Am I doing right or wrong.

[WhiteWings]

Currently someone is under severe judgement from God because that person did something God directly told that person not to do.
While I didn't tell the person to disobey God, I surely triggered that event. I did that very wrong for sure so that's not what my question is about. Before I start I must add the past of the person makes it more 'logical' the wrong action was taken.

When it came to my attention I started to fast and ask God to show His mercy.
a] Am I doing good because I ask for compassion for others. I think one of Jesus' main teachig was about doing that very same things. He even begged for forgivenes for those who crucified Him. But that forgiveness was asked for sins against Himself. The person I'm talking about disobeyed th Father directly. Neverteless compassion and forgivenes was high on Jesus' agenda. The person is not able to ask for forgiveness.

b] I'm insulting the Father because in a way I'm saying: "Reverse Your judgement because it's way to harsh."

To make things clear I'm not fasting to receive mercy for my own part in this.


I can't give details due to privacy reasons, so I give a fictive example.

A man was very poor and often stole food. God stepped in and gave that man a decent job so he could buy as much food as needed. God told that person in  a vision He would put that person in jail for 20 years if he would steal food again.

My part in this is that I stole the food from that person which made that person steal food again.

[rosered]

Currently someone is under severe judgement from God because that person did something God directly told that person not to do.
While I didn't tell the person to disobey God, I surely triggered that event. I did that very wrong for sure so that's not what my question is about. Before I start I must add the past of the person makes it more 'logical' the wrong action was taken.

When it came to my attention I started to fast and ask God to show His mercy.
a] Am I doing good because I ask for compassion for others. I think one of Jesus' main teachig was about doing that very same things. He even begged for forgivenes for those who crucified Him. But that forgiveness was asked for sins against Himself. The person I'm talking about disobeyed th Father directly. Neverteless compassion and forgivenes was high on Jesus' agenda. The person is not able to ask for forgiveness.

b] I'm insulting the Father because in a way I'm saying: "Reverse Your judgement because it's way to harsh."

To make things clear I'm not fasting to receive mercy for my own part in this.

    I dont know if   it is wrong  to interceding for another s behalf , Jesus intercedes  for us , I would think that is not wrong

  I just  know all things are possible with God
  If you are doing it right or wrong   God would surly let you know    Bro T  and the hardest part is waiting on the Lord   to show us  .

I dont know a soul on the face of the earth that does not need Gods love and mercy   and grace

    :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

WW David fasted and prayed...regarding the first son of Bathsheba.  I don't think it is a sin what

you are doing.  It is up to Father to answer yeah or nay.    :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

 May not be an answer for what you are looking for.

Job 1:5  and it cometh to pass, when they have gone round the days of the banquet, that Job doth send and sanctify them, and hath risen early in the morning, and caused to ascend burnt-offerings--the number of them all--for Job said, `Perhaps my sons have sinned, yet blessed God in their heart.' Thus doth Job all the days.

[Seth]

I don't think asking for mercy for someone else could ever be an insult because love is never insulting to God. Just my 2 cents. I can't know what "wrong" you did, but we are told that if we sin and go to God he will be faithful to forgive and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

I don't think asking for mercy for someone else could ever be an insult because love is never insulting to God. Just my 2 cents. I can't know what "wrong" you did, but we are told that if we sin and go to God he will be faithful to forgive and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

Amen and I have faith that there will come a time when everyone will come to repentance. But a lot of people will have to learn the hard way.

[dajomaco]

 Peter  3) 8 Now finally, all of you should be like-minded and sympathetic, should love believers,[e] and be compassionate and humble,[f] 9 not paying back evil for evil or insult for insult but, on the contrary, giving a blessing, since you were called for this, so that you can inherit a blessing.

I just assume I'm doing the right thing (in faith).
Until I am very clearly shown otherwise.

[WhiteWings]

Thanks for the answers.

I tend to think option "a" because I see it happening several times in the Bible.
- I already mentioned Jesus, but obviously He isn't just someone asking for mercy. But we are supposed to do as Jesus did....

- When God was about to destroy Sodom, He was asked "will you spare if there are x good people" which in a way simply means your judgement is too harsh when there are x good people in Sodom.

In this thread other examples have been mentioned. But none of them are directly against God. If a person steals meat from a mortal man forgiveness can be asked. But what if that person steals meat directly from God's Altar?

If a person says WW is an idiot God won't even bother to respond. But if that same person says Father, Son or HS is an idiot, things may be very different.


On the other hand the Son forgave; and He did only do things He saw the Father doing. OTOH that was sins against man but "If you see the Son you see the Father". From another pov every sin is directly against Father because Sin is breaking the Law that originates from Father.

Again, looking at things from another view Father can't listen to prayers to reduce judgement (to nothing) because that means almost nobody gets judged because there is always someone praying for them.


I edited my first post with an example.

If God said 20 years could He reduce it to 20 days without being a liar?
I really don't know. The consequences of sin have been really severe but by sending Jesus things became way better for mankind.

[rosered]

 

if a person says WW is an idiot God won't even bother to respond. But if that same person says Father, Son or HS is an idiot, things may be very different.

  option A

  James 5  says a lot about  those suffering  and how to help

  no one is to make  mockery of anyone

12But above all things, my brethren, do not be swearing vows, neither by Heaven, neither by The Earth, neither by any other oath, but let your word be, 'Yes, yes' and 'No, no', lest you be condemned under the judgment.

13And if any of you is in suffering, let him pray, and if rejoicing, let him sing songs.

14And if one is ill, let him call The Elders of the church, and let them pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of Our Lord.

15And the prayer of faith heals the one who is ill and Our Lord raises him up, and if sins were done by him, they are forgiven him.

16But be confessing your offenses* one to another, and pray one for another to be healed, for the power of the prayer which a righteous person prays is great

. 17Elijah was a man subject to suffering like we, and he prayed that it would not rain on the land, and it did not come down for three years and six months;

18And he prayed again, and the skies gave rain and the land yielded its fruit.

19My brethren, if any of you will stray from the way* of truth, and a man restore him from his error*,

20Let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way gives life to his soul from death and blots out the multitude of his sins.

You stealing from that person should not cause that person to steal   WW , ever... they KNOW better   , things done in ignorance   is light chastening ,  but   , yes God  does just as He says     


  when Adam directly     went against what God said for him to do ''  not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil  ''   the day  , you eat  you will die   and what  happened   he died   after his punishment was toiling     the earth by the sweat of his brow to eat bread

Wow  , that   is HARSH   !!

  So are you saying you erred and cause this person to error   by what you did as well  ?

[eaglesway]

IMO, praying for mercy is never an error. God may hear or He may, in His superior wisdom disregard our request, but imo He will never judge us or fell insulted by our request for mercy. Abraham interceded for Sodom- God did not yield. Moses interceded when God wanted to destroy the Israelites and God heard his prayer. David prayed for mercy for himself when God judged him through the child in Bathsheba's womb- God did not hear.David prayed for mercy when Absalom usurped his throne and God heard. David prayed for mercy when God judged Israel for his sin of numbering the people(relying on strength rather than trusting the Lord)- God heard part way into the judgment.

"Who has known the mind of the Lord and who has been His counselor"

[WhiteWings]

IMO, praying for mercy is never an error. God may hear or He may, in His superior wisdom disregard our request, but imo He will never judge us or fell insulted by our request for mercy. Abraham interceded for Sodom- God did not yield. Moses interceded when God wanted to destroy the Israelites and God heard his prayer. David prayed for mercy for himself when God judged him through the child in Bathsheba's womb- God did not hear.David prayed for mercy when Absalom usurped his throne and God heard. David prayed for mercy when God judged Israel for his sin of numbering the people(relying on strength rather than trusting the Lord)- God heard part way into the judgment.

"Who has known the mind of the Lord and who has been His counselor"

Understood. But what's the use of praying then?
God acts in his own wisdom so He doesn't need me to remind to do or don't do something.
Take for example this one: "Moses interceded when God wanted to destroy the Israelites and God heard his prayer."
Would Israel be destroyed if Moses didn't pray? Is our mighty God really that dependant on our prayers? Did Moses really change God's mind? I find it hard to believe Moses had the power to save Israel by praying. OTOH we are frequently told to pray for the benefit of others. Jesus did so daily.

[jabcat]

Thanks for the answers.

I tend to think option "a" because I see it happening several times in the Bible.
- I already mentioned Jesus, but obviously He isn't just someone asking for mercy. But we are supposed to do as Jesus did....

On the other hand the Son forgave; and He did only do things He saw the Father doing. OTOH that was sins against man but "If you see the Son you see the Father". From another pov every sin is directly against Father because Sin is breaking the Law that originates from Father.

Again, looking at things from another view Father can't listen to prayers to reduce judgement (to nothing) because that means almost nobody gets judged because there is always someone praying for them.


The consequences of sin have been really severe but by sending Jesus things became way better for mankind.

:thumbsup:

[Eduard]

I don't think asking for mercy for someone else could ever be an insult because love is never insulting to God. Just my 2 cents. I can't know what "wrong" you did, but we are told that if we sin and go to God he will be faithful to forgive and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

Yes!  :iagree:

[rosered]

IMO, praying for mercy is never an error. God may hear or He may, in His superior wisdom disregard our request, but imo He will never judge us or fell insulted by our request for mercy. Abraham interceded for Sodom- God did not yield. Moses interceded when God wanted to destroy the Israelites and God heard his prayer. David prayed for mercy for himself when God judged him through the child in Bathsheba's womb- God did not hear.David prayed for mercy when Absalom usurped his throne and God heard. David prayed for mercy when God judged Israel for his sin of numbering the people(relying on strength rather than trusting the Lord)- God heard part way into the judgment.

"Who has known the mind of the Lord and who has been His counselor"

  So True !!   
  And suffered consequences   but , praying for mercy is never futile  as theses examples show

[sheila]

that's called 'standing in the breach"

[eaglesway]

IMO, praying for mercy is never an error. God may hear or He may, in His superior wisdom disregard our request, but imo He will never judge us or fell insulted by our request for mercy. Abraham interceded for Sodom- God did not yield. Moses interceded when God wanted to destroy the Israelites and God heard his prayer. David prayed for mercy for himself when God judged him through the child in Bathsheba's womb- God did not hear.David prayed for mercy when Absalom usurped his throne and God heard. David prayed for mercy when God judged Israel for his sin of numbering the people(relying on strength rather than trusting the Lord)- God heard part way into the judgment.

"Who has known the mind of the Lord and who has been His counselor"

Understood. But what's the use of praying then?
God acts in his own wisdom so He doesn't need me to remind to do or don't do something.
Take for example this one: "Moses interceded when God wanted to destroy the Israelites and God heard his prayer."
Would Israel be destroyed if Moses didn't pray? Is our mighty God really that dependant on our prayers? Did Moses really change God's mind? I find it hard to believe Moses had the power to save Israel by praying. OTOH we are frequently told to pray for the benefit of others. Jesus did so daily.

This where my view departs from most on here....but I'll offer this anyway :o)

If we do not pray, mercy will be withheld in measure- as we grow into our priesthood(every high priest is chosen from among men to offer intercession for men, therefore he can sympathize with the weakness of men-Hebrews(close from memory).

God has set us in the earth as "salt". If the salt has lost its savor(character of Christ- the intercessor)- it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trampled under the feet of men.

It is a stewardship of grace, and a relationship of growth in love.

Eph 4:11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness [h]in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

1 Pet 4:10 As each one has received a special gift, employ it in serving one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God. 11 Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ,

James 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

Eph 6:18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord's people.

[WhiteWings]

If we do not pray, mercy will be withheld in measure- as we grow into our priesthood(every high priest is chosen from among men to offer intercession for men, therefore he can sympathize with the weakness of men-Hebrews(close from memory).

While I would love it that I can help the person I destroyed by prayer I still find the prayer concept a bit weird. I explain that with an example.

If the pope has cut his finger by peeling an apple and one of his cardinals posts that news on the Vatican website many Catholics start to pray.
If Mr-unknown breaks every bone in his body people skip the message and continue reading.
Maybe both are equally good persons. But the pope benefits far more from the power of prayer.

[sheila]

Tony no one is bereft in this..the Holy spirit hear's the groaning of people and makes intercession. Also,

  each person is assigned guardian angels..that stand before God...Mt 18;10  See that you do not look

down on one of these little ones,thier angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven


  it's like a prominent buisiness man that dies,funeral.....all kinds of people out in mass in the cmmunity...

   while an old widow or old man...may have a few at his memorial..  Godis better than that..He is not

a respector of persons...  I've seen Him say no..to a whole congregation..that prayed for Rose and my sister

Pam,when she got diagnosed with brain cancer. and yes..in answer to one single person that prayed....

[sheila]

Tony,we all make mistakes..we all sometimes say the wrong thing,do the wrong thing,hurt people unintentionally

   that poor doctor intern that almost killed my great-nephew...I had to pray for him,too.Cause I knew

   he was devastated......I am praying for you,too,Tony.    :friendstu:

[micah7:9]

A human adage, to err is human. Know that we are human and we were made to err.
Rom 8:20  for to vanity was the creation made subject--not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it --in hope,
Erring is in our nucleus, our nature, erring is what we were made to do, but asking forgiveness, well that is a great obstacle different in or make up, but it must be done, for peace. :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

If we do not pray, mercy will be withheld in measure- as we grow into our priesthood(every high priest is chosen from among men to offer intercession for men, therefore he can sympathize with the weakness of men-Hebrews(close from memory).

While I would love it that I can help the person I destroyed by prayer I still find the prayer concept a bit weird. I explain that with an example.

If the pope has cut his finger by peeling an apple and one of his cardinals posts that news on the Vatican website many Catholics start to pray.
If Mr-unknown breaks every bone in his body people skip the message and continue reading.
Maybe both are equally good persons. But the pope benefits far more from the power of prayer.

The logic supposes that God operates by laws or policies that He cannot override, rather than recognizing that He  knows the number of hairs upon our heads and sees every sparrow fall and every blade of grass in the field.

It is so much better to simply trust in faith that He has encouraged us to pray for one another and has promised that our prayers are fruitful on behalf of ourselves and others. Why analyze beyond that point?

Whether or not the pope has a million people pray for his finger or not, if God has made me aware of the need of mr. nobody, I will pray for him in faith, assured that my intercession has power with God, because i trust His word, and because I kno His faithfulness in my personal experience. :o)

He may answer my prayer for mr. nobody before it even leaves my lips.

[rosered]

    Bro T 
Matt   9   But Yeshua turned, and saw her, and he said to her, "Take heart my daughter, your faith has saved you." And the woman was healed from that moment


If the one you are praying for   has not the faith   to be healed  , saved   , we can pray  on their  behalf  , just as the man whom asked Jesus   please help  for His son ..
  who was under the spell of a demon  causing harm to him 

But first he needed help himself to have the faith and ask for it  first   ,   the boy was healed     and went on and lived    the course of  his time  on earth

     I always think about Lazarus    whom was raised from the dead    and      was made an example    , but than went on and died   the mortal    death  as well

     We all die mortally     , but for me its not the end   of Life  at all  as some seem to believe

   they may end up ''cut off ''   for a time      , but again    time will be no more  one Day .
  the work in that ONE DAY   will be a  mighty   one,  that  Last Day  , many  still   have   hope in  for sure ..  those of the UR  camp

  in  one day as the 1000 years        to repent   the last day  is   Jesus   being the  Resurrection and the Life      John 11

...24Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."


25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies

, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?


Peter

...7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


2 Timothy 3:1-5 ESV

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.


For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable,

slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the

appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

     the world is full of troubles     ,  letting  your yes be   yes and your no  be no   anything more than this  evil is present to   cause harm  , thus the warning in the above scripture