Irrational Fear

[laren]

I've been thinking a lot about "perfect love casts out all fear" lately; and noticing how my life is often "driven" by avoiding fearful events, ie: public speaking, situations where i might be embarrassed etc. 

Would be interested in how "perfect love casts out all fear" relates to daily events. 

A few questions I have, is "what is fear"?  What's it's origins. 

My thoughts are that fear, at least irrational fear; is due to a self defined "identity" based on poor performance.  In other words, failing a standard, leads to an "identity" of i'm "no good", and then I hide/bury that feeling/thought/identity, and spend enormous amount of energy avoiding feeling that way again.  To me that is my definition of fear, hiding, running from "self defined identity". 

I was at a basketball game last night, and at half time they gave a person an opportunity to shoot a free throw for 10 dollars (if made) or a half court shot for 50$ (if made). 

I was thinking how if it were me who would shoot the shot, I would prefer to shoot the half court shot, because even though I would probably miss/fail, that would be expected; and i'd fear less than shooting the free throw where i had a "higher expectation" of making it, and then would fear missing it and exposing the "guy who doesn't measure up". 



So, how do we rid ourselves of fear, especially irrational fear??  It imo, has to involve running toward "acceptance", and being willing to feel "fear"; rather than hiding and running away from it, creating stress, etc. 


any thoughts. 

laren

[Taffy]

Hi Bro...

how ya doing....

within the confines of scriptures..for mine i see fear in the context youve mentioned as ONLY death ""its self ""...to LIVE NO MORE, not so much after the Flesh but after the spirit...

Christ being the PERFECT love within which  no longer has the fear of DEATH,,,,


A bit short Bro..but that the Drift

Blessings

[laren]

Hi Bro...

how ya doing....

within the confines of scriptures..for mine i see fear in the context youve mentioned as ONLY death ""its self ""...to LIVE NO MORE, not so much after the Flesh but after the spirit...

Christ being the PERFECT love within which  no longer has the fear of DEATH,,,,


A bit short Bro..but that the Drift

Blessings

Hi Graham, i'm doing good, it's nice to hear from ya. 

What to you is "death" that perfect love casts out? 

Living in a "self defined" mode, with an attached"worthless" mentality, sure feels like "death". 

would love for you to expand more if you feel led. 

:bigGrin:

[Redlettervoice]

Hey Laren, I don't know but a "dream" helped me~  There was this burly man came to
my door and said "Booooooooooooooooo!" This may sound funny but I went right up to '
him and said, "Boooooooooooooooooooooooo!" ha

I really dreamed that. I felt like God was telling me to confront my fears.

I hate that spirit., but God knows humanity's fears, that's why He says "Fear not" so
often, I reckon.

I can't say that I have never "feared" some circumstances since, but they usually
involve other people that I can't tell which way "they" are going to go. Not myself.
Faith overcomes fear.  I really believe that. And it is given by God everytime. Other
wise, I'd be shaking in my boots. ha

[Loveroftruth]

Laren, oh how I can relate....  I do pr and marketing and sometime last the summer I sensed a nudging that I should go out and actually teach it to other business owners... Everything in me has the skill, the know how, the passion and the personality, yet FEAR!!!! I can already imagine standing in front of all those eyes judging me :msealed: yet I know I have to try, it is something God is telling me I must walk through and as RLV said "confront it"

I think our mind has so much fuel to stir up fear and keep it lit, the only thing I can think of is that when we KNOW Gods love and that we are FULLY excepted then maybe that takes away the blows of what we see as failure.

Good question - I look forward to hearing what others say  :thumbsup: :girlheart:

[Loveroftruth]

Hi Bro...

how ya doing....

within the confines of scriptures..for mine i see fear in the context youve mentioned as ONLY death ""its self ""...to LIVE NO MORE, not so much after the Flesh but after the spirit...

Christ being the PERFECT love within which  no longer has the fear of DEATH,,,,


A bit short Bro..but that the Drift

Blessings

Taffy, but how do you apply this :dontknow:

[laren]

I think the very thing we fear, is "our false identity" being exposed.  Being incompetant.  Others seeing we don't measure up to the internal standards we have set for ourselves, or the standards we believe God expects of us. 

Condemnation comes from our beliefs about our failure;  pride comes from our good efforts to cover our "inner self", and appear confident; but both are running away from LOVE.   

So if we confront our fears, as Redletter said; what does that mean?  Confront meaning do the very thing we fear?? 

accepting our self and be willing to let ourselves be exposed??   


I think fear especially comes from false beliefs about our FATHER.  Seeing Him as an angry God, who we need to hide from. 



And as loveroftruth asks?  how do we apply, or make a reality what we know is true. 

For example; I know (head knowledge) God loves me just as I am; loves me with no conditions; no performance necessary.  Yet in my "inner core", there is still me who is afraid of being exposed.  afraid of letting others really know me, afraid of etc.....

How does head knowledge become reality?? 

[SeekerSA]

1Jn 4:18  There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has torment. He who fears has not been perfected in love.

Seems John has the answer.

(I am going to have to ban myself, I keep hijacking threads)

I think the way we try measure up to other people's standards which we perceive to be better than us is the root of the issue.

If we look at small children, we notice there is a tendency to "show off", they may put on their batman suit or bring the latest toy to show you and what do us older folk say?

"Come now, us grown ups are talking, put away your toys and go play elsewhere." 

Sound familiar?  Awe common, you can tell me.  :Sparkletooth:

Well our society, esp. western has this approach with children.  They are born with the nature to perform, to boast, to be proud of who they are.  Enough of these admonitions, they then lose this desire to be themselves and will then start a process of trying to measure up to the next person.

Now imagine if our Father took this approach?  When you sing him a song He says "I am busy, do not bother me now"  It would be real interesting to see how children would develop in an environment where they are all seen as number one, never admonished and left to discover things for themselves.  Utopia.

Enter the claw.  The rules of society rob us of who we are in God.  We are made to feel unworthy by the smallest little inconsequential occurrence in our lives.  Why are children so forgiving yet adults not?  We learn to be bad, we learn to be self conscious, we learn to feel threatened.  All that law and society brings, it destroys who we really are.

Taking LoT's example, a fear of public speaking is derived form our early childhood when we were discouraged not to speak, not to interfere with the adults etc.

Mat 19:13  Then little children were brought to Him, that He should put His hands on them and pray. And the disciples rebuked them.
Mat 19:14  But Jesus said, Allow the little children to come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.

See, Jesus had the right attitude.  Here He was teaching the grown ups and the disciples were upset over this.  Jesus stops what He is doing and gives them attention.

With children, their attention span is short and thus when they interrupt, allow them their time, they will soon find other things to do.  The child seeks acceptance and usually this is with strangers.  We project our fears upon them and they become us, then we wonder why they rebel?

So we start off with "Life's a Journey, enjoy the ride" and end up with "Life's a bitch and then
you die."

Then we pay psychologists to try set us straight.

My daughter has a fear of bugs, I mean if she sees a beetle and I see it at the same time she heads for the gate.  The origin?  We have in the summer these dumb, small, brown, flying harmless beetles that come out at night and fly into everything. When she was small, I teased her and put one down her tee shirt.  The fear is so great now that she will not even look at a bug of any sort I may pick up, she screams and heads off to the gate.  A silly mistake and see what happens.  She was head girl at junior school (Gr 7) and had no problem in Gr 6 with her acceptance speech and her farewell speech in Gr 7.

No matter how much I say I am sorry, the damage is done. 

Blessings

[hopeful]

I think feelings of fear can have many roots. For instance, people with low blood sugar will feel irrationally fearful or anxious until they eat a little something- then they feel normal...

Public speaking:  I have friends who do not fear this and don't see what the big deal is- I find them to be fascinating creatures!  I can't help but wonder what made them so confident but one thing they all have in common is the same type of personality. Public speaking makes me shake and feel like I'm going to throw up!  But is that really fear or just nervousness?  Are they one and the same?

I know in areas other than public speaking, I have spoken to fear and rejected fear- out loud- and it has left but I guess that fear of rejection or failing in front of others is a strong one for me.  Then again there are people who think I'm so brave for having a writing ministry.  But hey, I don't have to see the faces of the people while they read what I write!!!

Interesting topic...

[Loveroftruth]

I once remember showing up for a group interview to be a flight attendant... I had no idea that we would be asked to get up and tell about ourselves - I mean what can be so hard about that? Well I shook with fear and bombed it!

fast forward a few years later, another group interview for the airlines, this time I knew what to expect and thought in my mind what I was going to say.... that heart racing came upon me like crazy, but yet since I had an outline in my mind I aced it and actually got hired....

Its all in the mind - the mind controls everything.....

With that in mind (pun intended  :mlaugh: :mlaugh:) how do we take authority over the mind?

I do think it is the world that has given us the "measuring stick" of judging ourselves, maybe its about throwing away the worlds mesuring stick and only using Gods......... yet how the heck do we get this from the head into action  :dontknow:

[laren]

.....maybe its about throwing away the worlds mesuring stick and only using Gods......... yet how the heck do we get this from the head into action  :dontknow:

does God have a measuring stick?  Does he need a certain amount of performance from us?  What's the cut off point?  What does he measure us by?

Does unconditonal love "measure"? 


thanks for sharing Christine.  You and I sound a lot alike. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: In my experience, fear is a spirit. Fear hath torment, ie. is one of the tormentors. Perfected love is what casts it out. HE IS perfected love, His Spirit IS love. So ask the Father to cast out the fear.

I will give you one example from my own life. I had what I thought was a fear of heights, from trying to see Niagara Falls by climbing up on the bridge side when I was 4. My parents were not looking at me, and for that short time period, I wanted to see what they were seeing. I paid for that childish error for the rest of my life up until this one day. I could not, from that point on, even walk on the second floor of a motel/hotel, or walk across a bridge out in the country over a creek. I was literally FROZEN with fear, if I even got up the courage to try. It brought torment. Driving across a bridge was the same.

So years pass, and I get invited to go hear a woman speak in Atlanta, by some friends. The hotel has 16 stories. Guess which one we're on? Number 12. And the hotel was all open design on the inside, so that there were balconies all around the inside that you could look down on the inner courtyard below. I get off the elevator and literally cling to the wall with my eyes closed all the way to our room. One of the women who went was a friend of a friend from another state. As soon as she walked into the room, in the anointing she walked up to me and commanded fear of FALLING, to leave me. I walked out of that room to go to dinner, and a few months later a group of us went back to the scene of the "crime", Niagara Falls, and for the first time in 25 years of visits there, I walked up to the fence like all the other tourists.

There have been several fears over the years the Lord dealt with, and they have never returned, glory to God. Boldness is ours thru Christ Jesus our Lord; it is part of our inheritance. Thank You Father, I give You praise. Blessings to all.....

[Loveroftruth]

does God have a measuring stick?  Does he need a certain amount of performance from us?  What's the cut off point?  What does he measure us by?

Gods stick is no stick  :HeartThrob: :thumbsup:

[Loveroftruth]

Hey Card,

I agree with you, but see a new spin on it - we are saying the same thing I think with a few different twists :thumbsup:

I agree that it is a Spirit but is the spirit just fueling the "LIE"? When we get to a root of the fear "Fear of failure" for example would be becuase we feel for us to fail would somehow do something very bad.... thats not the truth, but we believe it anyways.. Perfect love (God) would come and tell us the truth which is that nothing bad happens when we fail and maybe what we call failure isnt....... when we see the truth, it sets us free (CASTS OUT) that lie and that spirit that fuels it.

We know what those spirits can only effect those lies which we have believed to be true - they then come and fuel it. When that lie is confronted...maybe someone telling us its a lie and a demon helps us to quickly see its not real and the next time we are in that situation, we know its not real and thus the spirit cant fuel..

This is all my view - not written in stone and would not even say its the correct view.

I like you believe in demons, but their food is LIES WE BELIEVE - take that lie away by PERFECT LOVE (GODS TRUTH) and they no longer have food to eat

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The spirit "speaks" the lie, we believe the lie, the lie bears fruit, ie. our attitude produces an action. This is why we are told to bring every THOUGHT into captivity to the mind of Christ, and why the helmet of salvation is the first piece of armor mentioned.

Our minds or hearts, are the battleground. Satan first SPOKE to Eve, before she acted. Her acceptance created a "joining" of the two natures, just as God's Word as Spirit comes and "impregnates" our souls with the Word. Our mind is like a womb, it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it. Acceptance of that seed, produces fruit, the fruit of the womb. This is why we are told to cast down imaginations, and every high and lofty thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ. Against (knowledge of) Christ = anti christ.

People are running around out there, in terror over the coming antichrist, unaware he is already here, and they already have the mark in their foreheads; thanks to our first parents, we were born with it  :mshock: ......Blessings to all....

[Loveroftruth]

Card wrote

Our minds or hearts, are the battleground. Satan first SPOKE to Eve, before she acted. Her acceptance created a "joining" of the two natures, just as God's Word as Spirit comes and "impregnates" our souls with the Word. Our mind is like a womb, it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it. Acceptance of that seed, produces fruit, the fruit of the womb.

:bgdance: :bgdance: that was FULLY LOADED!!!!
Your whole post was - I need to chew on it  :laughing7:

[Redkora]

I have OCD and depression related to religious doctrine (mostly fear of going to Hell, and the fear of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is often a theme). It's not nearly as bad as it used to be, thanks be to God, but I sometimes get spikes (times when I am suseptible to becoming very fearful). Lately, though, when I start to get a spike, I sometimes shout "No!" in my mind, refusing to give in to the fear. My therapist also told me to think, "Nuh-uh, I'm not going there, Devil." This helps me too. A very important factor is having open, supportive, and nonjudgemental people around you to lend support in the dark times. I am grateful to this community for helping me through those times.

