Christ's metaphor of the cup

[Seth]

Below is how I understand the gospel of salvation and the Kingdom by a metaphor of the cup. Obviously cups are not people so I know it won't make literal sense, but hopefully it communicates what I think about where works fit in and what I think about the nature of judgment and its outcome.

In Luke 11:39 Jesus told the Pharisees all about themselves, saying that they were like a clean cup on the outside, but dirty in the inside. He knew their thoughts. The way I understand the issue of salvation and works is that I understand the root concept of salvation encompasses the idea of healing or deliverance.

If a human is represented by the cup, suppose BOTH the inside and outside of the cup is dirty. Under the Law, the people did their own works of righteousness, which the Bible says are as dirty rags, our own righteousness. The better they were at doing works of the Law, the more the outside of the cup looked cleaned. But nobody would want to drink from it, because the inside was still dirty. The Law was written on tablet and parchment to reveal the internal condition of that cup, but had no ability to change it because it was not water, only parchment and stone.

So, Jesus died for the cups whether Law followers or not, knowing that EVERY cup had an unclean inside, regardless of the outside. Upon believing in Jesus, all the cups received full pardon for all previous sins so that guilt or fear would not inhibit their new future, and then he placed all his little believing cups in the dishwasher to be cleaned both inside and outside. At this point, works have had nothing to do with their internal salvation, or the forgiveness they received.

And for some of the cups this water resulted in a clean outside too. But for some reason, some of the cups were not being cleaned on the outside. Hmmm. Were they water resistant? So, a little cup named James wrote a letter to all the cups he knew in the cupboard, and addressed their condition by saying, "It's not enough to believe in the Owner of the cups. You need to also not resist the water cleaning your outside or you will remain a dirty cup."

James' was saying in effect, that if Jesus means to clean the cups, and they aren't getting cleaned, then what was the point of faith, since the water was given due to that faith? That's the same water they were resisting allowing them to be cleaned by it. Might as well not have had faith at all. Seems like a dead and pointless faith at that point.

What would you do as an owner of a cup if you placed it in your dishwasher and no matter how hard you scrub, the cup never got clean? What would you do if you kept receiving new, clean cups but a few of the first cups were never getting cleaned?

You might take those cups, who have a bit of pride being in the cupboard no matter what their condition, and throw them into the trashcan for a while so that they get SO dirty that they can't stand the smell and the feel, and they say "Mr. Owner of the cupboard, we didn't realize how much better it would be if we could be totally cleaned. Being in this trashcan stinks! Please help!" So, the owner plucks them back out, puts them back into the dishwasher and viola! Clean cups. Then the clean cups go back to the cupboard and are welcomed by the the other cups into their glorious freedom. And thus, every cup that the Owner created is now clean.

That's pretty much how I see the Gospel, in a nutshell, or a cup.

[dajomaco]

That's a good analogy . Here is mine
When I think about the Gospel I think about time.
When I first heard the good news I had a completely clear conscience before God.
This lasted for a segment of time.
We can do things that give us a unclear conscience before God for a segment of time.
We can also have an unclear conscience before God by not doing what
we believe to be loving our neighbour.
I believe all of these segments of time are eternal.
They become our crowns in heaven.
The more we are conscience of Christ the more Jesus will be conscience of us before the Father.
We will eventually be all in all. Some of us will be a bit older.

James 1-12
12 A man who endures trials[c] is blessed, because when he passes the test he will receive the crown of life that God[d] has promised to those who love Him.

2 tim 4-8
There is reserved for me in the future the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on that day, and not only to me, but to all those who have loved His appearing.
Rev
Because you have kept My command to endure,[g] I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is going to come over the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11 I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown.

[sheila]

another anology about 'cups' but what will He do with those cups that appear clean inside and out[saying I have no sin] and do

not realize that lead is in their very cup...and instead of water of life...those they serve are given a draught of lead-poisoning?

  .....the land of the dragon[china] is known for it's lead contaminated vessels that poison the waters.........

[sheila]

   the Lord has the remedy..and as such..those that belive in Him shall drink poison and not be harmed.  how is this so......

   the BRANCH even in Jesus Christ...all men shall bear the image of the incorruptible one...who has turned the 'bitter waters'

   sweet...the bitter waters being all men have bore the corrupt image,also

[Seth]

another anology about 'cups' but what will He do with those cups that appear clean inside and out[saying I have no sin] and do

not realize that lead is in their very cup...and instead of water of life...those they serve are given a draught of lead-poisoning?

