John 3:17 (Might Be?)

[RonnyTX]

I've read some about this before;but am just now posting on it.

In John 3:17,some,but not all translations of the Bible read;For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;but that the world through him "might be" saved. I put quotes around the "might be" part, because, as best I understand it now,those words should not of been put in there,by Bible translators.

A link below,to one page. Have looked on that today and before as well. It shows the Greek word for saved, at the end of John 3:17;but if you didn't notice,you might easily think it was talking about the whole phrase,(might be saved.) But instead,the definition it gives,is only for the last word,saved.

http://biblehub.com/kjvs/john/3.htm

[Tom]

I think it should be "may" rather than "might" in the same sense as "that God may be all in all" (1 Corinthians 15:28). See the attachment.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[micah7:9]

Whether "might" or "may" there are those many, who will not believe and accept that the Lord "will" save all. (imo)

[eaglesway]

1510 eimí (the basic Greek verb which expresses being, i.e. "to be") – am, is. 1510 (eimí), and its counterparts, (properly) convey "straight-forward" being (existence, i.e. without explicit limits).


the Greek left no doubt about "may" or "might".

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-28.htm

[bushy]

EW, It might or may be my fault but I didn't quite understand for sure what you meant. I never liked the idea of maybe which means maybe not. Would you please clarify that? In John 12:47 there is no maybe.

"If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

[eaglesway]

Yea, sorry if I was unclear their, but, altho the English translators used may or might, the Greek was very definite that God is to be all in all.

[bushy]

Thanks for that. I thought that's what it was. I know for myself that he came to save the whole world but I like airtight arguments for other people that leave no wiggle room.

[Seth]

I also believe that the term "might" and "may" we're used to express a more definite meaning. "The farmer placed all the apples in the basket so that he might carry them back to the house." The confusion is in that words have more than one meaning.

The "archaic" meaning according to Websters is "to have the ability." The Old English reading the KJV would have understood it at way. Another way the word is used is indicating probability "I may or may not go to the store." That is not the definition being used as EW shows in his response. In the case of the scripture in the OP, the usage is that God sent his son to create a way for us to be saved from sin through his death and resurrection.

Even so, whether the word "might" is even the proper translation of "eimi" can be debated, but I don't even think the English people reading the KJV would have understood it as indicating probability. If they heard this phrase "God sent rain clouds so that it might rain," they would have taken it to mean that it would definitely rain, and that God sent the cloud to make that happen.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/may

[eaglesway]

I also believe that the term "might" and "may" we're used to express a more definite meaning. "The farmer placed all the apples in the basket so that he might carry them back to the house." The confusion is in that words have more than one meaning.

The "archaic" meaning according to Websters is "to have the ability." The Old English reading the KJV would have understood it at way. Another way the word is used is indicating probability "I may or may not go to the store." That is not the definition being used as EW shows in his response. In the case of the scripture in the OP, the usage is that God sent his son to create a way for us to be saved from sin through his death and resurrection.

Even so, whether the word "might" is even the proper translation of "eimi" can be debated, but I don't even think the English people reading the KJV would have understood it as indicating probability. If they heard this phrase "God sent rain clouds so that it might rain," they would have taken it to mean that it would definitely rain, and that God sent the cloud to make that happen.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/may

:thumbsup:

As usual, the context saves us also- with absolute clarity- reiterating several times the subjection of ALL THINGS...EVERY adversary so that when all things are subject, and all rule power and authority nullified, Jesus Himself will be subject to the One who subjected all things to Him- God who will then be all in all that was subject to Christ which, according to the context and about a dozen other witnesses in the OT and NT, is everything :o).

Sit Thou at my right hand, until I make all Thine enemies a footstool for Your feet. :o)

[Seth]

Exactly, plus Isaiah 46:10

declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

The "might" scriptures simply tell us how God sets everything up to do that. God gives exactly no wiggle room to wonder if he will or will not accomplish his purposes.

[eaglesway]

BTW, have been studying the whole subject of UR as  the fulfilment of the exaltation of Christ as inheritor of all things and there is such a wealth of material there. It is definitely a major pillar in the body of evidence for the salvation of all, which I view as the foundation doctrines of the resurrection of the dead(each in his own order) and eternal judgement (God's purpose for the ages) from the foundation doctrines of Hebrews 6:1-6

1 Cor 15: 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Acts 3:19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time

Ephesians 4:8-10
"When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men."

9 (Now this, "He ascended"—what does it mean but that He also first[ descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)

Colossians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Eph 1:19...according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Revelation 21:5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me,"Write, for these words are true and faithful."

And there are so many more.

The subjection of all things to Him is based in His subjection to the cross, where He overcame death and the grave. The measure of His love for all.

The subjection of all things to Him is a process of judgement that spills out into reconciliation for all, as mercy triumphs over judgement and death is swallowed up by immortality as every knee bows, and every tongue confesses in the subjection- a bowing of thankfulness and a confession unto the glory of God in Christ.

His exaltation over all things means the subjection of all things into love, because he is the radiance of the Father's glory and the exact representation His nature- and GOD IS LOVE.

Until one has been overcome by love, one has not bowed the knee.

[ed]

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/mightsave.htm

[Seth]

I always admired Gary's articles because I sense the passion in them.

[micah7:9]

Mat 13:35  that it might be fulfilled that was spoken through the prophet, saying, `I will open in similes my mouth, I will utter things having been hidden from the foundation of the world.'

Just my opinion but the "might's" are pretty much will. :2c:

[WhiteWings]

I  checked that verse and the word 'might' in several verses (including OT).
The conclusion is that lots of words are added out of nowhere.

"Might be saved" reads "saved" in Greek. Just that. One word.

"But that saved the kosmos through Him" a unaltered direct translation.

"might be saved" is from this Greek word: σώζω
Even Strong doesn't add anything like might/possible etc.

John 3:17American Standard Version (ASV)

17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.

John 3:17New International Version (NIV)
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

No might in NIV.
Most translations are old. I'm wondering what the exact definition of 'might' was for the KJV translators in 1611.
Take the verse below. Might sounds very much as a fact. Not a possibility.
Egyptians don't eat with Jews. Period. That's how I read it.

Gen 43:32 (AKJV)
32 And they set on for him by himself, and for them by themselves, and for the Egyptians, which did eat with him, by themselves: because the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination to the Egyptians.





σώζω
sōzō
Thayer Definition:
1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
1a) one (from injury or peril)
1a1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
1b1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
1b) to save in the technical biblical sense
1b1) negatively
1b1a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
1b1b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe")
Citing in TDNT: 7:965, 1132

[RonnyTX]

Thank y'all,for your replies. :-)  Been meaning to get more back into this;but a lot of things going on lately,that have took up much of my time. Like doing some long shopping trips,with my oldest Sis! (ha) My,she is 9 years older than me;but when it comes to walking around so many stores,I think she can sure outdo me! :-) LoL

But getting back to John  3:17. One simple way I thought it should be translated is;"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;but that the world through him saved." The way I first saw it and still see it,is that this verse is cut and dried,as to who Jesus Christ and the cross saves. That is,every last one of us,from Adam on down. :-)

Lately,I also and some how got into another group,that was really interesting to me. A lady there,she said she didn't understand how some Christians couldn't believe in hell?  When I wrote back to here,I said that's because hell,isn't in the Bible. Then another guy posted back to me,wanting me to do some reading of two other fellas. Seems those two, believe in annihilation. That is,when all is said and done,they simply believe God is going to completely destroy,a lot of people. Well,I don't agree with that belief;but at least it's somewhat better,than the one that holds that God is going to torment some people,forever. But what I still can't grasp,is how anyone could believe our heavenly Parent,could simply wipe out forever,a lot of His children? That makes no sense to me,since God is love. :-) Too,I think about what any sane person would think,if an earthly parent was to simply wipe out one or more or their children,simply because those wouldn't do just as they wanted! I would simply think,that such a person was as mean as the devil and or out of their mind! For no loving earthly parent,could do such. Yet here I'm reading up on some people,who do believe,that our heavenly Parent will do such. Just makes no sense to me!