[Redlettervoice]

Bless your heart, Redkora.  All our fears are subject to disappearing.........but all our
"faith" that God has given, will endure.  Because it is of God.  When the waterflood
overflows me, David said, I will look unto the hills from whence cometh my help. 
All of God's people experience this facing of the giants.  Giants of thought that we
need to remember that Paul said in the new testament: "And be not afraid of thy
adversaries which to them is an evident token of perdition, but to YOU, it is salvation."
So it goes with what Deut says about God bringing "them" down before your face.
Yes, YOU have permission and God is "with" you now, the evident token has been'
presented, and YOU can say NO NO NO!

I will pray for you.
And YOU speak to the fear.  For God is with you.

You will never seek GOD without God being found. Jesus said so. They who seek, find.
Knock, and it "shall" be opened.  Keep on knocking!  And keep on keeping on. 
Blessings.

[hopeful]

  All our fears are subject to disappearing.........but all our
"faith" that God has given, will endure.  Because it is of God. 

Amen!   :HeartThrob:

[fire walker]

There have been times when I expeienced
such physical pain for a month or two at a time in recovering from a bad back injury that happened over thirty five years ago, that resulted permanent nerve dammage
in the upper back and lower lombar.

Every time right after the injury when I would go from sitting to standing up certain parts of my body burned like fire, eventually it got so the pain deminished, and even goes away for months at a time however I found there were times when I would grit my teeth before standing up from out of a chair in preperation for the pain that might follow.
this is a fear that I still deal with from time to time as I have permanent nerve damage in my upper back and lombar (lower back) this painful situation flares back up from time to time, my whole body tenses up and I bite down on a pencil or something to help brace for these painful bouts when they occur and I avoid talking to others during a bout with this pain because I get cross and cranky from the pain, this is a fear that is more physical even if the fear is in the mind it is dealing with an actual physical pain that sends that truthful message to the brain, is this also the fear that can be cast out or is the cause, the pain to be cast out first before the fear is cast out with it? which way does the river flow on natural fear of chronic pain flare ups, heal the cause of the pain first or cast the fear out first? If the fear was cast out would the pain cease when one of the bouts occured I wonder?

What if any is the differance between this fear I discussed and irrational fear?

Peace,
Fire Walker

[firstborn888]

All our fears are subject to disappearing.........

What an excellent way of stating a truth.

In fact they are not only subject to disappearing, they are also targeted for destruction - along w/their 'friends'.

Friends = acceptance, approval, safety, security.

Read: 'self' acceptance, 'self' approval, 'self' safety, 'self' security.

Of course, in Christ we have 'real' acceptance, approval, safety, security, but they come from a totally different source.

How to get from point A to point B?

The truth makes us free, so - no hiding. Be willing to be humiliated if necessary. Pride and fear are buddies.
- byron

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: FW, I too had a severe back injury. They said I would be in a wheelchair by age 30, at age 25. God healed me, so perfectly a mylogram could not find any scar tissue, which the neurosurgeon assured me, "was just not possible." But one day a year later, suddenly I had the same severe pain for no reason, accompanied by the fear based thought, that I had re-injured it. I started praying, and the Lord spoke, "This is a lying symptom, cast it down." I got MAD, that something had tried to come on me, and went to town on it. That was more than 20 years ago and I've never had the pain since.

Not saying this is what the problem is, but you might want to go before the Lord and ask Him about it. Blessings to you

[fire walker]

Not saying this is what the problem is, but you might want to go before the Lord and ask Him about it. Blessings to you

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks Card,

Yes, in those years of working with this back pain I have prayed to the Lord and always receive a restful responce, I pray not so much for myself but for my relationship toward others not to do damage to others
who are close to me when dealing with this
and am always blessed to have a true smile
on my face where love is present with me, it is damage that may be done to others that is more my concern when becoming cranky
than is the back pain itself, when someone I am close to is hurt then I suffer.

These assuring messages came to me during prayer that we shall not be known after the flesh but in spirit, that in the flesh
we soon come out and into the Lord, the amazing thing is this is happening now with us, fear is being cast out and such a restful place to be. Just as Redletterservice pointed out "all our fears are subject to disappearing"  and I say Amen to that point.

Laren mentioned irrational fear, yet is not all fear the same, isn't all fear to be destroyed in the all consuming fire of Gods
love? I believe fear is soon destroyed as we come into working in rest that is in Christ.

Peace,
Fire Walker