  .....the land of the dragon[china] is known for it's lead contaminated vessels that poison the waters.........

I think those are the ones who talk about their miracles. I'd doubt anyone appears clean on the inside without being so. Only God knows the heart.

[eaglesway]

Ps 51

Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness;
According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity
And cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
And my sin is ever before me.
4 Against You, You only, I have sinned
And done what is evil in Your sight,
So that You are justified when You speak
And blameless when You judge.
5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
6 Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.
7 Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 Make me to hear joy and gladness,
Let the bones which You have broken rejoice.
9 Hide Your face from my sins
And blot out all my iniquities.
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 Do not cast me away from Your presence
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation
And sustain me with a willing spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners will be converted to You.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, the God of my salvation;
Then my tongue will joyfully sing of Your righteousness.
15 O Lord, open my lips,
That my mouth may declare Your praise.
16 For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it;
You are not pleased with burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
18 By Your favor do good to Zion;
Build the walls of Jerusalem.
19 Then You will delight in righteous sacrifices,
In burnt offering and whole burnt offering;
Then young bulls will be offered on Your altar.

God says I dwell in the high and holy place and with him who is of a broken and a contrite heart.

Purity, before God, is transparent humility, truth in the inner parts, a broken and a contrite heart = a pure heart= clean inside the cup, even tho the outside may appear dirty.

The parable of the man who prayed Lord have mercy on me, a sinner(clean inside) vs. the Pharisee with his list of works(clean outside), illustrates that the flaw was not in the law, under which people of humble heart could still find cleansing, but in the heart of man, who when he pursued the law in order to establish his own righteousness, offended the righteousness of God, who wanted everybody to know they needed Him to forgive them, hence sacrifices. Yet those sacrifices were not accepted by Him from those who, like Cain, sought to stand in the works of their hands before the Lord. Only the contrite could offer an acceptable sacrifice, as Abel did, and was accepted.

What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works.

Good works are acceptable sacrifices, offered as fruit of a grateful, humble heart- not accomplishing righteousness- but rather expressing love for God and man, with no accounting kept for reward(Abel).

Dead works are unacceptable sacrifices, offered as if they accomplish righteousness from a proud heart keeping count and expecting return(Cain).

Which is what Israel as a whole did, but their was always a remnant of Abel/Abraham, humble, broken and contrite, the root, within Israel. Sometimes the remnant was larger and more zealous and Israel was blessed. I think the reformers (Hezekiah, Josiah, Jehoshaphat, Zerrubabel), kings under whom Israel was raised up as the Lampstand, were given as the result of the prayers of the remnant, who were the clean inside cup of the nation.

:2c:

[Seth]

Purity, before God, is transparent humility, truth in the inner parts, a broken and a contrite heart = a pure heart= clean inside the cup, even tho the outside may appear dirty.

The way I see it, an inner brokenness such as you described could not result in a dirty outside.

Titus 1
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

[sheila]

...rather...the dirty outside is what results in the inner brokenness....that good which I want to do, I do not do,that which I do not

  desire to do,I do...WHO? will deliver me from this body undergoing this death?   it is NO LONGER I...BUT THE SIN THAT DWELLS

  IN MY FLESH[makes you feel dirty/unworthy/needful of His longsuffering grace.....=body of humility]

    God could have made us all perfect/or know no sin......but then where would mercy and long-suffering ,compassion been

   developed as a precious fruit of the spirit of LOVE.

   is love,love without the ability to show mercy,compassion? I think not.  Same forlong-suffering...how do we develop that without

the evil contrast ? you can be righteous and not show mercy under the law....but you can not be love,and be void of mercy!!!

[dajomaco]

Good works are acceptable sacrifices, offered as fruit of a grateful, humble heart- not accomplishing righteousness- but rather expressing love for God and man, with no accounting kept for reward(Abel).

:iagree:

Just saying thank you to God for Jesus is counted as a work and sacrifice.
Praise the Lord

[Seth]

...rather...the dirty outside is what results in the inner brokenness....that good which I want to do, I do not do,that which I do not

  desire to do,I do...WHO? will deliver me from this body undergoing this death?   it is NO LONGER I...BUT THE SIN THAT DWELLS

  IN MY FLESH[makes you feel dirty/unworthy/needful of His longsuffering grace.....=body of humility]

Yes, I agree. The dirty outside results in repentance. The example of the publican and the Pharisee is a perfect example of the what James was talking about in regard to faith and works. Both the Pharisee and the publican went to the same temple to pray to the same God of Abraham. But their works, as a response to their belief, were completely different.

The Pharisee bragged about less weighty matters of the Law, threw the publican under the buss and revealed his true nature of lovelessness. The publican, on the other hand, responded to faith by lowering his eyes, beating his chest, and calling out to the Lord. Those were his works. I don't think people much associate the publican with works, but I think he clearly had them as a response to his belief contained within that parable.

I don't view works as having to be like Mother Theresa, although those were some good works. Small things can be works too. I view works as the natural response to what is in the heart, even the small things like being humble, and repentant, and walking through life with a mindset of love as much as possible.

However, Jesus did not say "go and sin no more" without cause. We are not supposed to remain wretched in our outer self, at least I don't believe so. When Paul said "oh what a wretched man am I" he was talking about the motions of sin according to the Law. "Sin, that it be recognized as sin, took advantage provided by the commandment to become exceeding sinful."

That's not the Gospel of grace. That's condemnation under the Law. we are given grace that we may be set free from wretchedness and have abundant life.

[sheila]

Luke 7;41  Two men owed money to a certain moneylender...........

      Matthew 18;32....  the parable of the unmerciful servant

      ....the servants Master took pity on him,canceled the debt and let him go. But when that servant went out,he found one

  of his fellow servants that owed him money...he grabbed him and began to choke him..'pay back what you owe me!'

  ....he went off and had the man thrown in prison[cup in trashcan?] until he could pay the debt.

    YOU WICKED SERVANT,HE SAID..'I CANCELLED ALL THAT DEBT OF YOURS.........

   SHOULDN'T YOU HAVE HAD MERCY ON YOUR FELLOW SERVANT,JUST AS I HAD ON YOU?

    in anger his master had him turned over to the jailer's.

   " THIS IS HOW MY HEAVENLY FATHER WILL TREAT EACH OF YOU,UNLESS YOU FORGIVE YOUR BROTHER FROM YOUR HEART"

  ps wrote before read your reply

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

[sheila]

Seth...I know you are not real legalistic..but a lot of people coming out of Christendom/Babylon still are......and are yet maybe

confused/lack understanding.  some judge other's dirty on doctrines of men.....call no man unclean....

 

[Seth]

i think that's why we have to look at what the Bible says, and does not say, outside of Babylon and the wine we drunk there. They may be legalistic, Sheila, but along with that, ironically, they claim that their faith alone makes them righteous...and have nothing to do with forgiveness as you posted. I believe in righteousness apart from the Law, but righteousness is love. I may have the faith to move mountains, but apart from love, I am nothing.

[eaglesway]

Purity, before God, is transparent humility, truth in the inner parts, a broken and a contrite heart = a pure heart= clean inside the cup, even tho the outside may appear dirty.

The way I see it, an inner brokenness such as you described could not result in a dirty outside.

Titus 1
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

The dirty outside is in the eyes of men. As Paul said, some men's sins go before them into judgement, some men's follow after.

As an example, a person who is still struggling with any given sin, but is broken before the Lord about it, is pure- clean on the inside, although that person may not be clean to our eyes on the outside.

Another person who is struggling with something like, religious pride for instance, and appears clean on the outside, but is dirty on the inside- not broken and contrite before God.

Religious pride is just as much sin as alcoholism.

Stubbornness just as much as an anger problem.

An arrogant mind just as much as lustful eye.

Any of those 6 examples could be struggled with in honesty and brokeness, or in denial.



I think it is a common state, and not exceptional at all.

[Seth]

Purity, before God, is transparent humility, truth in the inner parts, a broken and a contrite heart = a pure heart= clean inside the cup, even tho the outside may appear dirty.

The way I see it, an inner brokenness such as you described could not result in a dirty outside.

Titus 1
15Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

The dirty outside is in the eyes of men. As Paul said, some men's sins go before them into judgement, some men's follow after.

As an example, a person who is still struggling with any given sin, but is broken before the Lord about it, is pure- clean on the inside, although that person may not be clean to our eyes on the outside.
Another person who is struggling with something like, religious pride for instance, and appears clean on the outside, but is dirty on the inside- not broken and contrite before God.

Absolutely. My example of the cup is from the perspective of how GOD views defilement, from the inside out. Not from how man judges it. That's the example James brought forth in his chapter 2. Good fruit comes forth from a good tree. That's doesn't make anyone perfect.

2 Peter 2
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

I don't see much inner struggle present in Peters example of a "natural brute beast."

