If you want to see something amazing...

[jabcat]

just Google "what happens to people who never hear about jesus".

Wow.

It's sad really.

But I understand (sort of).  Because most don't as yet realize the age to come and what it means that every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus is Lord.  Still, it can be staggering to see the [understandable] confusion.

[jabcat]

Here's one example from C A R M.  "If all people who have never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ end up in hell,
then that would be right because God would never do anything that is improper."

[CHB]

Wow!! How long O Lord till you reveal the truth? Can you imagine the shock to those who learn the truth for the first time? They will probably be like Jonah, mad at God for not destroying most people.

There is a purpose for this I am sure, just don't know what it is. I do know that God blinds eyes and closes the ears. It is all in his plan. I thank him for what I know which isn't a whole lot but I could still be one of these who don't know about the salvation of all but by the grace of God I am so thankful I know this one truth that only he can give.

CHB 

[Tom]

That's exactly what doesn't make sense about orthodox theology. How could a just God condemn those who never even heard about Jesus to torture in fire forever? It's crazy. It doesn't make sense because it's not the truth. The truth is in one simple verse of scripture.

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

[bushy]

Here's one example from C A R M.  "If all people who have never heard of the gospel of Jesus Christ end up in hell,
then that would be right because God would never do anything that is improper."

Right, God would never do anything that is improper. That is why nobody is going to end up in hell.

[Aerex]

If we assume that those who never hear the gospel are granted mercy from God, we will run into a terrible problem. If people who never hear the gospel are saved, it is logical that we should make sure no one ever hears the gospel. The worst thing we could do would be to share the gospel with a person and have him or her reject it. If that were to happen, he or she would be condemned. People who do not hear the gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motivation for evangelism. Why run the risk of people possibly rejecting the gospel and condemning themselves when they were previously saved because they had never heard the gospel?

This response sounds a bit arrogant and depressing to think that man must desire God first before one can be saved. It is even worse to say that the motivation to spread good news is to save people. How is that the reason for condemning people? It is not even logical.

[Tom]

Right, it makes no sense at all just like the whole idea of God torturing anybody in fire forever let alone most of mankind.

[jabcat]

Having believed in ET most of my life, as well as much of my family, I truly have some understanding about how folks try to reason this.  If we believe the Bible teaches hell and eternal torment, then we must attempt to find some way to make sense of it all.  What I see is a lot of "good" folks who believe in Jesus trying to understand how it all works, without the view of the next age, every knee bowing, God reconciling His creation, etc.

There is a purpose for this I am sure, just don't know what it is. I do know that God blinds eyes and closes the ears. It is all in his plan. I am so thankful I know this one truth that only he can give.

CHB 

[Lazarus Short]

The whole fire-forever theology is absurd if you just consider what God would be sending to Hell, if He did.

The dead body?  What purpose could that possibly serve?  Absurd.  :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor:

The Spirit/Breath?  That's God's part of us, the Spirit of Life.  Absurd.  Presumptuous. Blasphemous.  :eek: :eek: :eek:

The Soul, the living person?  That still contains the Spirit (body + spirit = soul).  Still Absurd, presumptuous, and blasphemous. :doh: :footmouth: :eek:

It's Heaven for us all.  Hell, not so much, no, not at all.  God never even stated that He made such a place.  It never crossed His mind.

[eaglesway]

For the most part ETrs believe resurrected people in indestructible bodies will be tortured forever in fire.

[Lazarus Short]

For the most part ETrs believe resurrected people in indestructible bodies will be tortured forever in fire.

As taught in their KJV's?  I don't think so.  It's theo-illogical, absurd, and they have not dealt with the FACT that these resurrected people would still need God's own Spirit of Life in them to be alive to be tortured in fire forever, and that borders on blasphemy.

[Tom]

I think the common misconception of "hell" taught by the church is "blasphemy," and there's no way to deny it. The crazy thing is those of us who don't believe it are the ones considered to be heretics by those who believe church doctrine, but I'd rather be persecuted for the truth than to stand for a lie.

[rosered]

  Here  is the thing   that happened    and  I figured out    when believing in hell as a place of fiery torment    ..

That fear does feed the  ''imaginations of mankind ''    feeling forever rejected by God  ...   We are carnal  and so sinful  after all    and He is Spiritual     and holy .

We don't know what is going to happen   when Jesus comes and    what to expect      ,

     He comes in the most    gentle and   strange ways    , while we are in the carnal state     and still enemies  of His gentle Holy Spirit

     
But the carnal mind cannot comprehend    it  .  This carnal mind is a place of darkness and earth bound       and it creates a god of its imaginations       
We are spiritually blind  to His Light      , not even knowing what is happening to us  , hind sight is 20/20       , I did  not know it was Him  helping me though the darkness .       

   We believe what we are told and  feed on that    bitter  herb  ,  and think it is sweet     , because every hungry    and dried out being is  desperate     to find God in all this sea of madness
Its not really fair to condemn those whom  are in the very place we come out of .
  How can we brag     so big on how we overcome  ,  when it was the Lord who delivers   every last one of us in His   own   desire ?   
Our hope is that they to will see the LIGHT    and be saved     in my opinion ..
  What are we doing to actually help them      ''come out ''  into the Light and SEE HIM for themselves ?

When do we see Jesus     ?   

When he was naked and hungry and  without a place to    rest his head .

For me this is a time of our testing   and many , many have helped along the way  , we have   all this in common    , the Eyes of the Lord are upon us   all

we have reaped  what others have sown and   received  what others have suffered and laboured in love     though to   get   even what we have now      and  are to sow   as Paul said it is nothing,, it is God whom gives the increase       , we are all in this together      , sharing what God has given to us all   

SO  the least and the greatest    CAN BE AS ONE      and have all these things in common     in Gods kingdom ...

 


 
Matt 25 The King Will Judge All People
31 "The Son of Man will come again in his great glory [Dan. 7:13–14], with all his angels. He will ·be King and sit on his [L sit on his] ·great [glorious] throne.

32 All the nations of the world will be gathered before him, and he will separate them ·into two groups [L one from another] as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 The Son of Man will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to the people on his right, 'Come, ·my Father has given you his blessing [L those blessed by my Father]. ·Receive [Inherit] the kingdom God has prepared for you ·since the world was made [L from the creation/foundation of the world].

35 [L For; Because] I was hungry, and you gave me food. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was ·alone and away from home [a stranger], and you ·invited me into your house [welcomed/received me]. 36 I was ·without clothes [naked], and you ·gave me something to wear [clothed me]. I was sick, and you ·cared for [visited; looked after] me. I was in prison, and you ·visited [came to] me.'

37 "Then the ·good [righteous] people will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and give you food, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you ·alone and away from home [a stranger] and ·invite you into our house [welcome/receive you]? When did we see you ·without clothes [naked] and ·give you something to wear [clothe you]? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and ·care for [come to] you?'

40 "Then the King will answer, 'I tell you the truth, anything you did for even the least of my ·people here [L brothers (and sisters)], you also did for me.'

41 "Then the King will say to those on his left, '·Go away [Depart] from me. You ·will be punished [are cursed]. Go into the ·fire that burns age during  [ fire] that was prepared for the devil and his angels [C the demons].

42 [L For; Because] I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was ·alone and away from home [a stranger], and you did not ·invite me into your house [welcome/receive me]. I was ·without clothes [naked], and you ·gave me nothing to wear [did not clothe me]. I was sick and in prison, and you did not ·care for [visit; look after] me.'

44 "Then those people will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or ·alone and away from home [a stranger] or ·without clothes [naked] or sick or in prison? When did we see these things and not ·help [serve; care for] you?'

45 "Then the King will answer, 'I tell you the truth, ·anything [to the extent] you refused to do for even the least of ·my people here [L these], you refused to do for me.'


The same Spirit of salvation to all mankind  should not be hidden under a    ''hidden place ''   or buried in the earth
  but open      like this forum and in every   place we can be open to sahre this good news
  I know  from experience it not so easy to do ,  even my own family and friends cannot   receive it   fully     

But the spark   that keeps the wick burning  smoldering and smoking  ,    the Lord says he will not extinguish it       

 
I run hot and cold        ,  this confession     is true

It is the LORD whom keeps   the fires burning   and  the Light shinning in a dark place       
But when I run cold   he always is faithful to send someone     to relight the candle   when I am to weak to   find my  place

Lukewarm    Christians are     in trouble and need     help   and WHOM SHALL THE LORD SEND ?   


Being fed is wonderful , but it sticks in your crawl    when you see so many out there just needing a   crust of bread    and have no where to   go   and no ways to 

understand  and seek the Lord   being so carnal still and   still an enemy against the very Spirit     that   does    save them.    pull them up out of the world into a place that does   have rest and hope and Life in them by faith   








 
   

[bushy]

If we assume that those who never hear the gospel are granted mercy from God, we will run into a terrible problem. If people who never hear the gospel are saved, it is logical that we should make sure no one ever hears the gospel. The worst thing we could do would be to share the gospel with a person and have him or her reject it. If that were to happen, he or she would be condemned. People who do not hear the gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motivation for evangelism. Why run the risk of people possibly rejecting the gospel and condemning themselves when they were previously saved because they had never heard the gospel?

This response sounds a bit arrogant and depressing to think that man must desire God first before one can be saved. It is even worse to say that the motivation to spread good news is to save people. How is that the reason for condemning people? It is not even logical.

I think the 'gospel' according to ETers is not gospel or good news. The motivation to spread good news really is to save people, not from fire but from sin. I love the fact that gospel means good news, for everyone, whether they've heard the news or not, someday they will and find out how good it is. It's a lot nicer to be able to tell anyone no matter how bad they are about good news for them instead of pointing out their sin.

Luke 2:10  but the angel reassured them. "Don't be afraid!" he said. "I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people.

[eaglesway]

For the most part ETrs believe resurrected people in indestructible bodies will be tortured forever in fire.

As taught in their KJV's?  I don't think so.  It's theo-illogical, absurd, and they have not dealt with the FACT that these resurrected people would still need God's own Spirit of Life in them to be alive to be tortured in fire forever, and that borders on blasphemy.

It is absurd, but there it is. It is the unavoidable conclusion of that heresy, because to be held conscious in torment for an eternal duration would surely require the hand of God, because all consciouness is from Him, and must be sustained by Him, since their can be no consciousness that  apart from Him.

[Caffus]

It is a horribly sad depressing doctrine..but most of us believed it too.  It is so confusing..if we are to share the gospel so people might accept it and by that be saved from Gods wrath of eternal torment. How can we then not somewhere wothin ourselves think we are better than God..because we are...in some sense trying to rescue people from God.  We need to remember how we used to feel, when we believed in hell..love these people and pray for them

[eaglesway]

It is a horribly sad depressing doctrine..but most of us believed it too.  It is so confusing..if we are to share the gospel so people might accept it and by that be saved from Gods wrath of eternal torment. How can we then not somewhere wothin ourselves think we are better than God..because we are...in some sense trying to rescue people from God.  We need to remember how we used to feel, when we believed in hell..love these people and pray for them

So,so true.