Human Teachers

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen. The root of the "problem" was in that no one pressed in to find out the pattern had been corrupted, probably from the moment the apostles passed from the scene. CHRIST IN US, is the gifts, and those gifts are the 5 fold division of HIM manifesting the fruit of the works of those offices.

Christ is the only one that can be both the CEO and the body of the "corporation" at the same time. Not discerning the Lord's body as being SPIRIT, and not discerning that the gifts are HIM, divided up into the natural flesh and blood body, are the leaven that destroyed the pattern, as He knew it would.

When the Lord first pulled me out of the system, for a short season, He used me and 4 others He hand picked to form a true 5 fold ministry, as in one HE selected and formed. The revelation from the teaching on the 5 fold is something I wish I had written down; there is so much more to it than can be imagined......It is the chambers of His heart, filled with the Spirit....BUT the spear must come to pierce the heart, and pierce the heart it did.

The things that He did among us and those that He brought to the meetings from word of mouth only (from every denomination) were like Acts chapter 2 being walked out. BUT; it was to live out and see firsthand what happened to the early church because the tares that remained also were raised up, and they destroyed it just like the first church realm did.

The first thing it was supposed to do was reproduce more 5 fold "hearts", capable of beating on their own eventually and doing the same multiplication, unlike the church system that fell by the sin of the Nicolatians ie. separating the clergy (5 fold) from the laity, and making the laity dependent upon the clergy. But God has a plan and it will be performed according to His perfect will and timing.

:violin: :drummer: :angelharp: Oh, I gotta feeling every thing's gonna be alright, oh, I gotta feeling every thing's gonna be alright......... :thumbsup: :winkgrin:

[Loveroftruth]

Wonderland

I liked what you said:

I'm open to learning from just about anyone (without having to call them a teacher as described in the NT... or 'my' teacher) - and keeping that inner honesty before God and with myself if I don't understand or agree with what's being taught.

:bgdance:

[SeekerSA]

Card

I can relate to what you shared.  In my early walk we had home cells on Wednesdays and they were growing also by word of mouth and the cell leader and I were in sync for 12 weeks straight.  There was no program and although we dominated, it was not uncommon to fellowship 3 hours of more.

Then came the Book;

The pastor flew to Singapore and I am not sure who the dude was, but he came back with all these booklets, we each got one.  It explained how to have home cell.  The result? Death.

See whenever there is a move of God , somewhere someone has to legalise it and the move dies.  We went from 20+ people to basically 3 families talk about the inverse of multiplication (division)

It never was the same and then we had to discuss the previous Sunday's teaching Aaargh!

I have also tasted the NT church and sadly that is how it is supposed to be but man......

Blessings

[Loveroftruth]

Card said

CHRIST IN US, is the gifts, and those gifts are the 5 fold division of HIM manifesting the fruit of the works of those offices.

WOOOOOOOHOOOOO :bgdance:

you go girl, thats what I see, I see many if not all of the gifts show up in me here or there.

The only limitation is when we label OURSELVES...... :mshock:

When we label ourselves we are not open to the other ways he want to flow through us.

Again, IMO  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Seeker....EXACTLY......and Amen LT; as long as He is allowed to move and have His being in us, manifesting what He wants, when He wants, thru whom He wants, it is amazing. The only "order" then at this stage, is; that order.....is whatever He wants. Think about it. If ALL are moving in the Spirit, then only the Spirit is what is moving. The rest are standing STILL, ie. be STILL and know that I am God. Duh, LOL.....we MADE it hard and convoluted and DEAD. 

If all are taught (by demonstration of the Spirit backed up by the revealed Word) how to flow in the Spirit, then the Spirit flows thru each as He desires. So then, HE can APPEAR in our midst, AS, NOT THRU, the apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher, and pastor, when the times of refreshing come. Thru this we grow or He grows in us, into the full measure of the stature of Christ, which is why no man can (by taking thought) add to this stature. The carnal mind can't do it! Halleluyah! Blessings to all......

[Loveroftruth]

Thru this we grow or He grows in us, into the full measure of the stature of Christ,

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOO!!!  :bgdance: Your on fire today!  :drummer: :drummer: :drummer:

[Wonderland]

Wonderland

I liked what you said:

I'm open to learning from just about anyone (without having to call them a teacher as described in the NT... or 'my' teacher) - and keeping that inner honesty before God and with myself if I don't understand or agree with what's being taught.

:bgdance:

Thank you LoT.