[eaglesway]

I would see natural brute beasts as dirty on the inside and out. I guess there are a lot of possibilities in interpretation of some of these passages and how we define the categories they fit :o)

[Seth]

I would see natural brute beasts as dirty on the inside and out. I guess there are a lot of possibilities in interpretation of some of these passages and how we define the categories they fit :o)

Yes I would agree. I don't think that someone pure in heart would behave as Peter described.

[Seth]

It's like what Jesus said about the cup

Luke 11
39 Then the Lord said to him, "Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.

As far as judging eachother, we shouldn't. But we can know what Jesus takes for unclean. So, while we shouldn't judge people we don't even know, living in close fellowship with eachother, I think it became self evident in the early church how to tell the devouring wolves from the sheep. Paul said that the works of the flesh are manifest (ie not hidden, out in open, evident).

[sheila]

...the way I see it...some men are given over to satan for the destruction of their flesh[vessels of wrath] in order that the

spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord......they are no more than the 'man in the corrupt image'  which is man that is

  poor[robbed] in the spirit[ by godlessness]...and of which God must give the riches of faith,too.natural man first/then spiritual.

   personally,I think these such men..are but a legion of demon's captive........let him that is to go into captivity,go into captivity.

      Nothing is impossible with God..He can kill and make alive...according unto His will.

     

    He comes and breaks up..the wicked works of the prince of this world..with an iron rod..and breaks the clay vessels..so

  that the spirit of man may return unto God and be made into a vessel of honour. Nothing is impossible with God.

     His blood bought the potter's field..for the burial of the poor........

   

         

   

[sheila]

   you know,Jesus said 'from now on call no man unclean"  yet we know He went about casting out unclean spirits out of men......

   these evil/unclean spirits are the defilement..I think........Can two walk togather without agreeing? God will annul their covenant

  with death.[as often as it passes through,it will not come near me]

  I know a man..that when he was very young went to Viet Nam[draft] He told me that within about the first two

  months,he caught on that it was the 'good' guys that always got killed first. So, he decided that if he had to be be the meanest,

  orneriest so-and-so he would..to survive.  He really had a lot of misery the rest of his days..and died a few years ago......a hard

  man.   Christ setting free all those who through their whole lives were sin's captive..through fear of death,comes to mind.

[Seth]

It is what proceeds from out of the heart that defileth.

Titus 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Hebrews 12
14Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: 15Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

[dajomaco]

26 But Peter helped him up and said, "Stand up! I myself am also a man."  27 While talking with him, he went on in and found that many had come together there.  28 Peter said to them, "You know it's forbidden for a Jewish man to associate with or visit a foreigner. But God has shown me that I must not call any person common or unclean. 

[Seth]

So either those three previous scriptures are contradicting, or there is a way to understand them so that they don't contradict. My understanding is this:

Peter was hungry and had a vision about what to eat. This vision essentially killed two birds with one stone. Peter was hungry, but his larger issue was with Gentiles. He didn't want to eat with them, because he had always been taught that they were essentially unclean concerning the Law. This is in reference to:

Leviticus 20
25 "'You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the ground—those that I have set apart as unclean for you. 26 You are to be holy to me because I, the Lord, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations (ethnos - Gentiles) to be my own.

Peter was not simply rejecting the notion that animals are no longer unclean of themselves, but that Gentiles were not unclean by virtue of being Gentiles. God was now accepting all races, all people into his company. In other words, Gentiles were no longer to be associated with unclean in the sense of separation from ethnic Jewish people.

But Jesus made the differentiation here:

Matthew 15
15Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 16And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 17Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

That is the rationale that Paul is applying here:

Ephesians 5
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

I think it's interesting, and telling, that Paul admonishes the Ephesians not to be partakers with those people, according to what they do, not according to what they are ethnically. That's quite a change.

[eaglesway]

God was showing Peter, in Acts, that He had admitted the Gentiles(as a theoretical whole through the gospel) for cleansing, or better, He had(in eternal terms/ultimat fulfillment) made them clean, able to receive cleansing in Christ. This was a paradigm incorporating the whole of mankind.

I really dont see any big change in Paul exhorting believers not to consort with people who were actively engaed in egregious sins- it is not a paradigm shift. it is an exhortation limited to specific action in the present time, having no bearing on the overall cleansing of the Gentiles as a whole in terms of the utlimate redemption of all in Christ- but being focused rather in the time realm pertaining to present conduct.

We are "set apart from the nations" as a preisthood, having received the cleansing. We are a "peculiar" people. We are a "first-fruit of His creation". But as a whole, in the end view, the Gentiles have been "made clean" in relationship to being admissable to the fellowship of the  house of God and His covenants.   :2c: