Hell-everlasting torment

[micah7:9]

It seems that Christians who believe in Jesus Christ and His saving grace are pretty darn adamant that people who don't believe in Jesus Christ are going to a hell and well deserved. They believe, and staunchly, that a hell of eternal torment is the portion set aside for those who don't see things their way.
I am just amazed and astonished that no matter how much I may speak that LOVE...it's essence.... cannot possibly work that way, they cannot see anything else, but that that kind of eternity is dealt out from a Savior who died, just for that kind of thinking.....HATE. It truly is sad and amazing. Just some thoughts after I watched some youtubes that say that universal salvation is not biblical. The power of believing, be it right or wrong, is one heck of a stimulant.
I know and Live.....He Is Risen.....perhaps accepting that Jesus The King who died for the sin of the world and acknowledging that people will not realize and understand that He is the Savior of the world is just a small part of the, singular, me and you, is the tribulation one must go through and holding on.......Stand therefore. Isa. 45:23
I'm venting :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

A lot of the Hell-proponents will also be staunch creationists, who like to go back to Genesis.  Remind them that the first chapter of Genesis states that God made the Heavens and the Earth.  The creation of Hell is not mentioned.  All else follows, or rather, does not follow, from that.

For yourself, remember that God's stated Purpose is for many to NOT have understanding of the secrets of the Kingdom.  Jesus said as much.

[lomarah]

I know that for me, I was in hell when I believed that my Father may not actually love and save all of His children. It was a literal hell worrying about my loved ones and not knowing whether or not I could truly trust the Father that I had so loved and trusted in the beginning.

I would bet Micah, that the people you have been speaking with are also in hell. They just don't realize it.

[rosered]

AMEN  HOLLY !!!  JOHN 1 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

also  Hell is the grave and in Psalms    it says  where ever we are he is there!!!!!
no flesh is  able to know or glory in the things of God 
only His Spirit    and those born of it  :dsunny:

[RonnyTX]

It seems that Christians who believe in Jesus Christ and His saving grace are pretty darn adamant that people who don't believe in Jesus Christ are going to a hell and well deserved. They believe, and staunchly, that a hell of eternal torment is the portion set aside for those who don't see things their way.
I am just amazed and astonished that no matter how much I may speak that LOVE...it's essence.... cannot possibly work that way, they cannot see anything else, but that that kind of eternity is dealt out from a Savior who died, just for that kind of thinking.....HATE. It truly is sad and amazing. Just some thoughts after I watched some youtubes that say that universal salvation is not biblical. The power of believing, be it right or wrong, is one heck of a stimulant.
I know and Live.....He Is Risen.....perhaps accepting that Jesus The King who died for the sin of the world and acknowledging that people will not realize and understand that He is the Savior of the world is just a small part of the, singular, me and you, is the tribulation one must go through and holding on.......Stand therefore. Isa. 45:23
I'm venting :dsunny:

Ronny to Micah:
Micah,it's good to vent sometimes. :-)  And pretty soon,I think I'm going to have to! :-) LoL

Well,thinking of three people who are close to me. I told the first,that I was no longer Calvinist in believe;but believed that God was going to save all,by way of Jesus Christ and the cross. And I told her,there was no Jesus Christ created hell, of eternal torment. She blew her top at that one. That was my next oldest sister. Then our oldest sister,she got to saying something to me the other night and I told her there was no hell of eternal torment and she got really upset at my saying that. Though she does like the way I believe better,than an older brother of ours,who is Calvinist. :-) Awhile back,he and Sis got into a disagreement and I chimed in and told Sis,the scripture she was referring to,simply taught that God was going to save everyone. Well,that got that older brother of mine upset and he let me know,that he disagreed. So what I have here,is some kinfolk who are Arminian and some who are Calvinist in belief. You got any kinfolk who are UR in belief,that you want to trade me?! :-) LoL

Oh and I went to my aunt's funeral this last Saturday. That was led by her son,a Baptist preacher. Not sure,how he believes? But Saturday or Sunday night,I was outside of one brother's home and got to talk some,to that cousin's wife. We talked about several things and I ended up telling her,that I now believed in UR. I don't know if she agrees with that or not;but it sure didn't phase her,when I told her that. She didn't get mad or upset or anything like that. :-)

[RonnyTX]

A lot of the Hell-proponents will also be staunch creationists, who like to go back to Genesis.  Remind them that the first chapter of Genesis states that God made the Heavens and the Earth.  The creation of Hell is not mentioned.  All else follows, or rather, does not follow, from that.

For yourself, remember that God's stated Purpose is for many to NOT have understanding of the secrets of the Kingdom.  Jesus said as much.

Ronny to Micah:
Micah,that is just what I was telling one fellow today,in another group. I simply asked him,if a hell of eternal torment was true,why didn't God warm Adam about such? And why was the creation of hell not mentioned,when it talks about God creating all things? Maybe,that will get him to think some? As for myself,I know I never,ever thought of that,until around 5 years ago. That when I first heard of UR. And my preacher cousins wife agreed with me the other night,when I said that there is just a lot of scripture,that we're taught in church,not to see. Well,using myself as an example,with me being brought up and taught in a Calvinist teaching/believing local church.  It just amazed me later on,how much I must of read over some verses,just in the book of John,that say Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the whole world,etc;but I never saw such,until I heard of UR and God showed me,that was true. And mercy,right after God saved me,when I was 16 years old,the desire of my heart was that every person,then have the same type of relationship with God. :-) God gave me that desire;but in church,some people taught me differently. Yeah,we can be so blind about somethings,when we're listening and believing some people,instead of listening to and believing God. But then,I think so many times,in this or that local church,we're taught to believe the lie,that listening to and always believing the preacher,is the same as listening to and believing God. So many taught to believe that way,including myself. Taught sin,taught to be idol worshippers,of some men.

[RonnyTX]

I know that for me, I was in hell when I believed that my Father may not actually love and save all of His children. It was a literal hell worrying about my loved ones and not knowing whether or not I could truly trust the Father that I had so loved and trusted in the beginning.

I would bet Micah, that the people you have been speaking with are also in hell. They just don't realize it.

Ronny to Lomarah:
I know how disturbed I was,when an uncle of mine passed on,when I was 17teen years old. He and my aunt,in what was said to be a cult Christian group. So I had been taught in church,that this uncle of mine went to hell. :-(  Before that,it was hard enough when a much loved cousin passed on,when I was 12yo and my Granny,when I was 15 or 16yo. But at least with them,I knew they were with God. So as much as I mourned their passing,at least I was taught,that they were in heaven. Then as I got older,I simply did my best,not to think about all of the people,that I was taught were going to hell. Well,I was taught in church,to be a Calvinist in belief and that God chose some few to go to heaven and the rest, simply went to hell. And there is no way,to believe that way and think on it much and still stay sane. So,as I got older, I simply tried to keep my mind off of such,as much as possible. And it simply astounded me,when I observed fellow Calvinists in belief and some acted so high and mighty. Acting as if they were so much better,than the great mass of humanity.  That was just something,that I could never understand,of another person like myself,who was also Calvinist in belief. It simply,made no sense to me?!

And Lomarah,some of those people you spea of,they are in the hell of selfrighteousness and don't even know it. I know I was there,until God brought me out of such. God did that for me,when I was born of God,at 16 years old. Then I was back to my Calvinistic teaching church,for the next year. And I didn't get as bad then,as I had been before;but I still fell back into thinking, that because of the local church I was in,that I was better than a lot of other people. Very strange thinking,for one who is a Calvinist in belief;but then I've seen other Calvinists,who are the same way. So in the year after God saved me,as I say, I fell back some,into my selfrighteousness. Then an older brother and I,we went back to the Baptist Bible camp,where God had saved me,the year before. And for 5 straight days,the youth teacher,he taught on nothing else;but the sin of selfrighteousness! :-( LoL  And after the first lesson,I thought surely he will teach on something else tomorrow! But no, he didn't! LoL Well,God certainly knew what I needed then,to bring me to repent on that sin in me! :-)  And on the last day,after the last sermon,I went up to the front of the church and told the preacher what I was coming up for. What God had called me on and caused me to repent of.  And I was sort of dumbfounded and a bit shocked that,that preacher wasn't interested in such,at all. Well,I wanted to tell people,what God had done for me;but didn't get the chance to,that time.

[RonnyTX]

Love that Rosered,for yes,wherever we are,God is there! :-) Well,we can't get away from God/Jesus Christ,we can't get away from Love! :-) And that true for everyone of us,from Adam on down! :-)

[RonnyTX]

I think when I quoted some in this thread,I got somethings mixed up and put some names wrong?! :-) Sorry about that and right now,I'm just to tired to go back and try to straighten such out! :-)

[eaglesway]

Personally, I am glad there is no literal hell, and that whatever temporal hell we may find ourselves in, we know that ultimately God will be all in all and all will be in God. I think I am comfortable with calling that heaven :o)

[marie glen]

I have been thinking lately that God (Yahweh) has allowed this belief in a 'hell' (as opposed to the grave or sheol where "all meet" and "there is no thought nor doing" etc) so that doers of great evil, like chopping off heads, holding grade school classes in the art of chopping heads, etc, not just horrible evils of our own time but all time, would have short lived absolute terror for a bit when they wake up in the great day of judgment (aka, surely review, that the smoke of man's doings and results of his world when it crumbles, will be written in stone - Job 19:23,24,29c). Perhaps harsh of me to think that way.. watching too much news lately :)

[eaglesway]

I think what they will feel when the eyes of Jesus look into their souls and the consuming fire of His love kindles upon their iniquities as the two-edged sword of His mouth pierces all their shields and divides spirit and soul, bone and marrow- making manifest the thoughts and intentions of their hearts, drawing every hidden thing up into the light- will be way worse than a moment of fear.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

....their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

[sheila]

...you're own iniquity will rebuke you........the man that received the one talent became afraid and hid it in the earth..

  ...when giving account of his actions unto the Lord...he said 'for I know that Thou art a harsh man and reapeth where

  you do not sow " unless a kernel of wheat fall into the earth and die,it can not bear fruit unto heaven.."  God the

  Father sowed peace and reconciliation unto all men,not counting their trespasses against them.....those that sow

  unto the flesh..reap corruption of the flesh[all men died due to sin in the flesh being condemned] all men live due to

  the sowing of spirit seed[the WORD OF GOD COME IN FLESH]sown in corruption[man's sinful flesh]raised in spirit

   at the harvest...the tares are removed and bundled for burning[take away all their sin] and the wheat gathered

  into the barn.   Many will come in my name='Lord,Lord did we not...in your name.." but He says.....I do NOT know you.

   false-christs false-prophets..thrown in the lake of fire....corrupted fleshly understandings that fall far short of the

  power and spirit of God....such things are unclean spirits/demonic and cleansed by fire of His word/spirit truth

   and this is how/when they will KNOW ME...WHEN I TAKE AWAY ALL THEIR SIN... 

   the perfection comes of the spirit of God.....we do not begin in spirit to finish in flesh....Love keeps not record of

  the offense......Love/Spirit of the Father is perfect...  If you love those who love you what reward will you get?

  NOW...do you think God loves the sinner/prodigals that do not love Him or even know Him? after having instructed

us to love those who do not love us? just maybe God will heap coals of fire on their head? Pour out His spirit on all flesh

Bless and curse not...we are instructed...then how do we figure man is cursed into the LOF? rather man is separated

from unclean demonic spirits and anti-christ spirits......that caused them to err  [tares/demons] stumbling blocks

that cause men to err..Woe due to the stumbling blocks!..woe to the world  'because of the 'things' that cause people

to sin.Rev 2;14-16  I will soon come and fight against them with the sword of my mouth[separate from sin/tares/demons

unclean spirits]  burn the tares/gather the wheat in the barn.

    He returned unto the Father to prepare a place for redeemed man....that we may always dwell with Him....

there is also a place prepared for the adversary[devil and his demons] under Christs heel the adversarys head/mind

..and thoughts[liars origin] desire to put to death/curse all men[man killer from beginning] will be crushed.  Erring

men's agreement with death/curse will be annulled..