I re-read my post and hoped it wasn't too negative sounding.  There have been a few key people in my life who I have considered my teacher if you will.  Two of them were back in my orthodox setting (some people seem to be shielded from the horrors of ET doctrine and the general law-keeping mentality within Christianity). 

One was a lady in her 60's who taught young adults, men and women (isn't that breaking some kind of 'law'?) - she was the first person to ever show me how Christ had fulfilled prophecy in the scripture - in 20+ years of being in church circles she was the only one to ever do that... isn't that one of the foundational reasons for our faith in Christ?  :scratchhead:   

She was also showed a lot of grace and hospitality, opening up her home for those who'd fallen on hard times in one way or another.  She was so thrilled to see us understanding the things she taught and her humility was just beautiful.  I'm not sure I ever sat with a group of young people more interested in learning from the scriptures than with this dear lady.  :HeartThrob:

Without people like her in my life at various points, I don't think I'd still be on this journey.  :smile:

[Kratos]

I think where I am seeing a disconnect is some are focusing on where they are and I am looking at what it will take us to bring others to this same place as priests of the Lord in Tabernacles. I believe that this is the reason that Aaron's rod was placed in the Ark in the Holy of Holies as a perpetual witness against rebels. Submission to other men placed over as both Kings (rulers) and Priests (ministers) will be required of all as all authority is put down if not directly delegated by the Lord.

We were all rebels at one time until we came face to face with righteous authority in God's Kingdom. The "Kingdom Now" message was hard for many to swallow as they loved Jesus as Savior, but really did not want to come under a Lord now. Maybe when He returns they would, but to do it now meant to bring their souls under the higher authorities now as it says in Romans 13. It meant submutting to men as unto the Lord who sent them.

I see the disconnect as confusing the process with the end result. Gal. 4 says that an heir (son) as long as they are a child will be placed under tutors and governors until the appointed time of the Father. Even Jesus, when He was a child, had to submit to Joseph for even another 18 years after He was a better teacher in the Temple than all of the doctors of the Law. In God's Kingdom, elders rule and not gifts as Seeker pointed out. Although at 12 Jesus was already a gifted teacher, He had to learn obedience by the things He suffered as His soul was denied under Joseph until God declared Him as a fully matured Son in whom He was well pleased.

We have all benefited under tutors (teachers) and governors (elders) as long as we were children. As we approach the appointed time of the Father when we must now be manifested as full grown Sons, we must learn to be led by the Spirit and no longer be under these tutors and governors.

I feel that many of my questions are being answered by those in this place in their walk so they resist the thought that tutors or governors were ever the will of God for us. It is like those who despise the Law of the Passover Age or the 5-fold tutors or governors of the Pentecostal Age because they know that it no longer pertains to them. However, there will always be (until God is All in All) a spiritual generation that will be totally in the flesh and need the Law as their schoolmaster to bring them unto Christ or to be under tutors and governors as children of the Kingdom until they learn obedience and come to the appointed time of the Father for them and pass over into Sonship and receive their inheritance as those who have learned to be led by the Spirit.

In the natural, it reminds me of those who are doing algebra in High School and laugh at those in 2nd grade learning arithmatic. It is not that 2nd grade is not valid because if they had not learned arithmatic when they were in that season, they would not be able to do algebra now.

I feel that some of us are only now being told to listen only to the Lord as full grown Sons because we were under these tutors and governors who trained us to come out of our independent and rebelious hearts and to take our place both over and under in a Kingdom. Unlike many, I think that those who have come to Sonship will become the tutors and governors of those who need to be matured in the Tabernacles Age. It is a step in spiritual growth that no one can bypass, not even Jesus. The question is will we be willing to embrace these roles for the sake of the little ones coming up or will we despise our own days of small beginnings thinking that these were only carnal interpretations of the way of the Lord?

So, again, my answer to the OP is that human teachers are valid and neccessary for our spiritual growth. They are a means to an end of growing up until they are no longer needed in our life, but I do not believe that they were never before or never again will be a part of the process of bringing many sons unto glory. I honor both the Lord and the men that He used in these roles while I was placed under tutors and governors and I will not leave these places to carnal men because of a belief that they are not the way of the Lord for all. I am willing to take my place as both a tutor (teacher) and a governor (ruler or elder) for those heirs who are still children and have not yet come to the appointed time of the Father for them to independently be led by the Spirit as a manifested Son of God.

John

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well, John, that's why this walk is one on One at this point, and no one can judge another in meat or drink. If that's what is LIFE in you at this time, it would be sin for you not do as your conscience is convicted by the power of the HS. Blessings to you in your walk always...... :HeartThrob: