go to hell. It's their own choice, not a condemnation by God as God does not condemn. Hell is like a dark realm where the unrighteous can do their hideous things, but they do not HAVE to live there. The book of Revelation says the doors of the New Jerusalem remain open and I would venture that frequently angels and saints from the New Jerusalem will wander through hell to preach to lost souls there. Don't take the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man as a depiction of hell. If you go by the nature alone then hell is a beautiful place. But the unrighteous live there to enjoy perversion so it's not a good place anymore. But life with God is easy to get if after death you just decide for heeding Jesus, the Father, the Holy Spirit and the other saints and angels in Heaven.

[eaglesway]

All explanations break down into two categories(imo).....


What is correct according to the scriptures.

What is correct according to reason.

The idea that God allows people to suffer forever because they choose to contradicts a lot of scripture.

Phil 2:9-11, Col 1:15-20, Rom 11:32-36; Eph 1:9-11, 1 Cor 15:22-28; Jon 12:32; Rev 21:5

It is also not logical that God would create beings He supposedly "loves" with a purpose of tormenting the majority of what He created forever.

If people will not accept the testimony of scripture, or the testimony of reason, they are not yet ready to hear, we can only sow a seed, or water one that is growing, and pray for them.

:2c:

[Aerex]

Also, it doesn't seem logic that God will allow sin to run rampant in some tiny corner in existence. If you get rid of the choice thing, choosing God or not, the alternate cannot be hell.

[Lorenzo]

I believe these fellows are a bit too arrogant, aren't they?
Anyway, we're all too arrogant, sometimes. Let us all change. :dsunny:

[darryl]

Hello all,

I was just reading an article about Rob Bell, (an ex pastor who got kicked out do to his believe in UR). As you can all imagine, the comments for the article are flooded with anti UR sentiments. Below are some of the popular comments on the article. How would you all respond? The link to the article is also posted below.

B) Similarly...their is also the possibility that we will NOT choose to receive Him... When we ignore Him....we are not restored/renewed from the inside out... We remain the broken twisted things that follow their nature into increased implosion (death in scripture)... Hell....is a place where those who refuse God's freely given healing love...his abiding presence inside...Hell is the place where they choose to spend eternity... Yes it is punishment...not by a hateful God....but by those who have chosen to be the depraved/debauched monstrosities that occur when the broken debauched nature of unredeemed humans is fully realized..."

running short on time so I'll just respond to comment B. 'Some' will choose NOT  to receive Him ever?...sounds plausible but it's not Biblical. God purposely intends for ALL to come to repentance and not perish according to 2 Peter 3:9 which says  ( Strong's definitions included) , ' The Lord is not (Gk= 'ou'= not, none, nothing) slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not (Gk= me= not, not at all, none at all )  willing ( Gk= 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending, ) for anyone (Gk= 'tis'= anyone )  to perish, but everyone (Gk ='pantas' = all, everyone)  to come to repentance'.The Greek word 'boulomai' is a very strong term according to Strongs and means, in the strongest language possible, that God is 'resolutely planning' for all to come to repentance which, of course, results in salvation.There it is !...no need for any doubt..God intends to bring ALL to repentance... in other words to SAVE ALL, praise God !.

[eaglesway]

The idea that some will never choose Him assumes several things.

One is that Jesus was confused when He said if I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me.

Jesus was lifted up from the earth on the cross and because of this great love(No greater love   has any man than to lay don His life for His friends) the Father exalted Him and gave Him the name above every name, that at the name of Jesus Christ every knee shall bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth......

It is not about us choosing Him. He chooses us. Were we His friends when He laid down His life for us?

For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach(Col 1)

Also,

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him....(Rom 5)


So He loved us before we chose Him, even as He loves all

For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

The idea that putting all things under His feet is impossible because He made some folks with a 'super will' that could refuse Him forever and a 'super stupid mind' that could not, even after an age before His throne where every hidden thing will be brought to light, see the truth and become broken and contrite and bow the knee.... Weeeell, to me that just makes no sense. It is as if God either had

1)No plan at all(He created heaven and "hell" and then put people on the earth just to see where they would wind up)

2) He had a plan but it didnt work so well so tons of folks will be tormented forever because God's plan was flawed.

3)God had a plan and it was His purpose to save a few folks in this age and just torture the rest forever

You could go on and on with scenarios and God doesnt look to smart in most of them- or else He seems capricious and heartless and indifferent to suffering.

Thank God the scriptures teach something different.

With all wisdom and understanding, 9hed made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.(Eph 1)

He causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will, and it is not His will that multitudes perish forever. It is His will, and His kind intention, that through an administration suitable to the completion of time(the ages) He will gather all things into one in Christ, and that we who were first put our hope in Christ will carry the word of reconciliation in the ages to come.

even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Really this is all over the scriptures, but people just dont know the scriptures, and have a false understanding of the divine nature and the eternal power and purpose of God.

Its a shame, but we are here to bear witness.

For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.(Ro 11)

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.(Rom 8)

I hate to disappoint folks but we arent going to just have camp meeting for a billion years while listening to the screams of the damned in the background.

God has a better plan than that.

[guest5685]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :iagree: Eaglesway great post!

If any could resist the draw of the Spirit of God he'd be a real superman! I know for my soul was a quite stubborn catch not because I wanted to be but just didn't understand what was happening to me. For weeks the hand of the Lord was on me and I cried like a baby thinking I was losing my mind. The people I knew at the time were either non-believers or tradition Catholic and none including the priest could tell me what was going on. It seemed ever time I went to church regardless what was read from that Catholic missal I'd begin to tear up and weep. I'd be a mess like that for almost a week but still wanted to go back to church on Sunday. That went on for several weeks how I wish someone could have explained it was the Holy Ghost wanting me to respond but thank God he managed to land this fish all by himself. He gave me a vision of the crucifixion and showered me with a love non could resist at that same time. My God -It's True-It's Real-He Loves Me

Oh! Yes! I wept-repented and left that room that day a changed man inside! LOVE WON-ALWAYS DOES  :iagree: :dsunny:

[GodIsLove]

Darryl, Eaglesway, He1 -- great posts!

:banana: :iagree: :HeartThrob: :dsunny: :thumbsup:

[marie glen]

Darryl, Eaglesway, He1 -- great posts!

:banana: :iagree: :HeartThrob: :dsunny: :thumbsup:

   :iagree: :iagree: ..like totally!

I especially like

  - Darryl -
              Gk= 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending

     :goodpost: :thumbsup: :banana: :banana: why do any assume His Will, planning or intention can be thwarted?!! :faint:

[Dandelion]

In regard to the question of not wanting to chose God, I do think that we need to remember that God made us.

He is our Creator. And we are made in the image and likeness of our God.

There is nothing else in Heaven or Earth that can ever take His place, because He made us, loves us, and wants us for His own.....always has and always will.

"Yet you, LORD, are our Father. We are the clay, you are the potter; we are all the work of your hand."

Isaiah 64:8

"13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb."   

Psalm 139:13  New International Version (NIV)

Amen.

:cloud9:

D.

[marie glen]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen!! The longer we are aware of UR, the more and more we see the evidence of it in His Word! :girlheart:

[darryl]

Also, it doesn't seem logic that God will allow sin to run rampant in some tiny corner in existence.

it's not only illogical it's unBiblical because the Bible says one day sin will be no more and there'll be no more cursed thing.Billions of people continuing to sin and curse God forever  in an 'eternal hell' contradicts the Bible.