I still go to church, do you?

[Caffus]

I go to a traditional Christian church...they claim the once saved always saved doctrine.  I never joined as a member.
I know their doctrine is false...even when I first started going while I was questioning and unsure of the doctrine of ET.
I knew once saved always saved was wrong...because of personal experiences I've had. But anyway...I've been a firm believer in UR, since March 24,2015. I've been praying for my church and the paster. It's a HUGE church.  Last week in his sermon he said the word hell at least 4 times.  I never said a thing.  Today he did not say the world hell even once and he spoke about when Jesus preached to the demons in prison. He also said those with extreme views are welcome here. He said God wants us to be unified in our faith but we all have different views. He said alot of other amazing things that I know God is speaking to him about the Truth of UR.  Please pray for him, that God will seal his truth in his heart and give him boldness to proclaim it in Gods way and time.  This is a prayer request and a PRAISE REPORT!  Yay!!! Our God is an awesome God!!!  :gimmefive:

[Psalm91:4]

That would be awesome if the Pastor of a huge gathering believed the good news!  Then preached it....  I can just imagine the puzzled look on all the faces in the pews....and   the growing concern that the preacher has gone off the deep end..LoL

I like that he welcomes the extreme-view people.    :gimmefive:      Kind of like a...come let us reason together...approach...that`s good.

And no, I do not attend a traditional "church" anymore.  I've had my share of living at parsonnages, missions, and church retreat centers. I have thought about calling various  Pastors in the area to set up a discussion with them in their offices to share UR.  Many teens / young people in this town,  friends of my children, have suggested that I start a church and that they would go.   
:laugh:

Only problem is I don't believe in that kind of set up any more.  I prefer the idea of all of us living together instead.  They didn't seem too interested in that idea....LoL

[Lazarus Short]

Besides the usual doctrinal can 'o worms involved in organized Christianity, which was probably enough on its own to end church attendance, I learned that almost all churches operate on a BUSINESS model.  Surely, followers of Jesus the Christ should be operating according to another paradigm:  love thy neighbor, rather than make a profit.

[rosered]

 
Its is awesome to pray on the behalf of   others ,  many of the prophets   done this Daniel    prayed  for those in Babylon as well as his own shortcomings

  Job prayed for his friends   who failed the test  of love your associate / neighbour   as  yourself and spoke wrong things about God

Many prayed to God on the behalf of the people ..........

Life and death are in the power of the tongue and those whom eat the fruit there of    ..

   the fruit of Life   being the HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH fruits   , love , peace , joy ..

It is good   when the   Spirit of /Truth Life is not quenched or put out !!

[Caffus]

As long as a church, ministry ect, only purpose is to serve God. It is good, I think.  We need to submit to Gods calling on or own lives.  I'm not trying to suggest we all should or shouldn't go to a church.  This website is a ministry. Jesus
spoke in churches sometimes.  Anyhow what ever we do and all that we have belongs to God.  But I believe this is the Good News that needs to be taught in the whole wolrd before the Second comming of our Savoir. We have a fire in our hearts to share it. God can spread it in anyway He chooses.  :dsunny:

[Tom]

I know some folks think they can do something to help from within the institution of systematized deception, but it's not my thing because, even if your pastor sees the light, the hierarchy will come down on him. He'll probably lose his job, and the congregation will be upset. I think all of that is unnecessary if we just realize that the ecclesia, the body of Christ, is a spiritual body all over the earth who can communicate and maybe even socialize in various ways that don't have to include supporting a building to do so. I think the money spent on the building would be better spent helping the brothers and sisters in need. I also think you're participating in the deception when you belong to an organization that dishonors God by preaching that he will torture most of humanity in fire forever. I think it's better to communicate with church people from outside their church. I think the best way is simply to share an accurate translation of scripture. Most of them will persecute you for doing so, but at least they will hear the truth. I don't see the benefit of being in the church to do so even if you don't get kicked out. I think participating in church ritual and doctrine is no different that hanging out at a bar getting drunk with folks to share the evangel with them, or hanging out a crack house and smoking up to share the evangel with folks there, or going to an orgy and participating just so you can share the evangel with folks there. I don't think we have to appear to condone sin to get folks to accept us so they will listen to us when we share the truth of the evangel with them. In fact, you're going to have a hard time explaining that you're not a hypocrite if you're going along with what everybody else is doing. Why subject yourself to preaching about hell when you don't believe it? I understand that you would like to see them know the truth, but I don't think belonging to their church is the best way to do it. I think the best way to reach the most people is to publish information online. You could also speak publicly if you want to do so. You can also just continue to study the inspired written word of God, and share the truth with anybody that God brings into your life in various circumstances. I think, if we just speak the truth when we have an opportunity, we don't have to go into the churches to do so. I pray for your "pastor" anyway, and I hope the whole congregation sees the light. Here's an older video series about a guy who was a pastor preaching about hell until one of his flock challenged him to check out universal reconciliation. He lost his job in the church, but he gained the blessing of the truth of scripture that all on earth and in the heavens will be reconciled to God through Christ's blood on the cross. There are several videos in the series, but they're worth watching to see what he has to say. I think YouTube is a good medium for publishing the truth of the evangel, but, if you do, know that you'll be persecuted by Christians and atheists. Just don't take it personally, and know your scripture. God bless you for trying to help those in darkness see the light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJoNxjUAAi8

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:

JOHN 1 ...3All things came into being through Him,


and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.


4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.


5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.


You are a city  set on a hill that cannot be hid !!

  you are called a a CITY !!    WOW !!     this city // you are   Gods    creation


MATT 5  Salt and Light


13"You are the salt of the earth;

but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again?


It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. :sigh:  [men loved darkness more than light because their deeds are evil /wrong  self serving ]


14"You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden;


15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket,

but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house....

  the   HOLY City of the  earth as it is in heaven      :dsunny:    :HeartThrob:    :icon_flower:      as God gives the increase of Light and Life     though the SPIRIT OF TRUTH     

[sheila]

what I've noticed is His words being fulfilled in Luke ch 16.  Parable of the shrewd manager caught wasting his master's possessions.

         [destroying the flocks etc..worthless shepherds..] when realizing he was losing his position..he lessened the debts to

        his master..so to be welcomed warmly by those that were debtors.

    I see the pope doing this and some churches now days.

   For the people of the world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind...than the people of the light.

   there is an account in the scriptures regarding one of Solomon's sons...the elder  people counseled that if he would lesson

  the burden on the people..that he would win the people's hearts 1 Kings 12;10  the younger peers said 'tell them,

  'My little finger is thicker than my father's waist"  of which he did.

   Jesus told the oppressive religious leaders..'ye bind up heavy loads on men's shoulder's impossible to bear,and yet not are willing to lift

  your little finger"

[rosered]

   
I  understand what you are saying Sheila !! :thumbsup:

I also wonder if Jesus loved them / religious  leaders  in that day ,  enough to tell them the truth and they hated  Him for it  :sigh:

[Tom]

I think so, sis, and some like Nicodemus believed him.

[rosered]

I think so, sis, and some like Nicodemus believed him.

AMEN Tom !!! :dsunny:

The Light penetrated the darkness / ignorance
  and Nicodemus did not harden his heart    but let the Light shine in it      :HeartThrob:  Nor did Saul / Paul on the road to Damascus

[lomarah]

Yep I really feel you guys nailed it 100%. The Truth was not to condemn them but to set them free from their slavery.  :HeartThrob:  That, I truly believe, (and the Bible clearly states) is always the Heart's motive of our Good and Gentle Shepherd and Father.  :HeartThrob:

He is Love, thank God.  :HeartThrob:

[Caffus]

I go and I pray for them..while I'm there and at home. I haven't given any donations since I've come to the Truth of UR.  I love the people in the churhes and pray for them to have eyes that can see and ears that can here.  :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

 
:Pray: I do pray! ..and also for all pastors that they would perceive U.R. and just start, first off, speaking some of the verses..!   :happy3:

[CHB]

They will someday marie, speak the truth that is. What is it that Paul said, "how can they hear without a preacher". I have wondered if we shouldn't go to these Churches and speak the truth? I do go to a Church just down the road from me. I am and have been friends with the pastor pretty much all my life and he ask me to sing now and then, also to do Bible Study, so, I get to say some things that normally most could not say, that is why I still go there. It is an Independant Baptist Church. The Pastor does have some good things to say although I don't agree with some things he teaches. How can we be a light or anything to these people if we never see them or talk to them? I don't know, I may be wrong but I don't think we have this knowledge to just keep it to ourselves.

CHB 

[Shev]

This definitely seems a matter for conscience, but my perspective is that the system itself is the problem. I liken it to a spiritual prison, that cannot be changed by good intentions. If we are trying to demonstrate freedom to people, is it possible to do that within the confines of their prison cell? I am always open to talk about Christ, but the system is pretty much preset to focusing on man, not Christ.

Ultimately, the call of freedom and the herald of Christ is always "a voice crying in the wilderness". There is a reason John the Baptist was not "a voice crying in the synagogue".....

[Abigail]

We don't go to a church since almost 9 years, not because of UR, but because we were sent away from our church when we questioned tithing.  :2c:

Since then we had actually more fellowship with other christians than we had before. :friendstu:

I sometimes wonder whether we should be part of a church or something like that. Well meaning friends and family keep admonishing us to be part of a local church or homechurch. I do not know how to answer them from a biblical standpoint. In Acts and the letters of Paul, it seems to me people had special gatherings, and Paul gave some advice/rules for these gatherings. Yet we don't have such a thing.  :dontknow: We wonder especially because our lifes set an example to our children.

[Tom]

I agree that we need to share the truth with them, but it's kind of tricky doing that in their church. I think it's better to get them away from their church on neutral turf where there's no offense perceived to the institution which has welcomed you into its midst because the truth will offend those who have been taught to believe otherwise. I think the best way is to just share an accurate translation of scripture to show how God really is love and really is the savior of all mankind. Scripture like that is not canceled out by other verses that are actually mistranslation of the ancient manuscripts. If you can show them that their inaccurate translation is what the problem is, that helps them understand the truth. But you'll get plenty of push back from their authority figures who have to represent the doctrine of their church. That's why I think it's better to have one on one communication with fellow believers outside their church who haven't yet received the revelation of universal reconciliation. They're going to be afraid of the word "heresy" because that's what we believe is considered to be in their church, but you'll have to explain that it's their church doctrine that invalidates the word of God. That will really get the pastor's face red. So I say you're better off discussing it outside the church because you're going to basically have to prove to them that their church that they've been going to their whole lives is wrong and teaching a lie. Nobody wants to hear that about something they believe in. You can do it in the spirit of love by sharing an accurate translation of scripture, but eventually they're going to have to be told that what their church has been telling them all their lives is not what scripture says about God. It's a traumatic experience to give up something you believe in, but it's worth it for the sake of truth. I couldn't believe it when I first heard about universal reconciliation. I had to spend a lot of time searching online and reading a lot of information before I became convinced mostly because, after finding an accurate translation of scripture and seeing what it said, I could no longer deny it. If you feel called to witness in the lion's den, more power to you, but it ain't my thing. God bless you for having a burden for them though.

[Tom]

Sis, don't let them put a guilt trip on you for not belonging to a church because we are the ecclesia, the body of Christ, not bound by space or time. I say just fellowship with fellow believers wherever whenever. I agree with you questioning your old church about tithing because that is an old Hebrew law that the ecclesia is not subject to. All we're required to do is love our brothers and sisters. If you see some in need, help them out, but you're not required to pay the mortgage for a church building or the salary for a pastor or to sacrifice a tenth of your earnings for anything other than your home, your utilities, and food for your family. The church is a business that you don't have to feel required to invest in, and it doesn't even provide you with the truth to console you. So what's the point of belonging to one? You are right now a member of the ecclesia, the body of Christ, and enjoying communication with your fellow believers right here on this forum. When God brings people into your life in the real world, use the opportunity to share the truth with them, but I really don't see the point of going to church to do it because most of what you're going to hear in church is contrary to what we believe. Believers who are like minded can meet in your homes or at the park in the summer. You don't have to support a building for meeting to share lies. Just get together wherever you can to share the truth.   

[lastpost]

I have been attending a small peaceful church weekly for over two decades. Here, one chooses the Leadership of Jesus Christ and pledges to endeavour to be guided in thoughts, words and deeds by the teaching and example of Jesus Christ. We are few but that is fine.

Christ forever speaks from within

The one who listens can hear

Words from the Living Word

That the letter cannot speak

Spirit communes

Truth reveals

Life soars

The Living God is Spirit

Like a rushing River

Splashes eternity on all who thirst

Nothing is greater than Spirit

Revealed shadows retreat

Wisdom seeks the Saviour Himself

Freed of furniture piled by the mind

Christ is the Great Instructor

[Caffus]

I have been persecuted on Facebook by some of my ET believing family members, for sharing UR. I've been made fun of and told my beliefs are of satan. It hurts...but I wish to follow Christ alone. To go were I believe He wants me to. To speak only what He wants, to love as He taught us, to love even our enemies. Not to repay evil for evil, but to overcome evil with good.  :dsunny:
I hate..believe me hate the lie of ET and I know how it can torture a loving heart who thinks they must believe it ET to have a relationship with God.  Now that I know the Truth..I can love Him and trust Him like never before.

[CHB]

We are very few also, I guess that is why I continue to go there. I look at it like this. No one has all of the truth, not even Universalists. We were all at the same place the rest of the world is at now, God just saw fit to give us a little more understanding of his word. Everyone has a different level of understanding, some have more than others but that doesn't make them any better or worse than the rest. We all learn from one another. I don't think things are the way they should be. Religion is just like everything else it is a seperation of minds. Blacks keep to themselves, whites keep to themselves and so it is with all other races. Look what a mess we have with that. This is true with religion, all of the different denominations meet with those who believe as they do. This is not the way it is meant to be and it will not be so in the next life. Can't wait for that. I have noticed even at family reunions that family members stick with their own imediate family. I believe this is why we have divisions in everything. We have to learn to get alone at some point in time.

CHB 

[NightFlight]

I'm single; so I feel really out of place in church.  I've decided to go it alone.

[TurtleJoy]

I haven't been to church in a while but I met a very nice guy on Craigslist that is starting a local church. It'll be a saved by grace rightly dividing the word of truth type of church and so far in our email conversations he hasn't focused on ect. I've talked with other saved by grace people on paltalk and they seem to model after how Paul teaches and so they don't focus on hell a lot when they talk so I hope that when this gentlemen starts his church it'll have nice fellowship where I don't have to listen to ect teaching. I really want fellowship in my life but it's so hard to find a church that is out and open of the real Good News so maybe if I find one that doesn't put focus on hell in the teaching, then things will be okay

[Tom]

I think we can fellowship here and wherever whenever it happens sometimes when you least expect it. I think we just need to study the word of God and stay ready to defend the faith and share God's love with those in need which is very often not in church but on the street somewhere. The ecclesia, the body of Christ, is a spiritual global body of believers who have the advantage of the Net to communicate anytime. You can even use video chat if you want to see your brothers and sisters. You don't get to give real hugs or share pot lucks, but you get to share God's word and spirit which is what's most important. Even though people disagree about some things here on the forum, it is a blessing to be able to come together anytime you want to. You don't have to wait until Sunday or Wednesday, and you don't have to go anywhere else but right in front of your computer. You also don't have to worry about paying the mortgage or utilities of a separate building from your house. If it wasn't for the World Wide Web, most of us never would have gotten to know each other. Yeah, sometimes we might get on each other's nerves, but that happens in all families. We're blessed to be able to share our lives with each other even if it is virtually, and you don't have to worry about how much you're going to have to hear about going to hell just to be able to socialize with other people in a place where you know you really don't belong anymore once you believe universal reconciliation. I guess it comes down to what's really important. I understand why some people want to be with other people in the real world, but I don't think it should be at the sacrifice of the truth because we're supposed to worship God in spirit and truth. I've looked online for local like minded believers and gatherings, but the closest thing I found was a Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship in another town kind of close to me. It looked too formal for my taste though. I think the best thing to do is gather in your homes if you have like minded believers close to you, but that's just my thing. I say we should just be thankful for the fellowship we have here. Some come to find out what it's all about, and some who have been around for awhile help newcomers. I think that's what fellowship is all about. There will be differences of opinion on various topics because everybody has a different perspective, but it's good to get together and communicate. So I know some folks want to go to church, but I'm going to remain an ex-churcher in the ecclesia, the body of Christ, online and in the real world if I happen to bump into you on the street somewhere. God bless you all.