How To Treat Others

[Tom]

I agree that we should love all our brothers and sisters on the planet, and we're all sinners who need to help each other out instead of condemning each other. But I was just saying in my last post that I disagreed with the interpretation that eunuchs are homosexual because I think there is a difference. Somebody could be one or the other or both, but being one doesn't make somebody the other. And I don't think saying the two are the same means some people are born homosexual because scripture says some eunuchs are born that way. I find it hard to believe that God causes some people to be born homosexual and then prohibits it. I think the intersex condition is a separate issue too. Those folks are truly genetically born that way, and I think they have the option to choose a marriage partner of whichever gender and be faithful to that person just as a heterosexual couple is supposed to do in marriage. But heterosexual folks who have a desire to seek lovers outside marriage, whether single or married, need to try to clean up their act too even though they were born with sin. What I'm saying is we were all born that way, with sin, but that doesn't mean we're just supposed to go for it. We need to come to the realization in our lives that we need to try to quit doing the stuff that we should know is sin whatever that may be, and that doesn't mean we're going to be immediately successful. But I think there is a blessing in overcoming sin in our lives. I don't think we should be proud of that or self-righteous because it's only by the grace of God that we're saved, but I think we still need to put some effort into it. We should realize that sin is in our flesh even though we're filled with the holy spirit of God. But that doesn't mean we should be complacent about it. 

[Psalm91:4]

I think that is wonderful, jabcat.  His word gets in there and  makes all the difference in even our personal relationships. Very cool! 

Before you posted the James verse you saw on facebook, I was reading a few verses up from that one about confessing our faults to each other and how we are to pray for one another and be healed from things in this way.

Thing is, on a very public forum most of us would not feel too cozy to bring out our lists...LoL

There's nothing like living with someone tho,  to get that list dealt with real quick!

Can u imagine if the ecclesia here...all lived together?!  We`d be perfected in no time.   :dsunny:

[sheila]

Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.

   Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you. Rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

  Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser,still;teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.

[Tom]

I think, if I want to do right by God, I have two choices if I don't want to willfully continue to commit sin while knowing it is and knowing the right thing to do, either be celibate or get married. I've been married a few times, and I'm really not looking to get married right now. So I just have to be celibate for the time being. I don't know what the future holds or what might even happen tonight, but right now that's what I think I need to do. The reason I say this is because that's what I think is the right attitude toward sexual sin of any kind. If you're aware that your sexual activity is sin of any kind, then I think you also have two choices. Either get married according to what scripture says is marriage, a man and woman, or remain celibate. I only desire woman, but I don't want to get married right now. So I plan to remain celibate unless I change my mind and decide to get together with a lady. I've been guilty of heterosexual sin in the past, but God's love changed my life. So I'm trying to do the right thing now. Sometimes it's not easy, but, in the long run, it's a blessing to do what God says. I'm far from perfect, but I'm a whole lot less wild than I used to be. I only say all this to show that I'm not condemning anybody's else's sin. I just think we need to keep it real when we're talking about any sin, and we can't be conned into accepting any sin just because it is now politically correct even though we need to be ever mindful of our own sin and continue to resist the powers that cause us to be tempted. I agree with the original post that we should "treat others" with love because we're all sinners in this world. Thank God we believers are justified in Christ. That's the only thing different about us and unbelievers. It's not because we're worthy. It's only because of the grace of God.

[joeteekay]

Very important post Rich! I agree..we definitely need to show more love. None of us is perfect in this life. We are not under the letter of the law that brings death, hate and division. We who are in the Spirit have His law of grace and love written in our haerts. Jesus said, Judge not least you be judged.  We are not to reject eachother, we are to love. I have seen some posts on this site that would be very painful for a Christian homosexual to read and I pray for that attitude of judgementalism and exclusion to be done away with. Replace it with respect and love. Pray for others all you want God might just change your heart as well.  :HeartThrob:

This is a much appreciate subject. We(me) get hung up on technical analysis of scripture. Good to be reminded of what really matters.

Psa_31:23  O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

[Seth]

While I think it is clear that homosexual acts are sinful, I disagree with a common Christian assertion that homosexuals choose to be so. I sense that they say that because sending gays to "hell" for feelimgs they cannot help seems too cruel. Therefore, gays choose to be gay. I don't know why, especially throughout history, a gay person would choose to have those feelings when they have led to such persecution and even death in some societies. Can an otherwise heterosexual simply choose to be gay and have no interest in the opposite sex? I don't think so. that doesn't mean it's not sin. I just happen to believe that man is sold into carnality. You can't choose to be unsold until the deliverer chooses to do so. God delivered Israel out of Egypt in his own time and not a day sooner. Just adding another perspective.

[Tom]

I think everybody chooses their sexual partners based on their preferences and desires, and I don't think saying somebody is born a certain way justifies their sin which is what I think the whole idea of saying somebody is born that way is all about. Some folks are bisexual, and I think that's simply by choice also. My first ex-wife and several girlfriends were bi, but I don't think they were born that way. My taste in women has changed over the years, but that's a result of life experience and my own desire not because I was born that way. We're all born with sin, but I don't think that means we're all born to commit certain kinds of sin. I think sin just manifests itself differently in different people and even differently in the same person at different times. I think the whole thing about folks claiming they were born that way is just a way to justify certain behavior that can be changed if one realizes it needs to be and God causes it to happen. I've been heterosexual all my life, but a lot has changed in my life by the power of the holy spirit of God. I think sexual desire is something good and natural that God gave to mankind to propagate the planet and for heterosexual couples to enjoy in marriage. I personally think marriage is simply the uniting of a man and woman in a committed relationship with God with or without paperwork, but there is obviously some benefit to having it documented with the state even though that paperwork can be nullified by other paperwork. But the point is that it is supposed to be a heterosexual relationship according to God which is why the separate genders were created the way they are and the way they are born to be. God prohibited certain kinds of sexual relationships in scripture because they're considered to be unnatural and/or sinful. You're not supposed to hook up with animals or corpses which most people don't do, but some do. You're also not supposed to hook up with other people you're not married to regardless of what gender they are, and you're not supposed to hook up with folks of the same gender. Some folks consider some other folks perverted simply because they don't share the same sexual sin even though all sin somehow even if not sexually. I think, if you're born with clear distinct equipment of one gender or the other that you're expected to seek the opposite gender to get together with even though there is the natural exception of intersex folks who I think have the option to choose which gender they will seek to be in a committed relationship with. I think God had a good reason for wanting people to enjoy heterosexual relationships but not homosexual. It's obvious if you know a little about anatomy. So I think the desire to be one flesh with the opposite gender is something that's natural and also sanctioned by God in marriage, but all other forms of sexual activity are prohibited because they miss the mark of what the God given gift of sex is all about.   

[micah7:9]

Luk 6:42  Or how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me cast out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

[rosered]

Luk 6:42  Or how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me cast out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

Amen !    God uses our weakness  to show us His power  in the Spirit  , to humble us  all . knowing its His grace that saves .

  unless the prideful one be exposed  , showing all   , but himself  , who is in error and   has exalted  himself against God   

and not a doer of the Law,  but a judge  of the Law of God

[Tom]

I agree that it is not our right to condemn our brothers and sisters for their sin while ignoring our own, but I think we're supposed to recognize sin and overcome it by the power of God not just passively tolerate it because it may be politically correct.

[Seth]

I agree that it is not our right to condemn our brothers and sisters for their sin while ignoring our own, but I think we're supposed to recognize sin and overcome it by the power of God not just passively tolerate it because it may be politically correct.

I completely agree with that and I understand it's a choice to commit acts of sin, but I don't think homosexuality as a sexual condition is a choice, but an inborn result for the carnal nature of man. I've known gay people personally enough to know that they didn't choose to have the feelings they did. You cannot decide that it's a choice unless you are them and have walked in their shoes.

[Tom]

I think everybody has their own perspective in life, and nobody else can know exactly what somebody else is going through. But I think the thing is that we all make choices in life about a lot of things. Some folks like to call that free will, but I don't agree with that idea because I think only God truly has free will. But we do make choices influenced by things including spirit powers, and that's why we sin regardless of what kind of sin it is. Folks can claim they were born a certain way, but I think that's often a mental thing not physical just like the folks who think they're really the opposite gender trapped in the wrong kind of body. The only folks who I think are really so called "born that way" are those who have distinct physical differences from what's usually considered to be male and female like the intersex folks who used to be called hermaprodites and maybe some who have an imbalance of hormones. I've read that, in different cultures especially in ancient times, the roles of sexuality weren't so strict as they are in modern western culture, but that doesn't mean that justifies sexual practices that are prohibited in scripture for what seems to be logical reasons. I think the thing about saying somebody is "born that way" is just to say that either it is for that reason that it must be all right or for that reason you should have more pity for that person than anybody else who has to resist temptation of sin of any kind. We are all born with sin, and we all have to resist temptation of sin. But we need to keep it real about what sin is and not try to justify it by saying, because we were born with it, we might as well just go ahead and enjoy it.

[Seth]

There's a difference between sexual orientation and sexual practice. Romans 7 seems to me to contradict the idea that without the Holy Spirit, sinful feelings are a choice. Paul didn't think coveting was a choice for him under the law. That doesn't mean he thought it was justifiable. He just knew he needed salvation from the body of this death.

In my ET days Christians would always refer to Romans 7 if they felt guilty about a sin they struggled with internally, but for gays, nope that's a choice.

[Tom]

I believe homosexuality is not a case of sexual orientation but disorientation. In other words, it is a case of sexual confusion. I don't believe sin is a choice because we're all born with it, but we make choices in life to act on what we desire with or without holy spirit even though holy spirit gives us the power to overcome sin in our lives. I think it's a constant battle because, even though one manifestation of sin may be overcome, sin will continue to plague us until we are finally completely free from it when we are immortalized in spiritual bodies rid of our corrupt flesh in which sin remains even when we're living in the spirit. It's only by the grace of God that we can overcome sin in our lives, but we need to acknowledge our sin before we can begin to overcome it. You can't be in denial through some philosophy that, because God made you that way, you can't overcome sin. If people would trust God and depend on God to change them, they would be surprised at what God would do in their lives. Many people have had their lives completely turned around, and I'm one of them. You don't have to accept the status quo if you're honest with yourself and have a desire to change, but you need to rely on God for the power to do so. 

[Seth]

I agree with your fundamental points about sin. And whether one calls it orientation or disorientation, the inconsistency Christians in general have about homosexuality as a choice (vs the sins they struggled with) has resulted in alot wacko "treatments" to attempt to make gays change their minds about being gay. Such treatments can result in more psychological damage and to me is an expression of hypocrisy and ignoring what the Bible says about man's condition.

[Tom]

I've read about some of the "counseling," and I'm aware that some folks come at others self-righteously or maybe even with good intentions but with the wrong method. I think the most effective means of convincing somebody of the truth is simply sharing the word of God through which the power of the holy spirit of God will reveal the truth and provide the power to live it. And we believers should be loving friends without condemnation to lost souls who are struggling with any sin even sharing what sin we're struggling with in our lives to show that we're not trying to say we're perfect, only that we've discovered the way to overcome sin even though it's an ongoing battle day to day moment to moment. After a while, when you've overcome certain sin in your life, even the thought of considering to act on that same sin again can cause a real visceral reaction because we get to the point that we become so discerning that we immediately recognize the evil power tempting us and stand against it. You're not going to be free from temptation though as long as you're in the flesh, but a time will come when we will all be free from all evil even death, and God will be all in all.   

[Seth]

 :iagree:

[Caffus]

Jesus was perfect, He lived by the law of love. He touched lepers to heal them. Its against the law to touch them, He also healed on the Sabbath.  The purpose of the letter of the law is to condemn us so we know we need a Savoir. None can keep it.  Read The purpose of the law article at the additional materials link on mercifultruth.com website.

[rosered]

Jesus was perfect, He lived by the law of love. He touched lepers to heal them. Its against the law to touch them, He also healed on the Sabbath.  The purpose of the letter of the law is to condemn us so we know we need a Savoir. None can keep it.  Read The purpose of the law article at the additional materials link on mercifultruth.com website.

    :thumbsup:  He walked this earth as a human and was  the Son of God   

This is the pattern   we are also to   walk  in   and follow   after Him .

What is more important   being human   or being the   sons of God ?

We all should ask ourselves this question   and what does it mean to walk in the Spirit of God  who is Love ?

Healing   the wounded  and  spreading hope   also  raising the dead to Life was His number one   goal and it pleased  His Father      .

Because He always done and said what His FATHER  showed Him and told him to say    , walking in the Spirit of truth    .

[Tom]

It ain't always easy, but the answer to the original post is simply one word, and that is love. That's what we're supposed to share with all the lost souls in the world to show them the overwhelming power of God's love to change hearts and lives. I am a living example of that. I used to be lost in darkness, but I saw the light. I'm nothing special. I didn't deserve it, but God showed me unconditional love and gave me peace. All I can do now is share that with everybody I can because it really does make a difference in your life regardless of your circumstances. Faith can get you through all kinds of adversity because you never forget that God loves you and is just letting you be tested to strengthen your faith. Nothing in this world can separate us from God's love. Just keep the faith brothers and sisters.