Can man help but sin?

[jbertonbounds]

Can man help but sin?  :dontknow:

If man can choose not to sin, then eternal torment is fair, and God is just in casting any sinner into hell forever. Man can choose his eternal fate, and can save himself by refusing to sin. Man can be perfect and live perfect lives. Man is equal to God himself in a sense, and is not in need of a savior. Jesus the christ died in vain. The Law is only a nice list of suggestions for better living. The love of God and the Word of God are benign. :doh:

If man cannot help but sin, and since God is a just god, eternal torment can be neither true, nor just, and hell is a myth. Man needs a savior, and Jesus the christ died to fulfil the requirement of the Law, which required the death penalty for sin. The love is God is equal to the power of God, and the Word of God is Jesus, the savior of all mankind. :HeartThrob:

One thing is for sure: this man cannot help but sin. I never had a choice but to sin. I never had a chance to be perfect. I have never gone a day without sinning. There are few sins in my life that I can really control. There are many temptations in my life I can resist, and many I cannot resist. Many are simply beyond my ability to abstain from. As frustrating as it is to want to live a perfect life and not be able to, I still never stop sinning, repenting, and trying not to sin, as vain as my efforts are. :sigh: I long for the day when sin will be no more. 
:dsunny:
Lord Jesus come quickly.

[dajomaco]

When sin is taken out of the equation.
A relationship with God is easy. (Light)

Sin makes things complicated.
Jesus makes things uncomplicated.

I can not get the idea, out of my mind that my sin is displeasing God.

I know in faith every thing is OK between me and God because of Jesus.
The more I think upon Christ the less I sin.
I do believe that God was pleased by Jesus and his obedience to the Cross.

[Lazarus Short]

Man sins.  Man cannot help but sin.  However, there is a lesson in it.  :Chinscratch:

[eaglesway]

The spirit desires against the flesh and the flesh desires against the spirit so that you can't always do the things that you want to.

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Be strengthened with might by His spirit in your inner man

Be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are good........think on these things.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

Let not many of you be teachers, for as such you will have stricter judgment.......We all stumble in many ways.

If you see some one in a fault, let the ones who are mature among you(humble, wise, forgiving, of a redemptive, reconciling spirit) restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you yourself stumble

If you see someone committing a sin not unto death, pray for them, and God will give them life for their sin.

Confess your faults one to another and pray for each other that you may be healed.

Forgive one another

Forbear one another

Be kind to one another

Bear one another's burdens

Love one another

Love covers a multitude of sins.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

The spirit desires against the flesh and the flesh desires against the spirit so that you can't always do the things that you want to.

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Be strengthened with might by His spirit in your inner man

Be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are good........think on these things.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

Let not many of you be teachers, for as such you will have stricter judgment.......We all stumble in many ways.

If you see some one in a fault, let the ones who are mature among you(humble, wise, forgiving, of a redemptive, reconciling spirit) restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you yourself stumble

If you see someone committing a sin not unto death, pray for them, and God will give them life for their sin.

Confess your faults one to another and pray for each other that you may be healed.

Forgive one another

Forbear one another

Be kind to one another

Bear one another's burdens

Love one another

Love covers a multitude of sins.

That's how I see it

[Graph1159]

Can man help but sin?  :dontknow:

Man needs a savior, and Jesus the christ died to fulfil the requirement of the Law, which required the death penalty for sin. The love is God is equal to the power of God, and the Word of God is Jesus, the savior of all mankind. :HeartThrob:

One thing is for sure: this man cannot help but sin. I never had a choice but to sin. I never had a chance to be perfect. I have never gone a day without sinning. There are few sins in my life that I can really control. There are many temptations in my life I can resist, and many I cannot resist. Many are simply beyond my ability to abstain from. As frustrating as it is to want to live a perfect life and not be able to, I still never stop sinning, repenting, and trying not to sin, as vain as my efforts are. :sigh: I long for the day when sin will be no more. 
:dsunny:
Lord Jesus come quickly.

Hi JBerton,
I identify strongly with what you wrote. For me, this is what Ultimate Reconciliation is all about, and it is the reason I believe in Christ's saving power. Christ died to sin and rose again so that we could be set free from sin's power (Romans 6). I yearn to experience this freedom and I trust in God to work in me "to will and to work" (Phil. 2:13) such that my life undergoes this process of transformation. Left to myself, I know I cannot make myself become what the Bible commands. I've seen the predicament depicted in Romans 7 quite clearly in my own life.

Some people have asked, if everybody will be saved, why bother repenting? If the core of UR is simply universal forgiveness or tolerance, as it is sometimes depicted, that may be a reasonable objection. But if the Gospel is not only forgiveness but also freedom from sin's power for everyone, then repentance is a matter of acknowledging the ultimate reality and seeking to align my life with it. This, for me, is a much better motivation than fear of eternal punishment.

When I first came to believe in UR 3 years ago, I was mostly relieved that nobody would have to suffer forever. But I have since come to see that this truth means much more for our lives than I previously realized.

Samuel

[jabcat]

I trust in God to work in me "to will and to work" (Phil. 2:13) such that my life undergoes this process of transformation. Left to myself, I know I cannot make myself become what the Bible commands. I've seen the predicament depicted in Romans 7 quite clearly in my own life.

Some people have asked, if everybody will be saved, why bother repenting? If the core of UR is simply universal forgiveness or tolerance, as it is sometimes depicted, that may be a reasonable objection. But if the Gospel is not only forgiveness but also freedom from sin's power for everyone, then repentance is a matter of acknowledging the ultimate reality and seeking to align my life with it. This, for me, is a much better motivation than fear of eternal punishment.

When I first came to believe in UR 3 years ago, I was mostly relieved that nobody would have to suffer forever. But I have since come to see that this truth means much more for our lives than I previously realized.

:thumbsup:

[jbertonbounds]

Hi JBerton,
I identify strongly with what you wrote. For me, this is what Ultimate Reconciliation is all about, and it is the reason I believe in Christ's saving power. Christ died to sin and rose again so that we could be set free from sin's power (Romans 6). I yearn to experience this freedom and I trust in God to work in me "to will and to work" (Phil. 2:13) such that my life undergoes this process of transformation. Left to myself, I know I cannot make myself become what the Bible commands. I've seen the predicament depicted in Romans 7 quite clearly in my own life.

Some people have asked, if everybody will be saved, why bother repenting? If the core of UR is simply universal forgiveness or tolerance, as it is sometimes depicted, that may be a reasonable objection. But if the Gospel is not only forgiveness but also freedom from sin's power for everyone, then repentance is a matter of acknowledging the ultimate reality and seeking to align my life with it. This, for me, is a much better motivation than fear of eternal punishment.

When I first came to believe in UR 3 years ago, I was mostly relieved that nobody would have to suffer forever. But I have since come to see that this truth means much more for our lives than I previously realized.

Samuel

:thumbsup:

I was merely relieved that there is no hell at first too. But then I quit organized church and church doctrines, and the longer I stay away, the more truth the Spirit teaches me. Now I see that for me it was IMPOSSIBLE to stay in the organized church and continue to learn truth from the unadulterated scriptures. Now I never hear teaching from the mainstream church that I completely agree with. And yes, the truth of UR is a MUCH better motivator that the lies of ET.

And I can totally relate to Romans 7!

[jbertonbounds]

The spirit desires against the flesh and the flesh desires against the spirit so that you can't always do the things that you want to.

Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Be strengthened with might by His spirit in your inner man

Be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are good........think on these things.

If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

Let not many of you be teachers, for as such you will have stricter judgment.......We all stumble in many ways.

If you see some one in a fault, let the ones who are mature among you(humble, wise, forgiving, of a redemptive, reconciling spirit) restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you yourself stumble

If you see someone committing a sin not unto death, pray for them, and God will give them life for their sin.

Confess your faults one to another and pray for each other that you may be healed.

Forgive one another

Forbear one another

Be kind to one another

Bear one another's burdens

Love one another

Love covers a multitude of sins.

:thumbsup:

[jbertonbounds]

Man sins.  Man cannot help but sin.  However, there is a lesson in it.  :Chinscratch:

Can you elaborate?

[Seth]

If man cannot help but sin, then there was no point in God giving us the Spirit to walk in it. That's my opinion on it. Romans 7 is a description of trying to follow righteousness under the Law. But deliverance is not found through the letter but by the Spirit which is the whole point of the New Covenant. Sin is lawlessness. There are two commandments under the New Covenant, believe in Christ and love your neighbor. God gives us empowerment to do that through the indwelling of Christ sitting in his temple, which is you. Perfection isn't the issue for me. Growing in Grace and humility, running the race, that's what I think the issue is.

[Seth]

Just to be clear I do believe that man cannot help but be born with the heart of a beast. That's our natural state. But I also believe Jesus came to save us from operating that way, even in this life. I just remember the woman to desperately reached out further hem of Christ's garment believing it would save her from her ailment. If we don't believe we can be healed, how can we expect to be?

[marie glen]

Some people have asked, if everybody will be saved, why bother repenting? If the core of UR is simply universal forgiveness or tolerance, as it is sometimes depicted, that may be a reasonable objection. But if the Gospel is not only forgiveness but also freedom from sin's power for everyone, then repentance is a matter of acknowledging the ultimate reality and seeking to align my life with it. This, for me, is a much better motivation than fear of eternal punishment.


Samuel

Like others,  :iagree: :iagree:

I love logic! Thankful for thinking ability and reasoning.. Logic is 2nd only to God's Word!

I feel we are all, in heaven and earth, in a great learning and training program, and His total will is being written and deeply engraved upon every heart and mind. In the 'end' I think we will find Truth/His Will, to be Logic. (Perfect logic, of course.)

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Can man help but sin?  :dontknow:

If man can choose not to sin, then eternal torment is fair, and God is just in casting any sinner into hell forever. Man can choose his eternal fate, and can save himself by refusing to sin. Man can be perfect and live perfect lives. Man is equal to God himself in a sense, and is not in need of a savior. Jesus the christ died in vain. The Law is only a nice list of suggestions for better living. The love of God and the Word of God are benign. :doh:

If man can work his own salvation, then God wouldn't need to send Lord Jesus to save us all. We must never forget that he came for us.

[Lazarus Short]

Man sins.  Man cannot help but sin.  However, there is a lesson in it.  :Chinscratch:

Can you elaborate?

Yes.

I believe God uses evil and the results of our sin + bad decisions to teach a lesson.  The lesson is, in general terms, that we need God and what He can and will do for us, being unable to do any of it for ourselves.  If life is bad, we look to God.

Or, look at it this way - God, strict taskmaster, instructed His people to follow a set of rules, enforce them on others, and teach their precepts to their children.  God knew His pupils were not up to the task, but it was a lesson for them, and for future generations, who could examine the history of Israel and see that no one, from then to now, is up to the task - except for Jesus the Christ.  The law even made provision for a Man who could obey perfectly, but I can't quote chapter & verse on it.

Or, look at it this way - God made His law strict to show us just what we really are:  vile, wretched, sinners.  Further, to show us that we are vile, wretched, sinners in need of a Savior.

Or, look at it this way - God made His law in order to show us that the Spirit of Life is not enough, that being merely alive is not enough.  He wants us to understand that we need the other six Spirits, and in full measure.

[jbertonbounds]

If man cannot help but sin, then there was no point in God giving us the Spirit to walk in it. That's my opinion on it. Romans 7 is a description of trying to follow righteousness under the Law. But deliverance is not found through the letter but by the Spirit which is the whole point of the New Covenant. Sin is lawlessness. There are two commandments under the New Covenant, believe in Christ and love your neighbor. God gives us empowerment to do that through the indwelling of Christ sitting in his temple, which is you. Perfection isn't the issue for me. Growing in Grace and humility, running the race, that's what I think the issue is.

I was speaking of sin on a broader scale - sin in general. We certainly can keep ourselves from committing certain sins, and we can abstain from sin as a practice or lifestyle. But we cannot abstain from sin altogether all the time.

[jbertonbounds]

Like others,  :iagree: :iagree:

I love logic! Thankful for thinking ability and reasoning.. Logic is 2nd only to God's Word!

I feel we are all, in heaven and earth, in a great learning and training program, and His total will is being written and deeply engraved upon every heart and mind. In the 'end' I think we will find Truth/His Will, to be Logic. (Perfect logic, of course.)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Seth]

If man cannot help but sin, then there was no point in God giving us the Spirit to walk in it. That's my opinion on it. Romans 7 is a description of trying to follow righteousness under the Law. But deliverance is not found through the letter but by the Spirit which is the whole point of the New Covenant. Sin is lawlessness. There are two commandments under the New Covenant, believe in Christ and love your neighbor. God gives us empowerment to do that through the indwelling of Christ sitting in his temple, which is you. Perfection isn't the issue for me. Growing in Grace and humility, running the race, that's what I think the issue is.

I was speaking of sin on a broader scale - sin in general. We certainly can keep ourselves from committing certain sins, and we can abstain from sin as a practice or lifestyle. But we cannot abstain from sin altogether all the time.

I agree, we can't be perfect. Even Paul said he hadn't obtained perfection.  :thumbsup:

[jbertonbounds]

Man sins.  Man cannot help but sin. However, there is a lesson in it. :Chinscratch:

Can you elaborate?

Yes.

I believe God uses evil and the results of our sin + bad decisions to teach a lesson.  The lesson is, in general terms, that we need God and what He can and will do for us, being unable to do any of it for ourselves.  If life is bad, we look to God.

Or, look at it this way - God, strict taskmaster, instructed His people to follow a set of rules, enforce them on others, and teach their precepts to their children.  God knew His pupils were not up to the task, but it was a lesson for them, and for future generations, who could examine the history of Israel and see that no one, from then to now, is up to the task - except for Jesus the Christ.  The law even made provision for a Man who could obey perfectly, but I can't quote chapter & verse on it.

Or, look at it this way - God made His law strict to show us just what we really are:  vile, wretched, sinners.  Further, to show us that we are vile, wretched, sinners in need of a Savior.

Or, look at it this way - God made His law in order to show us that the Spirit of Life is not enough, that being merely alive is not enough. He wants us to understand that we need the other six Spirits, and in full measure.

What are the seven spirits to which you are referring?

[dajomaco]

My flesh has a relationship with God based on sin. (my flesh dead?)
My spirit has a relationship with God based on faith.
The faith I have that Jesus pleased the Father is enough for the whole of humanity.
The obedience of Jesus to the cross is enough obedience for all of mankind.
I can love my neighbour as myself, knowing that the requirements of
righteousness is faith in Christ. 

[Seth]

My flesh has a relationship with God based on sin. (my flesh dead?)
My spirit has a relationship with God based on faith.
The faith I have that Jesus pleased the Father is enough for the whole of humanity.
The obedience of Jesus to the cross is enough obedience for all of mankind.
I can love my neighbour as myself, knowing that the requirements of
righteousness is faith in Christ.

from what I see in the scriptures, the obedience of Christ on the cross was to create a whole new people in him who are obedient to God's commandments which are to believe in Christ AND love your neighbor. Anything short of those commandments is lawlessness.

[micah7:9]

Without the drawing of the Father, the vessel dwells in darkness...
Until the Holy spirit begins to illuminate the desolation of that pit...
And living water begins to moisten dried and arid clay.....
Man is bound to sin.....yes,  mindfully, he was made in such a way...
A very mystery for sure, that I must admit, yet the Lord has said
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways.

[dajomaco]

My flesh has a relationship with God based on sin. (my flesh dead?)
My spirit has a relationship with God based on faith.
The faith I have that Jesus pleased the Father is enough for the whole of humanity.
The obedience of Jesus to the cross is enough obedience for all of mankind.
I can love my neighbour as myself, knowing that the requirements of
righteousness is faith in Christ.

from what I see in the scriptures, the obedience of Christ on the cross was to create a whole new people in him who are obedient to God's commandments which are to believe in Christ AND love your neighbor. Anything short of those commandments is lawlessness.

I believe the beauty of the commandments to Love the Lord and to Love my neighbor.
The commandment is not made more beautiful by describing the Evil it is not. 

[Seth]

I don't personally think the point is to make commandments more or less beautiful, but simply to do them and that's where I think beauty results. Sometimes knowing what not to do is part of that. Knowing what lawlessness is and what it's not.

[Lazarus Short]

What are the seven spirits to which you are referring?

One is the Spirit of Life, breathed into Adam, and presumably, all air-breathers.  The other six I need to track down, but I think they are all mentioned in the Bible.

EDIT
I did some quick www research, and got this:

The spirit of Life - from Genesis 2:7

From Isaiah 11:2, we get:
The spirit of wisdom.
The spirit of understanding.
The spirit of counsel.
The spirit of might.
The spirit of knowledge.
The spirit of the fear of Jehovah.