24 Reasons Hell Is Real

[jabcat]

Gary is requesting focused responses to this article that may be used elsewhere to refute ET.

http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/apologetics/880-24-reasons-why-i-believe-in-hell?tmpl=component&print=1&layout=default&page=


"Some false teachers today would like us to think that everybody will eventually get to heaven. Don't believe them.

William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army and a man who dedicated his life to lifting the poor out of sin and poverty, reportedly made this statement: "Most Christian organizations would like to send their workers to Bible college for five years. I would like to send our workers to hell for five minutes. That would prepare them for a lifetime of compassionate ministry."

Booth never suggested that the desperate people he served were "already in hell." He believed in a real, eternal hell, and it drove him to rescue people from both their current plight and future perdition.

Shortly before his death in 1912, Booth warned prophetically that he saw coming to the church "forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration ... a heaven without a hell."

In today's theological fog, his ominous caveat is unfolding. Even some who claim to believe the Bible are having second thoughts about eternal judgment, and others have rejected the notion of judgment altogether. The name usually given this teaching is Universalism.

Universalism basically is the belief that all people will be saved. Jesus' death and resurrection will automatically, or at least eventually, save the whole human race. Personal repentance and faith in Christ are not necessary for going to heaven. The Christian mission is reduced to announcing to people the "good news" that they are already saved.

But does Scripture teach that everyone will be saved? There is overwhelming biblical evidence to the contrary.

I'd like to offer 24 reasons to reject Universalism. You may be able to add a few of your own.

1. Jesus made both repentance and faith prerequisites for forgiveness. "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3, NKJV). "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).

2. The "water of life" is offered to all, but not all receive it or even desire it. "Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17).

3. Scripture teaches that there will be a judgment after death. "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27).

4. Those who have not had a true conversion will experience a judgment for sin that the Bible describes as "the second death." "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

5. Contrary to Universalist beliefs, Jesus' teaching indicates that most of humanity is on a broad path that leads to destruction. "'Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us," and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from. ... Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity"'" (Luke 13:24-27).

6. Jesus spoke often of a terrible place of judgment for those outside His kingdom rule. "'The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth'" (Matt. 13:41-42).

7. The Bible teaches both the love of God and His sure judgment of sin. Trusting in Christ's payment for our sins saves us from this coming judgment. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:8-9).

8. In one of the most loving verses in the Bible, Jesus issues eternal options. "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life'" (John 3:16).

9. Scripture teaches that there is unending, eternal judgment for those who do not know God and who do not respond in faith to the gospel. "The Lord Jesus [will be] revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (2 Thess. 1:7-9).

10. Jesus emphatically taught that a spiritual birth is essential to entering the kingdom of heaven. "'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God'" (John 3:3).

11. In answer to a very clear question about what is necessary for salvation, Paul gave a very clear answer: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts. 16:31).

12. Jesus gave no indication that many roads lead to God. He forcefully stated that He was the only way. "'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me'" (John 14:6).

13. The early preachers of the church clearly preached that Jesus is the only way to salvation. "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12; see also 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:3-4; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).

14. According to Scripture, only those who receive Jesus Christ and believe in Him are children of God. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12).

15. The gospel is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes" (Rom. 1:16; see also 10:9).

16. Rather than teaching that those without faith in Christ are already saved, the Bible teaches that they are already under judgment. Faith in Christ brings us out of condemnation and into right relationship with God. "'He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God'" (John 3:18).

17. Only those whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life are granted access into the eternal city of God. "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15; see also 21:27).

18. People are not automatically righteous. Only when we declare faith in Jesus Christ does God declare us righteous in His sight. "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

19. Eternal life comes only through a relationship with God. We cannot know the Father unless we know the Son. "'And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent'" (John 17:3).

20. The cross of Christ is where payment for our sins was made. Only when we believe this are we saved. "'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up [on a cross], that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life'" (John 3:14-15).

21. Only those who have the Son of God have eternal life. "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life" (1 John 5:11-12).

In addition to these verses, the story of Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11 provides hard evidence against Universalism. Cornelius was devout, prayed often, gave generously to the poor and even received an angelic visitation. Yet God went to great lengths to get the gospel to him so he could come to know Jesus and be saved.

22. Added to the avalanche of scriptural evidence, there are also practical reasons for rejecting Universalism. History teaches that acceding to Universalism sets the church on a slippery slide toward theological liberalism. Soon all confidence in Scripture is lost and the uniqueness of the Christian gospel evaporates.

23. If we embrace Universalism, there is no urgency to evangelize or imperative to do missions. In fact, evangelism and missions would have to be redefined. We need look no further than most of the mainline denominations to see what happens to evangelism when Universalism is prevalent.

24. If Universalism is finally proved right, nothing will have been lost by our continued urgency in winning people to faith in Christ. But if it is false and we embrace it, then everything will be forever lost--including people who do not know Christ.

Unbroken Hearts

It needs to be said clearly that God's character is not on trial. The judge of all the earth will do what is right (see Gen. 18:25). Our faith is on trial. Our hearts are on trial. But God is not on trial. Whatever judgment He makes regarding those who have not responded to the gospel will be executed according to His standards of equally perfect righteousness and love.

When we ponder God's mercy, this whole issue is inverted. Because God is perfectly holy, the wonder is not that some will be lost. The greater wonder is that anyone from rebellious humanity will be saved! Only Christ's work on the cross could reconcile us to God.

God has put down the most massive roadblock possible to stop humanity's mad rush toward hell. He sent His Son. God intervened personally through Christ. His sacrifice on the cross paid the penalty for our sins. This is the good news for all who will believe and receive Him.

Espousing Universalism is sad. But rejecting it with no impact on our hearts or change in our priorities is sinister. If we believe that people are lost outside of Christ (and they are), and that faith in Christ is the only way of salvation (and it is), what could possibly be a higher priority than getting the gospel as far as we can as fast as we can?

To pronounce people "saved" who are obviously enslaved by darkness, deception and the devil is surely the cruelest of jokes. We are sent to a lost world with a gospel of power. Our message gives the spiritually blind their sight and liberates those who are chained by Satan. We do not preach that people are forgiven but that they can be forgiven.

I would not want to stand before Jesus Christ as a Universalist. But neither would I want to stand before the Lord as an evangelical who was not evangelistic. What a serious accounting must await us if we believe in eternal torment for those without faith in Christ--and yet do nothing! A recovery of biblical truth and compassionate evangelism are the twin screaming needs of the American church.

The apostle Paul said he would be willing to give up his place in Christ if by such a sacrifice others would be saved (see Rom. 9:2-3). He believed all people outside Christ were lost, and it left him with a broken heart.

More than encroaching Universalism, it is our unbroken hearts that often impede evangelism. Many Christians today have never even heard of "a burden for the lost." The harvest is huge and ready to be reaped by those who are willing to sow first in tears (see Ps. 126:5-6).

Right theology will only indict us if we do not recapture the evangelistic imperative. We must believe the truth, and we must act on what we believe. Let's not just reject faulty theology; let's embrace those who need Jesus.

David Shibley is president of Global Advance, a ministry that provides training and resources for thousands of pastors in developing nations."

[micah7:9]

One read, but what stuck out the most to me anyway, was that the comments offered are from the basic foundation of orthodox religion and theology expressed from the KJV or any Bible that refuses to omit the word "hell." Fear and control is his forte. The writer of 13 epistles did not speak or teach of "hell" nor did Paul speak or teach of a place of eternal torment of any shade. The "hell" of orthodox religion and theology is a sand foundation, built on the word "hell" that has no description in the Bible as a place of burning forever in flames of a fiery torment. Perhaps a study of Love and forgiveness in even the KJV would, produce a happy face.
"6. Jesus spoke often of a terrible place of judgment for those outside His kingdom rule."
Now if David Shibley can show me just where the "often" is, I maybe able to start to take him serious. Like I said just my first read. :HeartThrob: :Peace2:

[sheila]

  Jeremiah 23;25   I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say 'I had a dream,I had a dream!"

  How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets,who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?

  They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name,just as their fathers forgot my name

  through baal worship.......for what has straw to do with grain,says the Lord...........[.only grain can feed and nourish.....

  only love can conquer all and never fail.]

   Is not my word like fire? declares the Lord;and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

[sheila]

1 John 4;8-20  Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.; Whoever does not love does not know God,for God is love

  This is how God showed His love among us;He sent His one and only son into the world that we might live through Him.

  This is love;not that we loved God ,but that He loved us,and sent His son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

  Dear friends,since God so loved us we also ought to love one another. No-one has ever seen God,but if we love one another

  God lives in us and His love is made complete in us................

  v 19 ,20  we love because He first loved us.  'If anyone says 'I love God but hates his brother,he is a liar"

  1 Cor 13;  Love   and now I will show you the most excellent way...IF I SPEAK IN THE TONGUES OF ANGELS AND MEN;

BUT HAVE NOT LOVE,I AM ONLY A RESOUNDING GONG OR CLASHING CYMBOL.......

.......v 4 love is patient,love is kind. It does not envy,it does not boast,it is not proud. It is not rude..it is not self-seeking

  it is not rude and it is not easily angered..IT KEEPS NO RECORD OF WRONGS.  Love does not delight in evil,but rejoices in

the truth. It always protects; always trusts; always persevere's.   LOVE NEVER FAILS


   When I was a child I thought like a child, I talked like a child,I reasoned like a child.

    When I became a man I put childish ways behind me.

     TIME TO GROW UP IN LOVE AND THE FULLNESS OF THE CHRIST...TIME FOR YOU TO GROW UP IN LOVE

    IF WE ARE OUT OF OUR MIND IT IS FOR THE SAKE OF GOD; IF WE ARE IN OUR RIGHT MIND IT IS FOR YOU

  FOR CHRIST'S LOVE COMPELS US FOR WE ARE CONVINCED THAT ONE DIED FOR ALL' AND THEREFORE ALL DIED.

AND HE DIED SO THAT THOSE WHO LIVE SHOULD NO LONGER LIVE FOR THEMSELVES' BUT FOR HIM WHO DIED FOR THEM

AND WAS RAISED AGAIN.

    ALL THIS IS FROM GOD WHO RECONCILED US TO HIMSELF THROUGH CHRIST;AND GAVE US THE MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION

[rosered]

 
My biggest  problem with this "type" of teaching is how much  salvation depends on them, as they use the Name of Jesus CHRIST   to win souls  under their teaching ...

Hell   and fire   and graves   are for the old man of sin none denies this in the UR camps  , but we know   the LORD HIMSELF makes the new creatures in Christ     
Once the True God   has gotten a hold of you ,  you will never be the same   as you were  before  , and this is Gods work
Who will deny God His holy work and glory ???
Best you can be is a partaker with it  , its not yours to boast about   , we are the works "'everyone"'   is the work of the Lord  , everything is  HIS !

And for me  just because you physically die does not mean the end all   for salvation

  They will be hard pressed to explain      Jesus Christ being the all authority   until He Himself is  subject to God  and God be all in all 

  The tormented forever and ever  is never applied to mankind  , it is however applied to the lake of fire , as being  such by poor concepts understanding  of wording

  and a second death is a death /end ??   For those who have not been called out of the world in the here and now  and been baptized in Christ death   , will experience    purging /cleansing    , the reason its a second death is because they have physically died  first ,but everyone suffers here  , for doing good or for doing evil

and a lake of fire is a small area 

The simple  answer to me is  JESUS CHRIST IS THE EVERYTHING  and if everything is and come though and  made by Him    and He is the beginning and end
   and   behold   I make  all things NEW      Rev 21    Then they sure will be made new in Christ     and doubting the Lord and all His  work and   one   great work is abolishing death itself    and that is close to blasphemy imo.. :sigh:
   

[sheila]

   yE KNOW NOT WHAT SPIRIT YE ARE OF...........jESUS SPOKE THIS WORD TO THE SONS OF THUNDER.......

   AND IN THE REVEALING OF JESUS CHRIST WHEN THE SEVEN THUNDERS SPOKE...I HEARD A VOICE FROM HEAVEN SAY

    'SEAL UP WHAT THE SEVEN THUNDERS SAID AND DO NOT WRITE IT DOWN"

   YOU HAVE PEOPLE THERE WHO HOLD TO THE TEACHING OF BALAAM WHO TAUGHT BALAAK TO ENTICE THE PEOPLE

TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS  NUMBERS CH 22,23,24,25

  2 peter 2;15  Jude 11  They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam,son of Beor who loved

  the way of wickedness.   Woe to them,they have taken the way of Cain[kill his brother] they have rushed for profit[rushed

judgement/cursed man who God has blessed for wages of sin/mammon]   into Balaam's error;

they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion  Numbers 16;1-39

   Rev 12;16  But the earth helped the woman by opening it's mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of

  his mouth[curses...cursed is the earth for thy sake Adam it shall bring forth briars and thorns.]

    The I AM[in the ]BUSH....

[CHB]

1. Jesus made both repentance and faith prerequisites for forgiveness. "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3, NKJV). "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).
Yes, and all will repent as it states in (Phil. 2:10) every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

2. The "water of life" is offered to all, but not all receive it or even desire it. "Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17).
Every one will receive it as it says in (Phil. 2:10). Few are chosen now but there will come a time when all will bow the knee in worship.

3. Scripture teaches that there will be a judgment after death. "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27).
Yes, but we will be judged according to what Jesus accomplished on the cross.It is not according to our works because our works do not save us, (Eph. 2:8-9) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.

4. Those who have not had a true conversion will experience a judgment for sin that the Bible describes as "the second death." "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).
Who isn't in one of these catagories? The second death is a spiritual death, a dying to sin. Or a repentance from these works.

5. Contrary to Universalist beliefs, Jesus' teaching indicates that most of humanity is on a broad path that leads to destruction. "'Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us," and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from. ... Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity"'" (Luke 13:24-27).
The kingdom of God and Salvation are two different things.  Jesus said "I am only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The kingdom of God was promised to the Israelites, salvation is promised to the world. 

6. Jesus spoke often of a terrible place of judgment for those outside His kingdom rule. "'The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth'" (Matt. 13:41-42).
If this is such a horrible place why isn't there screaming and hollering? Gnashing of teeth means to grind one teeth. wailing means to express grief or pain. I believe these people will be angry and sorry for being shown their incorrect ways.

7. The Bible teaches both the love of God and His sure judgment of sin. Trusting in Christ's payment for our sins saves us from this coming judgment. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:8-9).
Absolutely. Notice what it says about "while we were still sinners" and now "we are justified by his blood".

8. In one of the most loving verses in the Bible, Jesus issues eternal options. "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life'" (John 3:16).
Everyone will believe in him at some point in time. It doesn't say that God so loved the world that he gave his son to save only those who believed. That would leave salvation in our hands, not Jesus'.

9. Scripture teaches that there is unending, eternal judgment for those who do not know God and who do not respond in faith to the gospel. "The Lord Jesus [will be] revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (2 Thess. 1:7-9).
According to this we must work for our salvation. The word "everlasting" is a mistranslation and can only apply to God.

10. Jesus emphatically taught that a spiritual birth is essential to entering the kingdom of heaven. "'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God'" (John 3:3).
Yes, and everyone will be born again, in their own order.

11. In answer to a very clear question about what is necessary for salvation, Paul gave a very clear answer: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts. 16:31).
It also says "no one can come to me unless the Father draw/drag him". (John 6:44) Jesus also said "if I be lifted up I will draw ALL MEN TO ME (John 12:32)

12. Jesus gave no indication that many roads lead to God. He forcefully stated that He was the only way. "'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me'" (John 14:6).
Absolutely true.

13. The early preachers of the church clearly preached that Jesus is the only way to salvation. "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12; see also 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:3-4; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).
Absolutely true.

14. According to Scripture, only those who receive Jesus Christ and believe in Him are children of God. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12).
Absolutely true but God isn't calling everyone today.

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15. The gospel is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes" (Rom. 1:16; see also 10:9).
Not everyone will believe at this time nor is God calling everyone at this time. (Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

16. Rather than teaching that those without faith in Christ are already saved, the Bible teaches that they are already under judgment. Faith in Christ brings us out of condemnation and into right relationship with God. "'He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God'" (John 3:18).
No one can say that Jesus Christ is Lord but by the Holy Spirit  (1John 4:15) Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God (Phil. 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God.

17. Only those whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life are granted access into the eternal city of God. "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15; see also 21:27).
The Book of Life is Jesus and every name will be written there.

18. People are not automatically righteous. Only when we declare faith in Jesus Christ does God declare us righteous in His sight. "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).
(Rom. 4:16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be BY GRACE; TO THE END THE PROMISE MIGHT BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED;

19. Eternal life comes only through a relationship with God. We cannot know the Father unless we know the Son. "'And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent'" (John 17:3).
Aoin life will come to all because Jesus is the Saviour of the world.

20. The cross of Christ is where payment for our sins was made. Only when we believe this are we saved. "'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up [on a cross], that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life'" (John 3:14-15).
If I be lifted up I will draw ALL MEN TO ME (John 6:44).

21. Only those who have the Son of God have eternal life. "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life" (1 John 5:11-12).
(1Cor. 15:28) And when ALL THINGS shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

In addition to these verses, the story of Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11 provides hard evidence against Universalism. Cornelius was devout, prayed often, gave generously to the poor and even received an angelic visitation. Yet God went to great lengths to get the gospel to him so he could come to know Jesus and be saved.
Universalists pray, give to the poor, but no one can come to Christ except God call him. Jesus told his disciples "I have chosen you, you haven't chosen me".

22. Added to the avalanche of scriptural evidence, there are also practical reasons for rejecting Universalism. History teaches that acceding to Universalism sets the church on a slippery slide toward theological liberalism. Soon all confidence in Scripture is lost and the uniqueness of the Christian gospel evaporates.
Not true at all.

23. If we embrace Universalism, there is no urgency to evangelize or imperative to do missions. In fact, evangelism and missions would have to be redefined. We need look no further than most of the mainline denominations to see what happens to evangelism when Universalism is prevalent.

24. If Universalism is finally proved right, nothing will have been lost by our continued urgency in winning people to faith in Christ. But if it is false and we embrace it, then everything will be forever lost--including people who do not know Christ.
Jesus said "I have chosen you". Paul was a chosen vessel(1Cor. 1:1)  (1Cor. 1:2) Unto the Church of God which is at Corinth, to them that ARE SANTIFIED IN CHRIST JESUS, CALLED TO BE SAINTS. (Eph.. 1:4) According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.  (Col. 1:20) And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF; by him, I say, WHETHER THEY BE THINGS IN EARTH, OR THINGS IN HEAVEN.

CHB

[marie glen]

Good job CHB! tho I haven't read your post yet, as I want to look at the 24 myself first.. as I do love a good quiz, etc!! :smile:

Then I will surely read your responses.. :thumbsup:

[joeteekay]

Me too. Good job CHB. I plan to do a similar response like your format.
I too like quizzes.

[micah7:9]

CHB....Very well done showing that UR is built on a foundation of Love.
Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  :dsunny:

[sheila]

 to number 22 I would add to the statement regarding theological liberalness..this.....for the creature was subjected to vanity ,not

of it's own will..but by the will of He who subjected it..in order that the whole creation may be SET FREE INTO THE GLORIOUS

  LIBERTY OF THE SONS OF GOD.

[lastpost]

Personally, I would not blame old General Booth.

In my opinion, if General Booth were asked today, he might say that he may have been ignorant of the love of God in its fuller measure, that he misrepresented Love Divine as he was laughed at scornfully in his sometime bigoted approach of salvation, yet he was sincere. And today he would tell the outcast that the love of God is even in the gutter and even those closest to the Saviour have never understood His Love.

Old orthodox teaching had its place, it played its part in his role, man was outside, he was separate.

The Son of God approaches the suffering.

The suffering is to cleanse the path for His approach.

He is coming to lift them up, as He has done for many.

Man is being raised up, the old flasks are bursting, new Wine of Life flows seeking more space as a river bursting its banks.

There is a message which has more Spirit as the old has been glossed by man's mind.

God is becoming more Divine and less human.

Jesus is for the human race which will become the Christ Race.

Many may doubt, but implanted in man is something which responds to the Person of Jesus and knowledge of Him.

The Spirit can achieve what the letter cannot.

Humanity will have Jesus as He is.

[CHB]

Thanks to you all.  :HeartThrob: I feel like I didn't say enough but I was pressed for time. I am sure you all can add a great deal more than I have.   :dsunny:

CHB

[marie glen]

1. Jesus made both repentance and faith prerequisites for forgiveness. "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3, NKJV). "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).

Nothing to argue with there.. "For all this I considered in my heart... all things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrifices, and to him that does not sacrifice.. This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all.." (from Eccles 9)

2. The "water of life" is offered to all, but not all receive it or even desire it. "Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17).

"And no one, after drinking old wine wishes for new; for he says, `The old is good enough.`" (Lk 5:39)
"All will remember and turn to the LORD and all families will worship before Him." (Ps 22:27)

3. Scripture teaches that there will be a judgment after death. "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27).

