a better explanation for some of Jesus' parables

[anti_nietzsche]

Good evening,

I've wanted to start a discussion on some of Jesus' parables, particularly those of the 10 talents, the one of the narrow gate, and the one of Lazarus and the rich man. Up to now I have always read them to have to do with God and His kingdom, but after some more thought on the subject I've changed my mind.

I think what Jesus here speaks about actually is the state of the society at the time, with a focus on Judea, but it was the same everywhere really. One of the things that made the average people's life really hard was the practice of usury. Charging rates of interest of between 20 and 40% were common. Now God precisely forbade charging interest in the mosaic laws, but apparently the rich in Judea did not obey that rule. So Jesus uses a parable to describe how the Jews were really thinking. A jewish master gave out 10 talents of silver to 10 servants. The one who made 5 more from 1 talent, was given 5 cities to govern. The one who made 3 more from 1 talent, was given 3 cities. The one who only hid his 1 talent and did not produce increase, got his talent taken away because he should have brought it to the bank where it would have gained at least some increase. This is pure usury. It describes a situation in which those who are rich, become even more rich, and those who have little, are robbed of what little they have. This cannot possibly refer to God as the giver of the talents, because God forbids charging interest. And the kingdom of God is not about usury either, it is instead like a tree where even the birds of Heaven find shelter.

The one with the narrow gate can be interpreted similarly. Jesus does not place on us new rules. We know from Paul and from the other writers that Jesus was not one of those Rabbis that invent rules and regulations or gather them from the bible. We have but one rule from Jesus really, to love each other like Jesus Himself loves us. So Jesus does not make the gate narrow. Believe in Jesus and love every human - that is all that is asked from us. This is by no means narrow. Then the parable goes on and speaks about those people that were the owners of the house. They ate and drank with them all, ie they lived together with the ordinary people, and they taught in the streets. But if you came too late to them, they were so arrogant to say they don't even know you, they would not give you food or anything else. If God were to say He does not know you, He would lie, because God knows us all, and fully at that. It is a cornerstone of our theology to believe that God knows us fully. And Jesus says at other places that He would not push away absolutely ANYONE who comes to Him.

Then there is the famous parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. I think this parable does not speak about the afterlife at all. Instead it describes 2 well known types of Jews, the poor Lazarus and the rich Man. The dogs are the city guard and clerks and such, they lick the sores of Lazarus and want to profit from him. But Lazarus has faith, He is in Abraham's Bosom. He does not have the riches of the world, but He has the consolation of God. The rich man may have the good of the world, but he does not have consolation from God about death. Abraham says to him, I cannot help you, you believe in Moses and eye for an eye, either you have it good here and bad after death, or you have it bad here and good after death. So what's the point, the rich people say, let us eat and drink and be merry and deny the resurrection. And the poor say, let us not do anything different and not change things so that we are miserable but can be happy after death. And none from the poor and faithful go to the rich, and none of the rich and fearful come to the poor. So nothing gets changed at all. This was a depiction of what was going on in the time. There was no real talking between the rich and the poor. The poor had their beliefs and the rich had theirs. This must be awful for Jesus as He is the Savior of the world, not the Savior of only either the rich or the poor. At other places in scripture Jesus shows love to the rich, like to the rich young man who has kept the 10 commandments since his birth and goes away in sadness when Jesus asks him to give his riches to the poor.

So I think this is the right way to see the parables, of which many do not refer to the kingdom of God but to the kingdom of men.

Any thoughts?

[eaglesway]

12"So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

13"Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Another perspective


Jesus just told us what the narrow gate is in verse 12.........So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

It is easy to debate doctrine and make a public show or worship in giant edifices built upon systematic theology and tradition.

It is hard to love the Lord with all our heart and love our neighbor as ourselves.

As you said, "Jesus doesnt make new rules.....he gives us one rule".

Yes, He gives that rule in verse 12, and it is a hard way to go, it is the way of the cross, but if we "take His yoke upon us" He makes it easy and the burden light, because closeness to our Lord is like the wind blowing through the wings of our spirit or the sun shine in our souls.

Many are on the wide religious/theological/philosophical  road, and they break up on the rocks, because there is no grace in that way, no life.

Life is in the narrow way. Just one commandment.

"A new commandment I give to you. Love one another"

"Love fulfills the law because love does no ill to its neighbor".

"No greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his friends."

[rosered]

I think what Jesus here speaks about actually is the state of the society at the time, with a focus on Judea, but it was the same everywhere really. One of the things that made the average people's life really hard was the practice of usury. Charging rates of interest of between 20 and 40% were common. Now God precisely forbade charging interest in the mosaic laws, but apparently the rich in Judea did not obey that rule. So Jesus uses a parable to describe how the Jews were really thinking. A jewish master gave out 10 talents of silver to 10 servants. The one who made 5 more from 1 talent, was given 5 cities to govern. The one who made 3 more from 1 talent, was given 3 cities. The one who only hid his 1 talent and did not produce increase, got his talent taken away because he should have brought it to the bank where it would have gained at least some increase. This is pure usury. It describes a situation in which those who are rich, become even more rich, and those who have little, are robbed of what little they have. This cannot possibly refer to God as the giver of the talents, because God forbids charging interest. And the kingdom of God is not about usury either, it is instead like a tree where even the birds of Heaven find shelter.

I appreciate your sharing this      Anti-nietzsche I believe they are parallel      the unrighteous mammon    is the riches of this world   
showing the robber and thieves   spirit within  mankind /covetousness
and their unfaithfulness      in the worldly    things  , this is a test to prove if you are faithful   in the unrighteous  things  , you will be faithful in the true riches  in the Spiritual  things
 
there is a righteous mammon /riches  from Jesus Christ    and this is the increase of God  , and to not rob  God of His glory     in the earth   to me
  other may shed more light  on the subject

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:   awesome Eagleway!!

 
and Anti-



I love it you noted its the l  written law  in the effect for the time 
  verses the  Living law  in the hearts of men [to come ]  and is Now

Knowing Knowledge puffs up  , what if   a man  with knowledge says  you cannot   enter   Gods Kingdom
  But Jesus proved   that knowledge without  LOVE     was pointless   and useless and  kept everyone , I DO MEAN EVERYONE   , poor and needy and  some  self righteous    , no one was going in   this way! 

   trying to force people to obey    the written law by them      laws  of custom was not going to  work

[Seth]

God expressly forbade Jews to consume blood. But Jesus said "you must drink my blood and eat my flesh." About the parable of the talents, I think there is a link between the parable and something Peter said:

2 Peter 1
3His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

[anti_nietzsche]

When Jesus tells people to eat his flesh and drink his blood, he is not speaking about regular meals. It's instead about the eucharist, the human taking up God's body in themselves in order to get strengthened. The mosaic commandment not to drink blood is more of a rule of reverence towards life, because it was held that life is in the blood. But in Jesus' perspective life is in the spirit, in the word of God, in Jesus' spiritual body that we eat as bread and wine, not as literal flesh and blood.

The rule to love one another, is not a rule of hardship and toil. It is instead a simple rule that even a child can recognize and obey. Be kind to other people, be a friend to your neighbor, don't do evil things. If you free that rule from the mosaic baggage, you have the easy yoke. If you are kind to someone, chances are they will be kind to you. Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. This is not the narrow gate of the pharisees, it is the broad way of daylight that leads to the destruction of the phariseic way.

[Seth]

I agree that the blood is not literal. But it signify something spiritual. In the same way I could see that although God might forbid taking interest, if the talents or the coins have nothing to do with actual money but adding love to our faith, like Peter says, then it would seem entirely reasonable to me that the master represents God himself. in that way, it wouldn't be a contradiction because the parable has nothing to do with money, like the blood doesn't have to do with literal blood.

when Jesus says to strive to enter the narrow gate, again I don't think he's adding extra rules and regulations, I think he's talking about love and how that love requires sacrifice of self which is not easy. If it were easy everyone would do it, and that is what I think makes the opposite to be a wide road that leads to destruction.

[micah7:9]

Mar 4:10 And when He came to be in seclusion, those about Him, together with the twelve, asked Him about the parables."
Mar 4:11 And He said to them, "To you the secret of the kingdom of God has been given, yet to those outside, all is occurring in parables,
Mar 4:12 that, observing, they may be observing and may not be perceiving, and hearing, they may be hearing and not be understanding, lest at some time they should be turning about, and they may be pardoned the penalties of their sins."
Mar 4:13 And He is saying to them, "Have you not perceived this parable? And how will you know all parables?

[Seth]

 :thumbsup: