daniel 12

[Abigail]

A friend (critical about UR) asked about the following scripture and the meaning of 'everlasting' in it. Though I know this is 'olam' and as aionos pertains to the ages instead of meaning 'eternal' or 'everlasting', I wonder what event the scripture is talking about. Is this talking about the awakening of people in the earthquake when Jesus died, or is it about a future happening, or...?

Daniel 12 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 `And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the book.

2 `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.

3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever.

[Lazarus Short]

Ask your friend this:  If some people are subject to everlasting shame, then how can God ever become All in all?

or, If some/most people are subject to everlasting Hell, then (also) how can God ever become All in all?

All things work together for the glory of God. :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

Ask your friend this:  If some people are subject to everlasting shame, then how can God ever become All in all?

or, If some/most people are subject to everlasting Hell, then (also) how can God ever become All in all?

All things work together for the glory of God. :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

:thumbsup: :dsunny:

[Abigail]

Ask your friend this:  If some people are subject to everlasting shame, then how can God ever become All in all?

or, If some/most people are subject to everlasting Hell, then (also) how can God ever become All in all?

All things work together for the glory of God. :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

That surely is a very good question to ask in any discussion on ET/UR Lazarus! Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I was wondering though, what the scripture verse is speaking about. It is the only verse I know of in the Old Testament that looks somewhat like ET and I'd like to understand  a bit more what it's actually talking about. I have hardly any understanding of the writings that are very prophetic, like Daniel and Revelations.

[WhiteWings]

I was wondering though, what the scripture verse is speaking about. It is the only verse I know of in the Old Testament that looks somewhat like ET and I'd like to understand  a bit more what it's actually talking about. I have hardly any understanding of the writings that are very prophetic, like Daniel and Revelations.

It sounds like the sheep and goat judgement. (v46) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A31-46&version=YLT

[anti_nietzsche]

Imagine you were Hitler and had the blood of millions on your hands. During his earthly life Hitler denied this and considered himself righteous. In the afterlife he is considered evil and unrigtheous and that is the everlasting punishment because this way the guilt never ends. He must always pray to Jesus so that the guild pointing stops and he is accepted among humans in heaven. There is forgiveness and pardon but the truth is not changed and it remains true that Hitler was an evil man. He is destroyed in this fire and must become a new person like we become new persons in Christ. But some of us who have been very good do not have to become all-new and are not failed humans. This is the righteous reward and we are blessed in Christ.

[Dandelion]

One question I have is does age-during denote 'everlasting', or could it be a temporary situation?

Unlike many of you, I have no knowledge of these time terms of the after-life and their implications.

I found this is Wikipedia, under Aeon.

The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. Both these words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as "age" or "age-during". Other English versions most often translate them to indicate eternity, being translated as eternal, everlasting, forever, etc. However, there are notable exceptions to this in all major translations, such as Matthew 28:20: "...I am with you always, to the end of the age" (NRSV), the word "age" being a translation of aion. Rendering aion to indicate eternality in this verse would result in the contradictory phrase "end of eternity", so the question arises whether it should ever be so.[3] Proponents of Universal Reconciliation point out that this has significant implications for the problem of hell.[4] Contrast Matthew 25:46 in well-known English translations with its rendering in Young's Literal Translation:

And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during. (YLT)[5]

Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (NIV)[6]

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (NASB)[7]

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (KJV)[8]

And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life. (NWT)[9]



Does sound to me like the judgement, when the sheep and the goats are separated.

My small, hopefully helpful, contribution.     :2c:

[anti_nietzsche]

"Age-during" means that something lasts in full force until it has been finished. A flame burns with the same, enduring heat until it goes out. Rain is falling without stop until it stops. That's the point of everlasting. Life in Heaven does not stop because there is no death in Heaven, that is why they can say it is everlasting. The punishments of God however are only everlasting in the sense that they endure UNTIL they stop. This does not mean eternal in the modern sense of the word.

[sheila]

  my  :2c:  look to me and be saved all ye ends of the earth.   I believe the earth expierences 'ages'   the age of the law-covenant

   with Israel as a nation was an age..the way I see it.  I also see those who put faith in Christ as sheep of His pasturage..in that day

   as 'come ye who are blessed recieve the kingdom" and those who were in agreement with the" offspring of vipers" and rejected

   Christ" losing the blessings of the covenant under the law..and recieving it's accompanying curses....

    the gospel age/and His accompanying return/Revealing..refining of His body of believers...also ends with a separating of those

  blessed and those agreeing with 'offspring of viper's' spirits.".who resist and fight against His purifying/refining......having

their works burnt up[most likely through same government that desolated Jerusalem]...


   the millenial being the reign of Jesus Christ and the elevated[purified] church[1000 yrs as a day/His judgement/reign over all the power of the

enemy..of which ends with the crushing of the head of the serpent/and all power of the enemy.   The way I see it there is again

a seperation of an elevated church from Gog's crowd......the final end of the MILLENEAL AGE Is the fire yet again that burns

up/consumation of the works of Gog's crowd.or the works of the devil that are burnt up.Great White throne judgement d/t His

purification and seperating refining.

   From my expierence He has returned and is purifying/refining seperating now.  Iread   after the thousand years are over...like this

    'with the end of the 1000 years/or at the conclusion of the 1000 yrs satan is released.   this is the final testing of His purified church

     His day of Judgement/Reign is Him appearing again seperate from sin in His people..having refined them..so they are not harmed

  of the 2nd death...with LOF expierence to burn up their wicked works in cahoots with the demons/satan....Gog's crowd

   Jude bears wittness to the twice dead[not purified/associated with offspring of viper/lof class]
.

   harmed is loss.......the wise woman builds up her house...the foolish tears it down...again refining/seperating...wise/foolish virgins

   = churches...the marriage supper is intimacy/bridal white/refined clean/white..great white throne judgement/wise/refined church

  the 1000 yr reign/day of Judgement...Gog's crowd = offspring of viper/decieved by satan/foolish virgins......

   everything is cleansed by water/blood/fire. 

   we have to get past that angel with the flaming sword that guards the tree of life..to eat from it.[and out of His mouth came a sharp

  double edged sword.  Repent therefore,otherwise I will soon come to you and fight against them with the sword of my mouth..]

  Seven letters...  Psalms 12;6  and the words of the Lord are flawless,like silver refined in a furnace of clay purified 7 times.

     

    there is no sound of a tool in the assembly of the temple stones...there is just an assembly/placement....all the needed refinement

  measuring/cutting has been accomplished beforehand.

   the refing/seperating will endure only until purification.

[Abigail]

Dandelion, you can find a lot about aion, aionos, everlasting on the Tentmaker website. Look under articles and Scholars Corner.

[Dandelion]

Thank you, Abigail.

That is helpful.....rote memory is my worst skill. I will have to also take time to write them down, make a list that is in an order that makes sense to me, and take time to memorize them. Or use the list until I memorize them......which will be a long time.  :eek:

But, I so appreciate your help.

D.     :girlheart:

[eaglesway]

"Age-during" means that something lasts in full force until it has been finished. A flame burns with the same, enduring heat until it goes out. Rain is falling without stop until it stops. That's the point of everlasting. Life in Heaven does not stop because there is no death in Heaven, that is why they can say it is everlasting. The punishments of God however are only everlasting in the sense that they endure UNTIL they stop. This does not mean eternal in the modern sense of the word.

Absolutley agree. This is the root olam as well, even moreso.

[MHz]

A friend (critical about UR) asked about the following scripture and the meaning of 'everlasting' in it. Though I know this is 'olam' and as aionos pertains to the ages instead of meaning 'eternal' or 'everlasting', I wonder what event the scripture is talking about. Is this talking about the awakening of people in the earthquake when Jesus died, or is it about a future happening, or...?

Daniel 12 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 `And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the book.

2 `And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.

3 And those teaching do shine as the brightness of the expanse, and those justifying the multitude as stars to the age and for ever.

The first few verses of Da:12 are the end of a passage that includes all of Da:11. The king that stand up is Satan as the falling mountain in the 5th trump verses and he releases the Beast from the Pit and that is the king mentioned in those verses. He has a period of 42 months before Jesus sends him to the fiery lake and that is on the day the 7th trump sounds. The last verse in Da:11 is when the 7th trumps sounds in Re:11 and the 3rd woe is the 7 vials being poured out is about 3 1/2 hours (Re:16) and then the gathering of the people takes up the next few hours (Re:10) so that by 6PM it is finished.

Zec:14:7:
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD,
not day,
nor night:
but it shall come to pass,
that at evening time it shall be light.

The ones that die because of the vials are sent to hell until judgment day and the ones that die before that area sleep and some belong in the 1,000 year reign but most remain asleep until judgment day and then they are saved. The ones the Seas give up are the giants that died in the flood. They can be saved because they all have human mothers and fallen angels are the fathers and none of them escape being sent to the fiery lake.

Da:12 has a few dates that cam be explained based on the Church being protected for a period that is equal to 1260 days. 1290 day is 30 days added to the beginning and that is the coals from heaven event as that is when people are sealed. People being the 144,000, the ones counted in the temple in Re:11 (Christians) and the two witnesses. The two witnesses alone are the remnant of the woman in the last few verses of Re:12 and that is who Satan and the Beast to to war against. When they are killed the 1260 days is over and Satan controls Jerusalem for the next 3 days and on the day they are resurrected Satan's global kingdom is totally destroyed, starting at the 1/2 day mark.

The other number is 1335 and that is the 1290 from above with 45 days attached to the end of the 1260 days. That includes the 5 days to cover Satan's time in control of Jerusalem and a full month for all Gentiles that are on the planet that are alive after the vials are finished and they walk to Jerusalem so they only enter from the east so they can be glorified before they get to Jerusalem to meet Jesus and the 12 Tribes as the 12 Tribes are glorified in the 30 days it takes the Church to walk there.

[eaglesway]

Speculative eschatology isnt the focus of Tentmaker- lets try to keep the conversation somewhere near the realm of the site title...."Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe"  :declare: