Luke 13:22-27

[UniversalSceptic]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

[Seth]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

I think the reference to "taught in our streets" indicates that he is talking about the forthcoming judgment upon Israel that they would be blinded and cut off from receiving the Spirit and being saved from sin. I used to believe it had to do with 70AD, but I believe a judgment upon Israel occurred well before that moment when the majority were blinded by God and cut off of the blessing of the Spirit, in order to bring the Gentiles in.

So, they weren't saved from sin in this life but that does not mean they will never be saved.

[UniversalSceptic]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

I think the reference to "taught in our streets" indicates that he is talking about the forthcoming judgment upon Israel that they would be blinded and cut off from receiving the Spirit and being saved from sin. I used to believe it had to do with 70AD, but I believe a judgment upon Israel occurred well before that moment when the majority were blinded by God and cut off of the blessing of the Spirit, in order to bring the Gentiles in.

So, they weren't saved from sin in this life but that does not mean they will never be saved.

No and he used that verse to counter Ephesians 1 10-11. He takes it in the literal sense of Jesus literally saying that these people are not welcome into the Kingdom of God.

[Seth]

Think of it similarly to the judgment of Babylon. God turned them over to Babylon for worshipping idols for 70 years. So for that amount of time, the door was locked shut, but God promised it would result in their repentance. Israel is shut out from the kingdom for a while, which Paul says the kingdom is peace and righteousness in the Holy Spirit. Being blinded to the faith, they cannot enter that peace. But nothing in that scripture says they they will never be saved. In face Romans 11 is clear that they will.

[UniversalSceptic]

Think of it similarly to the judgment of Babylon. God turned them over to Babylon for worshipping idols for 70 years. So for that amount of time, the door was locked shut, but God promised it would result in their repentance. Israel is shut out from the kingdom for a while, which Paul says the kingdom is peace and righteousness in the Holy Spirit. Being blinded to the faith, they cannot enter that peace. But nothing in that scripture says they they will never be saved. In face Romans 11 is clear that they will.

I'll read Romans 11, but I challenged this person to tell me what God's will means to him, and him knowing the end from the beginning. He told me that God saw there fate before they were born, but they can change there fate, which I don't understand how this person can still say God knows the end from the beginning. I ask him to prove it because it seems like a major leap. Are there any verses that can "prove" his assertion?

[eaglesway]

I really dont find it necessary to do any scriptural calisthenics.

They won't be welcome.

They will go into the lake of fire where the fire and brimstone(theon/godfire) will torment them in the presence of God and His holy angels......


Until they repent, bow the knee, and give glory to God for the Lordship of Jesus.

[UniversalSceptic]

Fair enough. It's just so frustrating to see people twist scriptures like this. Claiming that a person can change the fate that God preordained them for is just so rediculous and denies he is in control.

Edit: Well his response was not what I expected. Of course, he says Ephesians 1:10-11 is talking about after the tribulation and that the thousand years is proof that not all will be saved. I just concede defeat. He does seem sincere though in that he is trying of help me. He always said sorry when he had to deliver some harsh "truths". He seemed sad that he had to crush who I thought God was. I often wonder how can someone who is sincere can be okay with a doctrine like Hell. He of course didn't answer my question about his claim that we can change the fate God saw for us.

[Tom]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

First of all, bro, I'd say you should consider it an honor to be called a heretic because that just means you don't conform to the false doctrine of the church that doesn't conform to the word of God, and secondly, that scripture does not "prove not all will be saved." I believe the parable refers to the gates of the kingdom being wide open to Israel making it easy to enter by repentance and baptism up to the time when the gates were closed. I don't think this refers to the evangel of our salvation in grace through faith, and it doesn't cancel what scripture says about God being the savior of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10).

[UniversalSceptic]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

First of all, bro, I'd say you should consider it an honor to be called a heretic because that just means you don't conform to the false doctrine of the church that doesn't conform to the word of God, and secondly, that scripture does not "prove not all will be saved." I believe the parable refers to the gates of the kingdom being wide open to Israel making it easy to enter by repentance and baptism up to the time when the gates were closed. I don't think this refers to the evangel of our salvation in grace through faith, and it doesn't cancel what scripture says about God being the savior of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10).

I am somewhat troubled by the fact that he seems sincere. When I told him that he has given me a lot to think about it, he responded that he was sorry and that he was just trying to help. His sincerity is what has kind of thrown me. I don't understand how someone can believe this and be so sincere too

[WhiteWings]

The more I learn, the more I see this is a hopeless fight.
At first it just looked like misunderstandings based on wrong translations.
That's certainly so, but another major problem is that most Christians don't even (care to) know the Hebraic meaning of salvation, kingdom and faith. And without that knowledge the interpretation of a parable will be that of a Greek philosopher. Not of Jewish rabbi Jesus.

[rosered]

The more I learn, the more I see this is a hopeless fight.
At first it just looked like misunderstandings based on wrong translations.
That's certainly so, but another major problem is that most Christians don't even (care to) know the Hebraic meaning of salvation, kingdom and faith. And without that knowledge the interpretation of a parable will be that of a Greek philosopher. Not of Jewish rabbi Jesus.

  Brother Tony
  I think its more about Love being the universal     teaching  and that is from the Holy Spirit /Life     within us

They can call themselves Christians all they   want    , but if they do not have the Love of God  in them  , they are not of Him 
  and of course   he will say away from me you workers of iniquity    I dont know you

   where do those kind go   than ?   to the fire for refining , those trials will come    and they will die  in them     
  in these sense of this I have seen so many Christians  try to live by the law and die to them instead         
  twice   dead
  dead in sin and  dead to the law
  when you get this bad     its like Jude     

  that man of sin is exposed  , wont be long till Jesus comes to them , in their darkest hour    when they least  expect Him


I was delivered under the same  shame and   death

   when I did not know God I was in sin empty and void  all darkness  loomed

   when the Law  come it killed me
  Just like Paul   

  and when Christ come , Just like  Saul / Paul      the change was    apparent          was blind but  now we see Jesus and the grace of God abounds

  Gods timing and He never fails  any one of us ever   HIS WRATH IS BUT FOR A MOMENT    BUT   HIS MERCY ENDURES FOREVER   

[Tom]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

First of all, bro, I'd say you should consider it an honor to be called a heretic because that just means you don't conform to the false doctrine of the church that doesn't conform to the word of God, and secondly, that scripture does not "prove not all will be saved." I believe the parable refers to the gates of the kingdom being wide open to Israel making it easy to enter by repentance and baptism up to the time when the gates were closed. I don't think this refers to the evangel of our salvation in grace through faith, and it doesn't cancel what scripture says about God being the savior of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10).

I am somewhat troubled by the fact that he seems sincere. When I told him that he has given me a lot to think about it, he responded that he was sorry and that he was just trying to help. His sincerity is what has kind of thrown me. I don't understand how someone can believe this and be so sincere too

I think someone can be sincere about a belief and still be mistaken.

[UniversalSceptic]

The more I learn, the more I see this is a hopeless fight.
At first it just looked like misunderstandings based on wrong translations.
That's certainly so, but another major problem is that most Christians don't even (care to) know the Hebraic meaning of salvation, kingdom and faith. And without that knowledge the interpretation of a parable will be that of a Greek philosopher. Not of Jewish rabbi Jesus.

No, you're right. He believes in eternal torment and nothing will sway him.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

First of all, bro, I'd say you should consider it an honor to be called a heretic because that just means you don't conform to the false doctrine of the church that doesn't conform to the word of God, and secondly, that scripture does not "prove not all will be saved." I believe the parable refers to the gates of the kingdom being wide open to Israel making it easy to enter by repentance and baptism up to the time when the gates were closed. I don't think this refers to the evangel of our salvation in grace through faith, and it doesn't cancel what scripture says about God being the savior of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10).

I am somewhat troubled by the fact that he seems sincere. When I told him that he has given me a lot to think about it, he responded that he was sorry and that he was just trying to help. His sincerity is what has kind of thrown me. I don't understand how someone can believe this and be so sincere too

I think someone can be sincere about a belief and still be mistaken.

Very true, and it's so easy to condemn others when a person isn't in their shoes or lived the life they did.

[Tom]

That's why we shouldn't judge others.

[RonnyTX]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

First of all, bro, I'd say you should consider it an honor to be called a heretic because that just means you don't conform to the false doctrine of the church that doesn't conform to the word of God, and secondly, that scripture does not "prove not all will be saved." I believe the parable refers to the gates of the kingdom being wide open to Israel making it easy to enter by repentance and baptism up to the time when the gates were closed. I don't think this refers to the evangel of our salvation in grace through faith, and it doesn't cancel what scripture says about God being the savior of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10).

US:
I am somewhat troubled by the fact that he seems sincere. When I told him that he has given me a lot to think about it, he responded that he was sorry and that he was just trying to help. His sincerity is what has kind of thrown me. I don't understand how someone can believe this and be so sincere too

Ronny to US:
It's perfectly possible,to be sincere and be completely wrong, on any number of things. I know that for a fact, because I completely and sincerely believed what I was raised up in and taught in the local church. Yet I was wrong about so much,because in so much,I was listening to and believing some people,instead of simply listening to and believing God. Yet in all of that,I completely believed,that I was holding true to and believing truths,that were straight from God.

[dajomaco]

So after being branded a heretic, the accuser sent this to prove NOT all will be saved.

Luke 13:22-27
Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.' " But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.' "Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.' "But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

First of all, bro, I'd say you should consider it an honor to be called a heretic because that just means you don't conform to the false doctrine of the church that doesn't conform to the word of God, and secondly, that scripture does not "prove not all will be saved." I believe the parable refers to the gates of the kingdom being wide open to Israel making it easy to enter by repentance and baptism up to the time when the gates were closed. I don't think this refers to the evangel of our salvation in grace through faith, and it doesn't cancel what scripture says about God being the savior of all mankind (1 Timothy 4:10).

I am somewhat troubled by the fact that he seems sincere. When I told him that he has given me a lot to think about it, he responded that he was sorry and that he was just trying to help. His sincerity is what has kind of thrown me. I don't understand how someone can believe this and be so sincere too

Jesus face to face asked Peter three times ,do you love me, do you love me,do you love me.
John 21 ;15,17
Do you Love this Guy. You can feed him.

[eaglesway]

Every religionist has to believe he is trying to help. Otherwise how could they justify their actions?

Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse deceiving and being deceived.

[micah7:9]

Every religionist has to believe he is trying to help. Otherwise how could they justify their actions?

Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse deceiving and being deceived.

:iagree: and as well with WW....
"The more I learn, the more I see this is a hopeless fight.
At first it just looked like misunderstandings based on wrong translations.
That's certainly so, but another major problem is that most Christians don't even (care to) know the Hebraic meaning of salvation, kingdom and faith. And without that knowledge the interpretation of a parable will be that of a Greek philosopher. Not of Jewish rabbi Jesus."

[rosered]

Every religionist has to believe he is trying to help. Otherwise how could they justify their actions?

Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse deceiving and being deceived.

:iagree: and as well with WW....
"The more I learn, the more I see this is a hopeless fight.
At first it just looked like misunderstandings based on wrong translations.
That's certainly so, but another major problem is that most Christians don't even (care to) know the Hebraic meaning of salvation, kingdom and faith. And without that knowledge the interpretation of a parable will be that of a Greek philosopher. Not of Jewish rabbi Jesus."

  I have discovered  we are to judge nothing before its time and  that   ''  all things''   does mean all things are for the Glory of God     ,

   the patience of the holy ones    wait on the Lord   and   the power of the Knowledge/Light  and love brought with Him     does change the course  of many things not possible with mankind    :flowerred:   

     having faith in Gods will being done     in the Moving of His Spirit     moves mountains out of way   that a mere human will find hard to even  walk / pass over






  1Corinth 4 4For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted;


but the one who examines me is the Lord.

5Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts;


and then each man's praise will come to him from God.

[eaglesway]

 :goodpost:

[RonnyTX]

The more I learn, the more I see this is a hopeless fight.
At first it just looked like misunderstandings based on wrong translations.
That's certainly so, but another major problem is that most Christians don't even (care to) know the Hebraic meaning of salvation, kingdom and faith. And without that knowledge the interpretation of a parable will be that of a Greek philosopher. Not of Jewish rabbi Jesus.

US to Whitewings:
No, you're right. He believes in eternal torment and nothing will sway him.

Ronny to US:
Well,there is that One thing,God,that will get ahold of him one day and that will sway him! :-)

[anti_nietzsche]

I think it's possible that this passage from Luke does not refer to Jesus but to those among the Jews who were in charge at the time. They made things narrow, not Jesus. They ate and drank with them all and taught in the streets. Jesus said that he would not push away ANYONE who comes to him as he would be humble and tender in heart. It's similar to the parable of the 10 talents. This is describing usury and God does not take kindly to that. The prophets ALWAYS talked in favor of the poor, of the downtrodden, of the marginalized, persecuted and weak. The parables Jesus used were fashioned to point at the rich and at the rulers of the time, both the jewish ones and the romans. Jesus does not shove away anyone who knocks at the door, and He does not lie saying He does not know them because God always knows everyone. But the jewish rabbis of the time were not so, they easily disowned someone for this or that transgression of their law. Not so Jesus, for whom the law was made for men, not men for the law. (Not saying jewish rabbis still do this, it was something back in the day, those times are over for Judaism in this time.)

[rosered]

I think it's possible that this passage from Luke does not refer to Jesus but to those among the Jews who were in charge at the time. They made things narrow, not Jesus. They ate and drank with them all and taught in the streets. Jesus said that he would not push away ANYONE who comes to him as he would be humble and tender in heart. It's similar to the parable of the 10 talents. This is describing usury and God does not take kindly to that. The prophets ALWAYS talked in favor of the poor, of the downtrodden, of the marginalized, persecuted and weak. The parables Jesus used were fashioned to point at the rich and at the rulers of the time, both the jewish ones and the romans. Jesus does not shove away anyone who knocks at the door, and He does not lie saying He does not know them because God always knows everyone. But the jewish rabbis of the time were not so, they easily disowned someone for this or that transgression of their law. Not so Jesus, for whom the law was made for men, not men for the law. (Not saying jewish rabbis still do this, it was something back in the day, those times are over for Judaism in this time.)

  Yes I love what you said   anti-N  !!    heaven    was open to all !!  Luke 3  now makes sense as to Why Jesus was Baptized    by John the Baptist , to   FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS     !!   


   21Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."  HEAR HIM !

This is   the same things as Hearing what the Spirit is saying though Him   "come "    !!
Jesus never spoke on His own authority only His Father the TRUE AND LIVING GOD

  HE come to give Life ,, an abundant life now ! not after the end of mortality      /death of the literal  flesh