I have a question about ALL :)

[FLSister]

I did a search but couldn't find what I was looking for.  Please forgive me if it's already been discussed.  I was involved in a discussion about universal salvation and quoted several verses... John 12:32, I Corinthians 15:22, Col. 1:19-20 etc....  I was told the word "all" must be qualified.  ;)   Someone then pointed out that all can't mean all, since there's no way the false prophet and antichrist will be made alive in Christ.  I don't know how to respond to that.  I'm kind of new to this way of thinking.  Would you mind sharing your thoughts, it's much appreciated.   :girlheart:

[eaglesway]

I did a search but couldn't find what I was looking for.  Please forgive me if it's already been discussed.  I was involved in a discussion about universal salvation and quoted several verses... John 12:32, I Corinthians 15:22, Col. 1:19-20 etc....  I was told the word "all" must be qualified.  ;)   Someone then pointed out that all can't mean all, since there's no way the false prophet and antichrist will be made alive in Christ.  I don't know how to respond to that.  I'm kind of new to this way of thinking.  Would you mind sharing your thoughts, it's much appreciated.   :girlheart:

In Colossians 1 Paul carefully defines the all that is to be reconciled by the blood of His cross, and it is the same all Jesus was defining- ALL :o)

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

In 1 Cor 15:22-28 Paul deals also with the adversaries, including every single adversay ever- even death itself.

25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet."But when He says "all things are put under Him," it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

The result of subjection is reconciliation, or else Coloosians 1 is untrue. Also I'll refer you to this post

http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/i-was-not-prepared/msg183665/?topicseen#msg183665

and this(way more detailed)   http://www.hellisamyth.com/all-in-all.html

[Tom]

Amen, here's another good one about "all."

"out of Him and through Him and for Him is all" (Romans 11:36)

I think the false prophet is a spirit being because it is tormented along with the Adversary and the wild beast in the lake of fire for the eons of the eons where mortals will be dead, and I think there's some confusion about what the antichrist is. But I believe all God's creatures will be reconciled to God through Christ's blood on the cross. That's what Colossians 1:20 says.

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

I think that's where the idea of universal reconciliation comes from because all on earth and in the heavens is the whole universe, and it will all be reconciled to God. So anybody that says any of God's creatures can't be reconciled just because they happened to have been chosen to be messengers of evil is ignoring the truth of scripture.

[marie glen]

I did a search but couldn't find what I was looking for.  Please forgive me if it's already been discussed.  I was involved in a discussion about universal salvation and quoted several verses... John 12:32, I Corinthians 15:22, Col. 1:19-20 etc....  I was told the word "all" must be qualified.  ;)   Someone then pointed out that all can't mean all, since there's no way the false prophet and antichrist will be made alive in Christ.  I don't know how to respond to that.  I'm kind of new to this way of thinking.  Would you mind sharing your thoughts, it's much appreciated.   :girlheart:

hi! There are plenty of people on the planet, present and past, which have been oppressed and possessed by the enemy.. I figure the anti-Christ will simply be another, yet will have managed to step into a very powerful seat of power, coalesced into almost all powerful an office..

I think of the "false prophet" as the theory of evolution :smile: as I tend to think Bible prophecy buffs have been trapped in yesteryear/ past ages fulfillment.. For instance whereas the world empire, the Roman Empire, expired/wasn't, "then was again" as the Holy Roman Empire, but in 'last' days fulfillment, the world empire, I believe will be the U.N. which in it's first form as the league/"covenant" of nations, it expired, then was again (as an evolved roman/greek empire, daniel's iron and brass or bronze, dn 2 and 7; rev 13:1-10)

So I think the popular view of the Book of Revelation is just a bit off.. and the false prophet may have began as a man, but is now a teaching(prophecy, prophet, teacher) which has turned Christendom on its ear..

So, to me, these two being part of the all, I have no problem with..

Jesus said "If I be lifted up from the earth" (on the cross) "I will draw all to me".
1 Corinthians 15 also talks about all being fruits to God, "in their own order" first Jesus.. then those that are His at His return" it says, "and then" also, third, "when Jesus has subdued all things and hands the Kingdom over to the Father".. it's this third in the order which is especially interesting.. And I guess not noticed by so many..

1 Corinthians 15:22-25 - "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet." ...all things subdued..
   
:gsmile:

[micah7:9]

We have been here.....ALL....what part of ALL is not ALL?
ALL...G3956  pas  all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:27  for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
1Co 15:28  and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

[FLSister]

Thanks for the help.   :Peace2:

[Seth]

 :dsunny:

[Pig]

בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ Ge 1:1

The את before heavens השמים and earth הארץ is not translated. It is the first and last letter of the Hebrew alphabet. It means 'all'. God created all things in heaven and all things in earth.  It is 'all' in terms of everything in both space and time. It has the sense of beginning and end as well as all, enumerated. But since Jesus is the alpha and the omega in Greek, a parallel to the aleph and tov in Hebrew, it also declares that the heavens and earth belong to him.

NT theology is a re-statement of OT theology with the revelation of God incarnate, the 'mystery hidden from the beginning' but now revealed in Christ Jesus.

He created all things and recreates all things.

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

[joeteekay]

 DOES ALL MEAN ALL?

There are many scriptures that tell us that God will save ALL (everyone, every single person).  Some of them are:

I Tim 2:4 who will have ALL men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

1 Tim 4:10 And through Him having made peace through the blood of His cross, it pleased the Father to reconcile ALL things to Himself through Him, whether the things on earth or the things in Heaven

I Cor. 1:10 For to this we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of those who believe.

There are many more.  And yet, many people do not believe these scriptures. Why? Because theologians and bible scholars maintain that you can't say ALL always means ALL.  Are they right?  Yes they are. Technically they are right about the word..  Where it says "ALL should be saved," why do they say that doesn't mean ALL? But why do they say that and what is their proof?  They incorrectly say that when it comes to God saving ALL (everyone, every single person), They can't do it for two main reasons:

1.   to protect their false doctrine that evil people must end up in an ever burning hell fire and be tormented for ever.  They consider that the justice of God. That is sick (IMO).

2.   to maintain that man has free moral agency and has the will to reject the saving power of Jesus Christ.  That belief is also wrong.

So how do they "prove" that ALL doesn't always mean ALL.  They use scriptures like these:

Mar 1:5  And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

2Ti_1:15  This thou knowest, that ALL they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

In these two scriptures we have the word ALL. But does it really mean ALL?

The word translated ALL here is Strongs G3896, and is found 1075 times in the New Testament.  It is the Greek word "pas" and it means:

πᾱς
pas
Including ALL the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; ALL, any, every, the whole
KJV Usage: ALL (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

Notice one definition is "as many as".  This is likely the more appropriate meaning in the above two verses.

In Mark 1:5 if we said ALL (pas) means every last one  every single one, there would be a problem. How can we say  yes it does mean absolutely everyone. "...ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem..." I can not really believe that every single person alive, ALL Judaea and the whole city of Jerusalem went out to Christ?   The infants, the elderly that can't walk? Not likely.

Similarly in 2 Tim 1:15, does that word pas in the Greek mean every single one in Asia turned away (forsook) Paul? Maybe but not likely.

So the word 'ALL' can mean - ALL, completely, totality or as many as. It depends on the context.

Nevertheless, there just a whole bunch of scriptures that reveal that God will save ALL. and we do not need to rely on finding the word ALL to see this is so.

1 John 2:2  and He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the WHOLE WORLD.

John 1:29 says, "Behold, the Lamb of God, that takes away the sin of the world!" 

1 John 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

John 3:17  For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him may (CLV) be saved.


And of course there are these with the word ALL which can only mean every single one, absolutely everyone:

1 Cor 15:22  For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ ALL will be made alive.

Rom 3:23  for ALL have sinned, and fALL short of the glory of God;

2 Peter 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

And many more.

[eaglesway]

The most descriptive scripture concerning the ALL that Jesus will save is Colosians 1:15-20

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


Everything He created in whether in heaven and in earth, everything visible and everything invisible.

John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Everything He is before. Since He created all things, He is before all things.

Everything He is over.

Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.
Phil 2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
Heb 1:4 When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

All of these things Paul describes are the same things the Father reconciles to Himself through the blood of Christs cross.

There is not one thing that is not included in that "all".