When He returns He will divide the sheep from the goats (Mt 25:32).. the wheat from the tares..   "Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn" (Rev 16:14-16, Armageddon) "but gather the wheat into my barn." (Mt 24:29,31) - Two Harvests-Revelation 14

"..the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment-krisis-decision,judgment" - Strong's #2920 (Jn 5:28,29) "There will be weeping and knashing of teeth.." "The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here." (Mt 12:42)

He is the passover lamb, the unleavened brd, firstfruits(=1st advent) 2nd advent=3 peaks of long 2nd advent, trumpets [10 days/1000yrs later] day of atonement/judgment [5 days/500yrs later] Tabernacles,Rev 21:3-KJV

4. Those who have not had a true conversion will experience a judgment for sin that the Bible describes as "the second death." "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

Worse case scenario - "any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people" Lev 23:29 - agelasting LOF..
Lev 16:33-"atonement for all the ppl" (also, not sentencing til aFter judgment -even those of rev 19:20 thrown to LOF are not persons but institutions of man active in the day of the Lord's return

5. Contrary to Universalist beliefs, Jesus' teaching indicates that most of humanity is on a broad path that leads to destruction. "'Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us," and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from. ... Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity"'" (Luke 13:24-27).

Again, the judgement (fiery) in the day of His return, when the goats and sheep, tares and wheat are separated.. the tares to Armageddon (Rev 16:14,15,16)

6. Jesus spoke often of a terrible place of judgment for those outside His kingdom rule. "'The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth'" (Matt. 13:41-42).

Indeed, at His fiery judgment/arrival (with fire and angels 2 Thess 1:7,8) and also for all those who rise "still in their sins" an inferior resurrection followed by the Day/Age? Of Judgment (lasting 500 yrs?) at the end of which, all those not believing will go to the LOF ageduring..

7. The Bible teaches both the love of God and His sure judgment of sin. Trusting in Christ's payment for our sins saves us from this coming judgment. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:8-9).

While we all were still sinners, He died for all of us.. ("the mystery hidden for ages, Christ in us".. the only mystery hidden?)

8. In one of the most loving verses in the Bible, Jesus issues eternal options. "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life'" (John 3:16).

Is God Perfect? Perfect makes no mistakes. Loses nothing.
Surely He could see all possibilities, before ever starting the work of creation? And surely He has done all things just the way He has, in order to bring about the BEST of all possibilities? (Surely?!) Because He is Perfect, the 'end' result of all this (human history) can onLy be the utter-best-one-possible. Why in the world would we expect any thing less of Him?

9. Scripture teaches that there is unending, eternal judgment for those who do not know God and who do not respond in faith to the gospel. "The Lord Jesus [will be] revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" (2 Thess. 1:7-9).

"Ever - lasting" is as we know aionian, age-lasting... (worse case scenario)

10. Jesus emphatically taught that a spiritual birth is essential to entering the kingdom of heaven. "'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God'" (John 3:3).

Amen, no dispute there!

11. In answer to a very clear question about what is necessary for salvation, Paul gave a very clear answer: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" (Acts. 16:31).

Examine ancient Atonement Day.. Israel's national and collective annual repentance, forgiveness and reconciliation day..

'And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years.. forty-nine years. Then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, on the Day of Atonement throughout all your land." (Lev 25:8,9)

12. Jesus gave no indication that many roads lead to God. He forcefully stated that He was the only way. "'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me'" (John 14:6).

Amen, nothing to argue with there.. But do we have to ignore "how that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation" 2 cor 5:19..? Jesus saying "if I be lifted up form the earth I will draw all to me" (Jn 12;32, italics are words added by the translators).. etc, etc, etc..

13. The early preachers of the church clearly preached that Jesus is the only way to salvation. "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12; see also 1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:3-4; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).

"God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation" (2 cor 5:19)

14. According to Scripture, only those who receive Jesus Christ and believe in Him are children of God. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" (John 1:12).

Where does it say after this life no possibility of repentance? Jesus told the pharisees unless they repented they would "die in their sins".. oh to stand before a Holy Holy God, still in ones' sins! .."there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" .."outer darkness"..

15. The gospel is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes" (Rom. 1:16; see also 10:9).

ppl think I'm a little crazy, but I believe judgment day will last 500 years and it's only at the end of that day (of intense review for all in heaven and earth) that it is said "those not believing will go to the LOF, the 2nd death.. after experiencing being resurrected and witnessing and living through a long day of the review of all human history, etc., who's not going to "believe"? Doesn't it stand to reason YHVH would make good use of Judgment Day?? To hammer home what we have all learned by taking this unavoidable journey/lesson.. unavoidable if there's to be rationality that is..

16. Rather than teaching that those without faith in Christ are already saved, the Bible teaches that they are already under judgment. Faith in Christ brings us out of condemnation and into right relationship with God. "'He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God'" (John 3:18).

I don't see anything at all in that verse, or any other, which says, there is no chance for rehabilitation/repentance except during this very brief lifetime of being born blindly in error.. When Christ returns will He find any logic whatsoever upon earth?

17. Only those whose names are in the Lamb's Book of Life are granted access into the eternal city of God. "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:15; see also 21:27).

How does one get their name written into the Lamb's Book of Life?? Where? Where? does it say only in this brief lifetime is there rehabilitation, salvation, reconciliation..? where??? Don't these (E.T.) folks have Hebrew and Greek Lexicons??!!

18. People are not automatically righteous. Only when we declare faith in Jesus Christ does God declare us righteous in His sight.
Amen!!

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).
Amen, amen!!

19. Eternal life comes only through a relationship with God. We cannot know the Father unless we know the Son. "'And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent'" (John 17:3).

After almost 2000 years of being passed down through human hands, the good news has lost some of the GLORY of its message. And after almost 2000 years of being made up of humans, has picked up some baggage along the way.

20. The cross of Christ is where payment for our sins was made. Only when we believe this are we saved. "'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up [on a cross], that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life'" (John 3:14-15).

"If I be lifted up on the cross I will draw all to me" Jesus, Jn 12:32. (Italics are added words to the text.)

21. Only those who have the Son of God have eternal life. "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life" (1 John 5:11-12).

Amen, this is eternally true.

In addition to these verses, the story of Cornelius in Acts 10 and 11 provides hard evidence against Universalism. Cornelius was devout, prayed often, gave generously to the poor and even received an angelic visitation. Yet God went to great lengths to get the gospel to him so he could come to know Jesus and be saved.

I daresay God just might be able to do so for everyone.. Oh how we gReatly under estimate Him.. and His Great Plan Of Salvation!

22. Added to the avalanche of scriptural evidence, there are also practical reasons for rejecting Universalism. History teaches that acceding to Universalism sets the church on a slippery slide toward theological liberalism. Soon all confidence in Scripture is lost and the uniqueness of the Christian gospel evaporates.

Universalism as all paths lead to reconciliation is not "Universal Reconciliation". Is God perfect or flawed? Is He all powerful? Or does the will of another prevent His will? Where? is the verse which states it?? It is His will that none perish..

23. If we embrace Universalism, there is no urgency to evangelize or imperative to do missions. In fact, evangelism and missions would have to be redefined. We need look no further than most of the mainline denominations to see what happens to evangelism when Universalism is prevalent.

The denominations and groups become lukewarm.. has nothing to do with UR.. Evangelizing is done by the Spirit of God, not by man and is via the instructions of Jesus. Besides the whole roast in hell talk not only blasphemes God's Holy image and character every single day, but it makes the good news incredibly hard for folks to "believe".

24. If Universalism is finally proved right, nothing will have been lost by our continued urgency in winning people to faith in Christ. But if it is false and we embrace it, then everything will be forever lost--including people who do not know Christ.

What a sad and flawed Great Plan Of Salvation to fall so short.. But! It's the Word that gives light.. All those many scriptures.. "He has given all things into My hands" Jesus said. "I will lose nothing He gave me.." .."The truth bears witness of itself." (It becomes evident! Most non believers have no trouble believing UR.) How ironic that the hated doctrine of Molech-the Baal of Canaan, which God SO hated, has become wrapped up into the gospel/good news of His Kingdom! Just imagine a universe made new, full of endless peace and joy.. amidst the backdrop of screams of endless torture.. really? and UR is put on the defensive??
   :smile:

[marie glen]

CHB....Very well done showing that UR is built on a foundation of Love.
Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  :dsunny:

   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

   yE KNOW NOT WHAT SPIRIT YE ARE OF.....
   
TO EAT FOOD SACRIFICED TO IDOLS  NUMBERS CH 22,23,24,25

  2 peter 2;15  Jude 11  They have left the straight way and wandered off  ..taken the way of Cain[kill his brother] they have rushed for profit[rushed

judgement/cursed man who God has blessed for wages of sin/mammon]   into Balaam's error;

 

..I never thought of it that way before..  :Chinscratch: very interesting  :thumbsup:

Thanks to you all.  :HeartThrob: I feel like I didn't say enough but I was pressed for time. I am sure you all can add a great deal more than I have.   :dsunny:

CHB

I especially liked your #'s 8, 17 and 24  :smile:

Many may doubt, but implanted in man is something which responds to the Person of Jesus and knowledge of Him.

The Spirit can achieve what the letter cannot.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :banana:

[eaglesway]

FIRST FOUR


1. Jesus made both repentance and faith prerequisites for forgiveness. "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3, NKJV). "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel" (Mark 1:15).

Christian biblical universalists believe that "Every knee shall bow, whether in heaven or on earth or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."(Phil 2:9,10)

Repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ is the only way into the kingdom of God. Jesus said, "If I am lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me"(John 12:32), and He meant it, just as He said it. I also believe Paul, "As in Adam all died, so also in Christ shall all be made alive"(1 Cor 15:22), along with John, "And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."(1 Jn 2:2)

Eventually all will bow before Him, some in this life, some at the Great White Throne, some after passing through judgment.

2. The "water of life" is offered to all, but not all receive it or even desire it. "Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely" (Rev. 22:17).

Not all are interested in the water of life, but the gospel of billions burning in "hell" forever is not living water. It is water tainted with death. Even so, no matter how pure the water, many will resist the will of God, and will until they are convicted in His presence of His goodness and His love. They will be dealt with by the majesty of God, who is a consuming fire, and eventually bow their knee to Him. They will, in that fire, become thirsty, "Let everyone who thirsts drink freely of the water of life." One of the last verses in John's revelation is this,

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

The message of the gospel is "Come, drink freely of the water of life", not "Burn forever in the lake of fire." Believers will carry that living water into the ages to come.(Eph 2:7)

3. Scripture teaches that there will be a judgment after death. "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment" (Heb. 9:27).

There WILL be a judgment. The question is, will the penalty given to the unrepentant sinner at the Great White Throne be one of eternal torment in the second death? Paul doesnt think so.

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be ALL IN ALL. 1 Cor 15:22-28

According to these verses, which you rarely hear taught on because they are not understood or convenient to those who preach eternal torment- death will be abolished. If death is abolished, how will "hell"(the lake of fire) last forever? If every adversary is subjected to Jesus' Lordship, and the result is that, as Paul says in verse 28, God will become "all in all"- how can the judgment last forever?

Paul told the Colossians this, For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. (Col. 1:19,20)

In Phil 2:9,10 9 Paul states, "Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

All will be subjected, some passing through judgment- but all will finally be reconciled.

4. Those who have not had a true conversion will experience a judgment for sin that the Bible describes as "the second death." "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

Jesus also said that hypocritical believers who did not minister to the needy would go into that fire (Matthew 25:31-46)

Paul said,

"For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

The only true foundation is Jesus, and His love expressed practically in our lives.

1 Cor 3:11-15 says that some, who built poorly on the foundation,  will be saved "as through fire", but they will suffer the loss of their works.

Paul believes people can be saved "as through fire".

Our God "is a consuming fire"(Heb 12:29). Jesus said, "Everyman will be salted with fire"(Mark 9:49). Jesus' eyes are "as flames of fire" and His face like "the sun shining in its strength"(Rev 1:14-16).

The lake of fire is the second death. After all the adversaries are subjected, death will be  abolished and God will be all in all. The lake of fire is for exposure, as light is fire to darkness and our God is a consuming fire.... all darkness and death will come to an end when God is all in all. Subjection is yielding to the God, bowing and confessing His Lordship, and reconciliation. Subjection to the love of God by all makes God ALL IN ALL.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God. 1 Cor 4:5,6

[marie glen]

`

      "..and all flesh shall see the salvation of God."
Luke 3:6, Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

Will see it from `hell`? Not only is God powerless to save 2/3 of humanity (and 1/3 angels) from eternal doom and torture, but they will be able to witness the peace and joy of His perfect kingdom before and, or during that never ending doom and torture?
  ----
P.S - awesome post EW!   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :cloud9:

[micah7:9]

I simply, and I mean simply, cannot understand how anyone believing in a "hell that lasts..eternally, forever, everlasting " how that person can understand the situation as they espouse and can see that out come after reading...
1Co 15:21  For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Jesus The Lord and Savior said...Rev 21:6  and He said to me, `It hath been done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End; I, to him who is thirsting, will give of the fountain of the water of the life freely;
"Done"   G1096  A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen" -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being
Exo 3:14  And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be
I AM THAT I AM    H1961  to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass
BDB Definition:    1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen,
"I, to him who is thirsting, will give of the fountain of the water of the life freely;"
Let me say that those who go through the lake of fire[those not in the first resurrection Rev. 20:5&6]
will be down right thirsty and will be given freely to drink, by Jesus the Savior, the water of life they found no reason to accept while in their sins.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  mICAH......Also,what is left out of such reasoning are the scriptures..no man can come unto me unless He is drawn

  each in his order.....and God's sovereignty of making from the same lump..one vessel for common purpose..and one for honour..

   I shall harden.......or I shall have mercy on whomever I have mercy.  This being in the Divine plan of God in this exercise of

  good and evil..that such things[contrast] be exhibited and openly displayed.....

   
  also, God has kept many things hidden...and reveals them in His time.......when every hidden thing shall be revealed.....

 

[eaglesway]

5-8

5. Contrary to Universalist beliefs, Jesus' teaching indicates that most of humanity is on a broad path that leads to destruction. "'Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, "Lord, Lord, open for us," and He will answer and say to you, "I do not know you, where you are from. ... Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity"'" (Luke 13:24-27).

The destruction that comes upon the lost is the ruin of living under the mastery of sin, not eternal torment in "hell". The judgment to come will also be a consequence of the "wide road", but it is not eternal torment. Was Jesus just being naive and enthusiastic when He said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me"?

Jesus speaks from the throne, where He has been exalted by the Father to "fill all things"(Eph 4:10) and to Whom all will be subjected(1 Cor 15:22-28), about His plan,

And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."  Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end." Rev 21:5,6

Jesus said all things, He meant all things, and Paul understood that that was exactly what He meant and wrote about it in many of his epistles.(Romans 8, Eph 1, Col 1, Phil 2, 1 Cor 15, 2 Tim 2)

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The lawless ones who will "Depart from Him", all knew His name, called Him Lord, and did works and taught in His name. They were guilty of not having practical love- showing they did not understand His ways. In 1 Cor 3:12-15 Paul said works of wood, hay and stubble would be burnt up, but the person would be saved "as through fire". He said every persons works would be tested by fire, "Because the Day will reveal it". When Jesus is revealed and all the veils are torn away, His face, like the "sun shining in its strength" will be the Day, before which everyones works will be tested by the "eyes as flames of fire". Jesus said, "Everyone will be salted with fire".

6. Jesus spoke often of a terrible place of judgment for those outside His kingdom rule. "'The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth'" (Matt. 13:41-42).

Jesus also said,"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."(Mark 3:11,12)

Every seed of wheat has chaff. The chaff does not represent the "evil ones". It is what is left over after the seeds of wheat are beaten on the threshing floor to get the chaff off them. Then the chaff is blown off the grain, and the grain is kept and the chaff is burned, with unquenchable fire. The fire will burn on you, me, and everyone who ever lived until all the chaff(waste, coating of the seed, as in "the flesh") in each one is consumed. Even those who are saved will be "tested by fire because the Day will reveal it".

Again, Jesus said every person would be salted with fire. Jesus was talking to religious people in those verses, and speaking to them about works motivated by true love versus religious works. Hypocrites will be saved, "yet so as through fire". In fact, everyone will be salted with fire. On the Day of judgment those who have been reconciled through faith in Christ will enter the joy of their Lord, reconciled by His blood, done with fire. The rest will be purged by the light of His presence, which is fire to darkness. Jesus said,

For nothing is hidden that will not become evident, nor anything secret that will not be known and come to light. Luke 8:17

Paul said

Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God. 1 Cor 4:5,6

In Rev. chapter 1, His eyes are as flames of fire and the writer of Hebrews says,

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.(Heb 4:12,13)

The word of God divides the confusion and the delusions in each person, and reveals the secrets of their hearts. Even after salvation that sword keeps dividing. Jesus says, "I am He that tries the reins and the hearts". All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do, and He will try the righteous, to purify their faith(Peter), and He will bring the wicked to repentance in judgment. But His end purpose for all is plainly stated in His own words, "Behold, I am making all things new", and, "If I am lifted up I will draw all men unto me."

7. The Bible teaches both the love of God and His sure judgment of sin. Trusting in Christ's payment for our sins saves us from this coming judgment. "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him" (Rom. 5:8-9).

God does judge sin. Trusting in Christ delivers believers from the penalty of that judgment, and births righteousness. Those who reject Him will suffer judgment, but it will not be eternal torment in hell, because the second death will end when the last knee bows, when the last adverary is subjected(Phil 2:9-11, 1 Cor 15:22-28)

The bible also says, in Romans 5:18  So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach.(Col 1)

No one earned their salvation. We were reconciled by grace, chosen and elect as the first fruits, "That we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory." (Eph 1:12)

James 1:18 says,

Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Paul says in Romans 8

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

We, as first fruits are being prepared for a purpose to be revealed in the ages to come (Eph 2:7). Did anyone really think we would just sit around and listen to screaming tormented, living corpses for the ages to come after the resurrection of the saints at the second coming?

In Romans 11:32-36

For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 
For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 
For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Judgment is sure, but the penalties do not last forever/ Paul says death will be destroyed(anulled, nullified, done away with), and God will be all in all.

In Colossians 1 Paul says that all will be reconciled by the blood of His cross, and he defines "all" very carefully.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

8. In one of the most loving verses in the Bible, Jesus issues eternal options. "'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life'" (John 3:16).

Those who do not believe are perishing. They are living in Adam, under the sway and devastation of sin and death. Those who believe in Jesus are set free from sin and death and the judgment to come. Regarding the rest,the question is, "Will God torment billions in hell forever".

How can that be called victory? If the second death lasts forever, how then is death destroyed? How does God become all in all? Is this doctrine of billions burning forever really the end point of God's plan?

In Eph 1:9-12 Paul states that there is a different end to God's plan.

He made known to us the mystery of His will,according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

Our inheritance, as children of God is written in Romans 8:18-21

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Administration, or dispensation of the fulness of timesmeans that God's plan is distributed over "the fulness of times", fulness being the completion of time in ages and generations. God's plan is not complete until time is complete. According to Paul the complete plan involves "the summing up of all things in Christ, whether things in heaven or on earth". The King Jame saysit like this, "the gathering together into one of all things in Christ, whether in heaven or on earth". This is written by the same Paul who taught the Corinthians that God would be ALL IN ALL, who taught the Colossians that God would "reconcile all things, whether in heaven or in earth". These verses are not taught because they are not convenient, and because the teachers have not seen "the mystery".

Paul says further in verse 12 that God "causes all things to work according to the counsel of His desire".

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,  even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),  and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,  that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.Eph 2:4-7

Paul says that we will be blessed by God in "ages to come". What are these ages? What will we be doing during them? Watching people burning? Or continuing to reconcile men unto God? Whatever our destiny in ages to come, it will be glorious.

Continuing to teach this to the Ephesians Paul says in Ephesians 4:10,

"He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things."

Just as Paul began instructing the Ephesians in "the mystery" of the "gathering together into one of all things in Christ" in Chapter one, he states again in Ephesians 4:10- Christ will fill all things.

In 1 Cor 15:28 Paul says that after all things are subjected to Christ, He will return all things to the Father, including His all of His subjected adversaries, and God will be ALL IN ALL.

How can Jesus fill all things; how can all things in heaven and in earth be summed up in Him, How can God become ALL IN ALL if billions are burning forever?

[rosered]

  This   is  a wonderful thread  :angel5:   very uplifting     


   :icon_flower:

[sheila]

 Preach it,Brother!

[eaglesway]

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


:flamebreath:

[sheila]

  amen! ...

[micah7:9]

Wish I was a speed reader, but alas I am slow reader and a slow comprehender as well so......I wait. :dsunny: