An excerpt from an article that caught my eye

Started by UniversalSceptic, October 06, 2014, 04:34:59 PM

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UniversalSceptic

The ancient Greeks, however, applied the word to the region of the wicked dead. Since there is no indication that Peter assigns an extraordinary meaning to the term, it is reasonable to conclude that it denotes that area of Hades in which both rebel men and angels are punished preliminary to the day of judgment.

The full article is here

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/406-use-of-hell-in-the-new-testament-the

Now, my two cents is that this person is adding on more than what needs to be added on. It's like this that claim that when God says all, he means all kinds of people, but the bible doesn't make the distinction; others make that distinction. It's amazing and somewhat disturbing how people will still use the Greek to push that Hell is real and eternal. It becomes troubling and I always have to wonder if I am wrong because I have yet to be fully secured in what I believe in.

Lazarus Short

It is like I have said more than once, the eternal torment in hell crowd have no problem with going back to ancient Greek (read:  pagan) beliefs to prop up their theology.  The roots of Hell lie in paganism, not in the Word of God.  Hell would dissolve before your eyes if you really get it through and through that the dead are dead, not alive in Hell.  That is based on the concept of the immortality of the soul, a pagan Greek concept.
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

YHVH = Behold the Nail, Behold the Hand = Jesus

UniversalSceptic

Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 06, 2014, 04:48:21 PM
It is like I have said more than once, the eternal torment in hell crowd have no problem with going back to ancient Greek (read:  pagan) beliefs to prop up their theology.  The roots of Hell lie in paganism, not in the Word of God.  Hell would dissolve before your eyes if you really get it through and through that the dead are dead, not alive in Hell.  That is based on the concept of the immortality of the soul, a pagan Greek concept.
I was mainly referring to the rest of this article. I chose this particular verse because it really caught my eye and stood out more than the rest. The rest of the article is the same old tired argument about Gehenna referring to an actual Hell and aionios actually meaning eternal, completing. Over looking the fact that Hell is mostly mentioned in the Gospel, but only mentioned twice in the epistles.

micah7:9

Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 06, 2014, 04:48:21 PM
It is like I have said more than once, the eternal torment in hell crowd have no problem with going back to ancient Greek (read:  pagan) beliefs to prop up their theology.  The roots of Hell lie in paganism, not in the Word of God.  Hell would dissolve before your eyes if you really get it through and through that the dead are dead, not alive in Hell.  That is based on the concept of the immortality of the soul, a pagan Greek concept.

:thumbsup: :happyclap:

Lazarus Short

The props of Hell (pagan myth, mistranslation, theo-illogical invention, and outright fiction (as Dante and Milton))are not very strong.  That is the very reason preachers must pump it up with bombastic oratory.  On the other hand, the case for UR is solid, though the ET crowd will never, ever admit it.  Oh, I suppose at the consummation of the ages, when the last members of "all" come out of the Lake of Fire, they might admit that they could have been wrong [sarcasm].
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

YHVH = Behold the Nail, Behold the Hand = Jesus

joeteekay

Good point.  :thumbsup:
And the word hell is not found in scriptures, only in translations
Translated from Gehenna, Sheol, hades and Tartaros.
3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Seth

Quote from: UniversalSceptic on October 06, 2014, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Lazarus Short on October 06, 2014, 04:48:21 PM
It is like I have said more than once, the eternal torment in hell crowd have no problem with going back to ancient Greek (read:  pagan) beliefs to prop up their theology.  The roots of Hell lie in paganism, not in the Word of God.  Hell would dissolve before your eyes if you really get it through and through that the dead are dead, not alive in Hell.  That is based on the concept of the immortality of the soul, a pagan Greek concept.
I was mainly referring to the rest of this article. I chose this particular verse because it really caught my eye and stood out more than the rest. The rest of the article is the same old tired argument about Gehenna referring to an actual Hell and aionios actually meaning eternal, completing. Over looking the fact that Hell is mostly mentioned in the Gospel, but only mentioned twice in the epistles.

Yeah, and not only is it only mentioned twice but according to  two separate words gehenna and tartarus. And the instance that James uses it is for symbolism involving sin, and Peter's use pertains to angels not people.

Concerning hades, check out 1 Cor 15:55 how it was translated as "Grave" in the KJV.

micah7:9

I don't know for sure but "tartarus" is just a different description for "hades" as though deeper down would make them more unseen. My opinion and  :2c:

Seth

Yes that's true but that only applies to angels not people.

Tom

#9
Quote from: UniversalSceptic on October 06, 2014, 04:34:59 PM
The ancient Greeks, however, applied the word to the region of the wicked dead. Since there is no indication that Peter assigns an extraordinary meaning to the term, it is reasonable to conclude that it denotes that area of Hades in which both rebel men and angels are punished preliminary to the day of judgment.

The full article is here

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/406-use-of-hell-in-the-new-testament-the

Now, my two cents is that this person is adding on more than what needs to be added on. It's like this that claim that when God says all, he means all kinds of people, but the bible doesn't make the distinction; others make that distinction. It's amazing and somewhat disturbing how people will still use the Greek to push that Hell is real and eternal. It becomes troubling and I always have to wonder if I am wrong because I have yet to be fully secured in what I believe in.

Regarding the article in the link, I think "the spirit sphere will surrender the soul" is a curious statement. I think, when a person dies, the body returns to the soil; the soul returns to the unseen state; and the spirit returns to God. I think another statement, "Hades, a place of torment and anguish" as quoted from the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, has misled a lot of people into thinking the dead are alive, but that's nonsense as Laz has pointed out. That parable is simply an example of Christ using the false teachings of the Pharisees against them. I think the article is correct in stating, "when Christ died, while his body was resting in Joseph's tomb, his soul was in Hades." I think some folks don't believe Christ really died. I disagree with the following statement because the lake of fire is obviously confused with Gehenna, "Homer, the Greek poet, spoke of "dark Tartarus . . . the deepest pit" (Iliad, 8.13). Here, it is used of the abode of evil angels prior to their banishment to Gehenna, their ultimate destiny (cf. Mt. 25:41)." And this is obviously more non-sense about the immortality of the soul, "it is reasonable to conclude that it denotes that area of Hades in which both rebel men and angels are punished preliminary to the day of judgment," and this " "the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment." The dead are dead, as unnecessary as it seems to have say, but the philosophy of Plato adopted by the church that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden is what church folks believe about death. That is immortality of the soul. Scripture says the soul dies (Ezekiel 18:4,20), and the dead are not conscious to experience torment in fire at all let alone forever (Ecclesiastes 9:5). And this statement is maybe the craziest of all, "The final and eternal abode of those who die apart from God is Gehenna." Gehenna is a ravine, a real geographical location, just outside the city walls of Jerusalem where the dead bodies of executed criminals were burned in the past and will be again in the future (Isaiah 66:23,24). It's no wonder atheists mock believers, and many of those who are lost avoid Christianity. The church has so distorted the meaning of the Greek "hades" that the loving God who will eventually reconcile all and be all in all is seen by most in the world as a vindictive sadistic monster who created the majority of humanity specifically to be tortured alive in fire forever. That is not based on innocent human errors in the translation of scripture but forgery with the intentional mistranslation of scripture, torture, and burning alive of anybody who sought the truth in scripture themselves. I think the systematized deception perpetrated by the church is the greatest evil on the planet and the most effective accomplishment of Satan that operates today to prevent people from experiencing the love of God and the peace that gives to every living soul who knows the truth. Many people in the world now are very blessed to be able to access the truth in an accurate translation of scripture without being persecuted and killed like the church is guilty of doing in the past. I don't see how anybody can continue to belong to an organization like that once they've learned its history and begun to realize the deception that is still being perpetuated today, and it's all just to maintain the worldly power of the church at the expense of a lot of people hungering for the truth and in need of refuge from this wicked eon. The church is not the ecclesia, the body of Christ, spoken of in scripture. It is Satan's counterfeit.

"For such are false apostles, fraudulent workers, being transfigured into apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is being transfigured into a messenger of light. It is no great thing, then, if his servants also are being transfigured as dispensers of righteousness--whose consummation shall be according to their acts." (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

But despite this worldwide evil being propagated by the church throughout history, God is so loving and merciful that even those who have participated in it will be saved from death and reconciled with God at the consummation of the eons because God is not really like he has been slanderously portrayed by the church. I suggest you find a better source of information than this "Christian Courier" that has published the article you used as a reference in this post. The folks on this website don't agree on everything, but I think most agree that God will eventually save all mankind from death; reconcile all on earth and in the heavens; and be all in all. I say thank God for that, and I try to share the consolation of that truth of scripture with folks instead of distorted theology of the church which offers nothing but fear based on a lie.   

jbertonbounds

Quote from: Tom on October 06, 2014, 09:16:47 PM
The church is not the ecclesia, the body of Christ, spoken of in scripture. It is Satan's counterfeit.

Assuming you mean "the [organized modern] church is not the ecclesia"  :thumbsup:

Lazarus Short

Well said, Tom!  :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
Socrates taught Plato.  Plato taught Aristotle.  Aristotle tutored the son of Philip of Macedon.  This boy grew up to become Alexander the Great, largely by slaughtering a lot of people.  That's philosophy.

Jesus spoke the Truth.  He blessed the poor.  He healed the sick.  He even raised the dead.  He died on a cross for us, lived again, and came back long enough to tell us to love one another.  That's religion.

YHVH = Behold the Nail, Behold the Hand = Jesus