2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

[clifford817499]

 2 thess 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
                  12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


what do you think the strong delusion is? there are "lost gospels" that have resurfaced....and the bible we have seems to contradict itself at times....makes me wonder.......thoughts?

[Seth]

Hi Clifford,
I believe it has to do with God's method of correction as explained in Romans 1. God would send strong delusion as a way to bring destruction upon those who "delight in wickedness" so that, as with the Prodigal Son, when the house is destroyed, the builder will be saved. It's about hastening repentance by turning them over to what they think they want, until what they want takes away everything they have, if that makes sense. When all you have is gone in this world, all that's left is Jesus.

[bushy]

2 thess 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
                  12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


what do you think the strong delusion is? there are "lost gospels" that have resurfaced....and the bible we have seems to contradict itself at times....makes me wonder.......thoughts?

11 Peter 3:
14
Therefore, beloved, since you await these things, be eager to be found without spot or blemish before him, at peace.
15
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
16
speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
17
Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.
18
But grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory now and to the day of eternity.

Cliff, I'm not calling you ignorant and unstable like it says in verse 16 but it does sound like you have basic questions about the bible. I don't consider myself ignorant and unstable either but I don't spend too much time on difficult questions. Instead, there are some plain and simple truths that have touched down deep in me and those are the scriptures I meditate on. Those are my thoughts.  :gimmefive:

[Lazarus Short]

Remember that both good and evil come from God, and that God states thru Jesus that not all are to be privy to the Secrets of the Kingdom.  Our very faith is a gift from Him.

Welcome to the best site on the www, BTW! :friendstu: :gimmefive: :friendstu:

[sheila]

   scriptures are talking about the rebellion..the revealing of the lawless one..that sits in God's temple[men's body] and says it is

God...  with lying signs etc.  False prophet/anti/Christ spirit,  the 'man' doomed to destruction.

   See Jesus judgement..to those who say...'In Your name we did thus and thus' these are the deluded men of this spirit....

   He says..'get away from me ye workers of lawlessness...I know you not"


     so that all will be condemned..who have not believed the truth..but took pleasure in a lie...........consider the delusion Eve

was under.........all were bound up in sin/no flesh will boast....all men are condemned of sin...and all will receive mercy.

   consider the lying spirit sent forth..to make a man fall to deceive him..so that all mankind would be bound up in sin..

   The Truth was..do not eat of the TOKOGAE lest ye die.  Eve took pleasure in a lie..in that she 'chose' to believe it.

   this is so all men be saved of Grace..and no man boast in his flesh[saying..'I have no sin/error"  even the saints were

overcome....and those saying 'Lord,Lord..didn't we do thus and thus in your name'  found themselves deceived of a

seducing spirit that sat in their temple...so that all flesh may be silent before Him.

     now in these last days...we called out of Babylon..know that we have been overcome and deceived..when we believed

    such lies of fiery torture forever and condemned the greatest part of mankind to eternal death........all self-righteousness

  of man must cease!  We all must know that what is impossible with men..is possible with God.

   a humble and lowly people is what will remain.

   now some will say that it is impossible for the elect to be deceived....but the 'saints' were overcome...and it takes a

   REVEALATION OF CHRIST TO THEM..TO REVEAL THE FATHER,THE SON AND THE HOLY GHOST AND THE SONS OF GOD.

   We were told to judge nothing before the appointed time..but saints did just that; 'churches' ruled as kings on the earth

  judging and putting to death 'infidels' etc........Just as John the Baptist preached to overcome Israel in the wilderness...

  to prepare the way of the Lord...and make straight paths for your feet.  so,too,today...we are called out of overcome

  Christendom...and BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD

[sheila]

I enjoy reading many of the lost Gospels......I ask...wasn't the knowledge of the salvation of ALL men..lost to us...by those

  who took the 'word of God' in scripture form[bible] and twisted/mis-interpreted it per man's limited understanding..and

  not per the Holy spirit.?

[dajomaco]

The strong delusion is our intellect telling us that the Bible contradicts itself.

Without the faith given to us by the Spirit,
we can intellectually argue any point of view ,and say it comes from scripture.

Everyone needs some measure of Faith,
to believe that God raised Jesus from the Dead.

With the same faith we can search scriptures and find the Glory of the Good news.
 

[joeteekay]

Welcome to the tent (tabernacle). I think you will be enlightened by the discussions. I agree 100% with Laz, best site on the WWW.

[RonnyTX]

Remember that both good and evil come from God, and that God states thru Jesus that not all are to be privy to the Secrets of the Kingdom.  Our very faith is a gift from Him.

Welcome to the best site on the www, BTW! :friendstu: :gimmefive: :friendstu:

Ronny to Lazarus:
True,our faith is a gift from God and for that,I am so thankful. :-) And true as well,that both good and evil, come from God. And when evil does come into my life,it is so good to know that it has come from God to me,for my own good,that it will come to an end and that God/Jesus Christ is in control of all things! :-)

And just recently,I have posted in another group;but I am not sure yet,if the owner of the other group will put my last post up or not? Will have to wait and see. But there he was posting about God creating all out of nothing and he made the comment,that God didn't create evil. Well,I posted back to that and included the scripture from Genesis,where God created the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And I also put in Isaiah 45:5,7. "I am the Lord and there is none else,there is no God beside me. I girded thee,
though thou hast not known me. That they may know from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord and there is none else. I form the light and created darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."

Like I say,will have to wait and see,if the owner of that group,will let that post show up or not? And I've just posted a very little in that group;but so far,he has let my posts show up. Just takes several hours sometimes or overnight. Too,the guy is Arminian in belief,so,I suppose he believes the Christians saving faith is from that person and not from God and not a gift from God? I suppose that;but I haven't read enough on this guy,to say for sure?

[Lazarus Short]

Ronny, I was raised in Southern Baptist churches, but took a detour into atheism for some years.  When I became a Christian for real, I had the advantage of being a sort of tabula rasa with no theological/theoillogical biases or preconceptions.  It has enabled me to read what the Bible really says without my intellect constantly resetting the concepts.  One of those things was God's creation of good AND evil, but I did notice that He never claimed to have created Hell.

[eaglesway]

I believe the core delusion is that we,of our own selves, can be as gods.

[RonnyTX]

Ronny, I was raised in Southern Baptist churches, but took a detour into atheism for some years.  When I became a Christian for real, I had the advantage of being a sort of tabula rasa with no theological/theoillogical biases or preconceptions.  It has enabled me to read what the Bible really says without my intellect constantly resetting the concepts.  One of those things was God's creation of good AND evil, but I did notice that He never claimed to have created Hell.

Ronny to Lazarus:
With me,I was in my first church,from birth until about 25 years old. A church split then and in a 2nd church,around 2 years-until it closed. Then I can truthfully say,God allowed me to escape the local church. I escaped it physically;but not mentally And of course,in church,I was taught to believe in hell;but Lazarus,what I never remember seeing back then,was the creation of hell,was never mentioned in the Bible and that Adam and Eve,etc,were never warned of this hell,by God. But only told,that death was the wages of sin.

And I liked that last pastor,that we had at the 2nd church I was in. He was Arminian in belief and I was Calvinist then,so didn't agree with him on everything;but the guy was just likeable and most important to me,he had caring for people and had humility and he never acted like a know-it-all. And later on,it was an Arminian preacher on TV,who God used to help me,break free from my local church brainwashing. For I was still in bondage to that,from around 25 to 40 years old. But this one preacher on TV,he was one who encourage people to talk to and simply ask God. Ask God,when we simply didn't know something. And that's exactly what I did,after some things I'd been taught to believe in that church,were called into question for me. And just thinking,this TV preacher,he also displayed caring for people and had humility.

Just thinking now,of that young fellow in the Old Testament,whose brothers were jealous of him and ended up selling him into slavery. But at the last,God worked that out for good,not just for him;but for a lot of people. And years later,when he met up with his brothers again,he told them you meant what you did for evil;but God meant it for good. :-) He let them know,that it was God who directed what they did and God brought good out of it. So he didn't come down hot and heavy on his brothers,like they probably thought he would. But when I think of that guys life,in some ways it reminds me of mine. The part where God let me stay in prison/slavery,for a good long time;but then God brought me out of that. And I know, that God did such and meant such for good. :-) And yes,in here and in many other places online,I have told various people,what God has done for me,in my lifetime. What God has allowed me to go though and what God has brought me out of. And when I tell that,I think it is helping,to some people. It's also contraversial to some,because some don't like at all,some of the things,I have to say. :-) But whether they do of not,I'm still going to tell some things. Think God gave me as well,that bit of a stubborn streak! :-)

[RonnyTX]

Welcome to Tentmaker Clifford. :-)

Would of tried to answer your question this evening late;but was so tired,I had to take a nap. Then other things,that had to be done. So before I even try to answer such,I want to read that section of scripture and just think on it some. Again,good to see you here. :-)

[marie glen]

2 thess 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
                  12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


what do you think the strong delusion is? there are "lost gospels" that have resurfaced....and the bible we have seems to contradict itself at times....makes me wonder.......thoughts?

hi! I believe the strong delusion is the same as the false prophet.. which started out as a man (Darwin) but others ran with it, and now it has turned Christendom on its ear, and taking the world down a different path now.. and we haven't I believe seen the end of it.

I agree with Eaglesway that the greatest delusion is that we can be a 'god' or like 'gods' and I believe this is what Darwin's (outdated0 theory says. Man is the highest power.. he decides good and evil.. "Sitting in the temple shewing himself he is god' - metaphor (imo).
                   :smile:

[RonnyTX]

2 thess 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
                  12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

what do you think the strong delusion is? there are "lost gospels" that have resurfaced....and the bible we have seems to contradict itself at times....makes me wonder.......thoughts?

Ronny to Clifford:
Clifford,I'm just not sure? But what I see in the verses above that,is that Paul is telling the Thessalonian Christians,that before the coming of the Lord and our gathering together unto him,there would have to come a falling away first. And Paul says,that day would not come ,the day of the Lord,until the falling away came and the man of sin,the son of perdition,was revealed. And he says that man would oppose God and exalt himself above God and that he as God,would sit in the temple of God,showing that he is God. And a bit later on,Paul says and then shall that Wicked be revealed,whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. And Paul says this one that shall be destroyed,that his coming is after the working of Satan,with all power and signs and lying wonders. It's good to read the chapter before this and the one after as well. And I could be wrong on this;but I would ask,in the last nearly 2,000 years,who has set himself up in the temple of God and acted as if he was God?

[RonnyTX]

Ronny, I was raised in Southern Baptist churches, but took a detour into atheism for some years.  When I became a Christian for real, I had the advantage of being a sort of tabula rasa with no theological/theoillogical biases or preconceptions.  It has enabled me to read what the Bible really says without my intellect constantly resetting the concepts.  One of those things was God's creation of good AND evil, but I did notice that He never claimed to have created Hell.

Ronny to Lazarus:
Lazarus,I hope you don't mind me asking;but I'm curious as to how/why you took a detour into atheism, after being raised up in Southern Baptist churches?

And here's a kicker for me. I have posted online,for around 15 years now and in that time,I found I could post easier around some who were atheist,than around some,who said they were Christian. And in the last 5 years,since God revealed the truth of universal salvation to me,I've found I can more easily tell the good news/gospel of Jesus Christ,to those who are atheist in belief,as opposed to those who are Christian and or who say they are. Not that the atheist persons in belief,have agreed with me;but then they can plainly see,that I'm not condemning them or putting myself up above them or telling them that they must believe what I say or die and go to a hell of eternal torment.

Thinking here Lazarus,that the greatest cause of atheism,is some lies taught by others and that passed on down though the generations and that by people,who say they are Christian. For now I can plainly see,why those who say they are atheist,believe a lot that way,given the lies they have heard taught, about God/Jesus Christ,by those who say they are believers in and followers of God/Jesus Christ.

And I know Ghandi wasn't an atheist;but when I heard something he said,it did put a smile on my face. That is,him saying,I like your Jesus;but I don't like you Christians. Well,I can certainly understand,why the man would feel that way and say that. And maybe that's why I can get along better online at times, with some people who are atheist in belief? Because I can see where they are coming from and why?

[RonnyTX]

I believe the core delusion is that we,of our own selves, can be as gods.

Ronny to Eaglesway:
Isn't that the lie,that the serpent/Satan told Eve,in the garden of Eden?

[Lazarus Short]

I believe the core delusion is that we,of our own selves, can be as gods.

Ronny to Eaglesway:
Isn't that the lie,that the serpent/Satan told Eve,in the garden of Eden?

Yes!  Yes!  The lie germinated, took root, and is now in full flower.

Ronny, as to my atheism, all I can say is that I came across Ayn Rand and Libertarianism.  Oddly, the Libertarian Party seems to have been taken over by the Republicans.  I'm guessing they like the intellectual underpinnings, so they can be greedy Capitalists without apology.  Fundamentalist right-wing Christianity is now wedded to big business materialism - a sad state of affairs.  Somewhere along the way from atheism and Libertarianism, I came across a fleeting Christian Libertarian movement, and their publication Galatians Seven.   

[eaglesway]

Yes, it was the first lie, and as I see it is the seed, the core, the fountainhead of all lies.

[micah7:9]

The industry of christianity. :2c:

[dajomaco]

When I experience the Love of God .
I do not need the scriptures to prove that God is Love.

The scriptures are a telling of Gods Love.
I can freely embrace scriptures as the word of God the word of Love.

The scriptures will never bring me shame.
When I looked to scriptures before I understood that God is Love.
The scriptures always brought me shame.

If I could prove that scriptures where unreliable I would have no shame.

God is greater than my understanding.

[eaglesway]

When I experience the Love of God .
I do not need the scriptures to prove that God is Love.

The scriptures are a telling of Gods Love.
I can freely embrace scriptures as the word of God the word of Love.

The scriptures will never bring me shame.
When I looked to scriptures before I understood that God is Love.
The scriptures always brought me shame.

If I could prove that scriptures where unreliable I would have no shame.

God is greater than my understanding.

Ah Ha! A divine riddle! Henceforth I will speak to you in parables revealing mysteries hidden from the foundation of the world.

Wonderful post. :o)