By the way..

[Craig]

John 14:15
Jesus said "If you love me, you will obey what I command."

John 14:23-24
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 21:15-17
When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?"
He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my sheep.

2 Peter 1:5-7
For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.

I have no problem with anyone saying the greatest of these is Love. I have a problem with those who say this but do so by putting it in contention against knowledge. It is very wrong to renounce and forsake knowledge, turning what was never evil into something evil causing many little ones to lose their way and destroy the faith of many. It is very wrong to downplay the role of knowledge because without love knowledge is unproductive and useless, or that knowledge puffs up and love edifies; these reasons are no reasons to say knowledge is evil, not needed, or insult those who have it.

Proverbs 1:22
"How long will you simple ones love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?

[CHB]

(1Cor. 13:2) though I understand all mysteries , and all knowledge;and have not charity, I am nothing.

(1Cor. 13:8) Charity never faileth, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Knowledge is important but it is not the most important thing, love is.

CHB

[laren]

knowledge in of itself is not the problem, imo; it's when we self define through knowledge.  The power of sin is the law (knowledge of good and evil)

I'm right, your wrong.  I'm enlightened, you're not.  etc. etc. 

It's this attachment that leads to that which one can be ashamed of and that which one can pat themselves on the back for.

The self defining through the knowledge of good and evil does not feed our inner self (inner man). It nourishes our insecure "self" with more insecurity. Just as a wounded animal can become more dangerous so can a wounded soul.

[hopeful]

knowledge in of itself is not the problem, imo; it's when we self define through knowledge.  The power of sin is the law (knowledge of good and evil)

I'm right, your wrong.  I'm enlightened, you're not.  etc. etc. 

It's this attachment that leads to that which one can be ashamed of and that which one can pat themselves on the back for.

The self defining through the knowledge of good and evil does not feed our inner self (inner man). It nourishes our insecure "self" with more insecurity. Just as a wounded animal can become more dangerous so can a wounded soul.

Amen, Laren.   :thumbsup:

[laren]

Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is what got us here in the first place.
We need now to eat from the Tree of Life.

I agree.  So how do you do that?  How do you throw get out of the "judgement" mode based on right/wrong, detach your "false identity" from it; and move to rest, trust from where imo, love flows from the inside out. 

Judgements are just thoughts and opinions.  "My wife shouldn't do this", "If you didn't act so selfish, then .....". 

These are all "should and should not's", all of which fight reality, "what is".  Fighting "what is", leads to upsets, anger, frustration, depression, etc.  Fighting reality is imo, "hiding behind fig leaves".  It's time to come out of the closet completely naked, and meet our Father.

The world that we see/perceive in others that we don't like, imo; is still areas of ourselves that haven't come to a place of acceptance.  Acceptance of "perfection".  Acceptance of unconditional love. 

I really believe there is a reason we are told to "love others as ourselves."

And we "love HIM because he first loved us". 

When we know HIS unconditional love, and accept it; LOVE to others is all that is left. 

just some thoughts. 

Here is an interesting sites, that I believe; even though not a "christian site" shows some ways to become more mindful of the "lies/thougts" we've told ourselves and attached to. 

http://www.thework.com/index.asp

http://www.masteryoflife.com/index.html

[Loveroftruth]

Anti-Knowledge rhetoric will receive sharp rebukes from me and I will present the case which demonstrates that if anyone forsakes knowledge, they are wrong to do so.

There are those who are Led by God to NOT seek knowledge and there are those who are led TO seek knowledge - each one is correct based on what God is CALLING that person to do. Both sides should be sensitive to see how God may individually be leading another  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: That is wisdom LT..... :thumbsup:. There was a season when I first came to the Lord that I was supposed to devour the Word without ceasing and I did that, until He gave me a dream that made it plain it had turned to idolatry.

Yes, even that, can turn into idolatry. So I ceased from that work of the flesh, which HAD BEEN righteousness UNTIL the Spirit said stop it, and then I waited upon the Lord before I picked it back up again. THAT is the rest of the Spirit, ie. we cease from our own soulishly motivated labors, even from what looks good to the lust of the eyes, and wait for further instructions from the Spirit. 

God has to cleanse the motive of our hearts, He's the only one that can do it, because many times we are not aware ourselves that a wrong motive has creeped in. What is the righteousness of the Spirit for one, may not be the righteousness of the Spirit for another, at that moment in their walk.

This walk is individual, one on one with the Father, and the only thing we can do is share what has been made life in us by the Spirit, and trust the Spirit of God will quicken that portion to them as needed in THEIR season. The times and the seasons belong unto the LORD. This is why we're not to judge another in meat and drink, because we don't know what season He has them in, unless He tells us specifically. Blessings to all.....

[Loveroftruth]

Card,

Amen to your writing -I can so relate to what you say. I had an experiences that forever changed the way I look at learning and knowledge – I have shared it with a few but will share a snippet of that writing (it was written in a debate about us needing to know everything in the Bible):
________________

In my experience, I believe it is false to say that we won't recognize what is written on our hearts if we have not first studied it – it is just false and makes false that which Jesus said and did.

1 John 2
As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

John 16
"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

I once had an experience on an airplane in which God used me to give a prophetic word and speak for over an hour to a Jewish man and his son on their way home from Israel (they both had those little round caps on their head)...... the things that came out of my mouth were NOT from me but Him. It was like the scripture that says "Don't worry about what you will say, I will place the words in your mouth".. God did this, He used my mouth and a something  took place on that plane.........and God spoke to me after and said these words....."I could use you because you where not studied up on the Jewish traditions and such".

This was a HUGE lesson for me, God could use me because I did NOT know the reality of "who" I was speaking to and the possible consequences to what I was saying.....otherwise I may have maybe NOT done it out of fear or I would have used my knowledge to try to debate.....

I don't have time to share all the details, yet I will tell you that GOD met with this Jewish father and son in a major way. I saw them change before my eyes.

So, from that experience and others, I know it is not by stored up head knowledge that will accomplish anything, but it is by my lifeline which is the Holy Spirit that I can have the knowledge needed. And in this case, stored up head knowledge would have made me "unusable"!.....

Ever since this time the Lord has spoken to me that I am only to tap into and learn the things which "He" directs me to learn....
____________________________

Now, I want to make sure you all reading this understand that I am NOT saying studying and knowledge is bad... if God has called you to it, do it. But for some, God has spoken to them to keep their doctrine loosely, for when God desires to speak through us, many times our doctrine filters change the pure word.

Seeker and I have been speaking about this the past few days – what is the hardest thing in our walks right now? Its trying to get through all the false teachings we have excepted as truth... God has to spend more time taking that stuff down then giving us the truth....
Oh what a wonderful gift it would be to have a virgin view and be able to read the Word for the first time......

[GraceFull]

:cloud9: That is wisdom LT..... :thumbsup:. There was a season when I first came to the Lord that I was supposed to devour the Word without ceasing and I did that, until He gave me a dream that made it plain it had turned to idolatry.

Yes, even that, can turn into idolatry. So I ceased from that work of the flesh, which HAD BEEN righteousness UNTIL the Spirit said stop it, and then I waited upon the Lord before I picked it back up again. THAT is the rest of the Spirit, ie. we cease from our own soulishly motivated labors, even from what looks good to the lust of the eyes, and wait for further instructions from the Spirit. 

Dear Cardinal: Through you, God has answered a question I posed to my husband just this morning. When God began revealing the truth of His grace to me, I became totally obsessed with seeking. Most of the hours of my day were spent in study, research, etc. Then two years ago, the chronic pain I've experienced for the past five years suddenly intensified to the point that I could no longer continue pursuing my zealous attempt at quenching my overwhelming thirst for knowledge. I said to my husband this morning, "I truly don't understand why it would be His will to take that from me," and because I've been unable to "seek"  as I once did, I've even felt as though my passion for Him had waned, that I had become "soft," but yet, simultaneously, I also realized that my trust in Him (resting in Him) had grown, and while I knew that this was His will for me, I still found myself wondering why would God deprive me (and I truly felt deprived) of such a "worthy" pursuit. And this morning, through you, God showed me that my quest for knowledge had, in fact, evolved into idolatry. Knowledge is nothing more than information without application and understanding. Since all things are according to the counsel of His will, the whole process was, of course, according to His will and His purpose, just as your words were in your post. I'm just now reminded of Jesus' words in John 16:13: "And when He, the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth." He is the Author and Finisher - and "He Who began a good work in you will perfect it ..." He has all of us exactly where He wants us. The gift of Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit frees God from any perceived box. Thank you, Lord, for using Cardinal to answer my question.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: PTL Gracefull! Father, I give You praise! Wait and see if that pain doesn't leave your body in a season, also. The Lord gave me a teaching one time because I asked Him how it was I got a miraculous back injury healing (they told me at 26 I'd be in a wheelchair by the time I was 30), when no one prayed for me, and no one laid hands on me, and in fact, I never asked Him to heal me either, because I thought I was unworthy to receive anything.

He showed me how He had had the Israelites get the Egyptians and the Chaldeans who had specialized skills, to built part of the temple, even though in other places He had forbid contact, intermarrying, ect. with them. It seemed odd that He would tell them to bring in people who were idolators, unclean, ect. to build it.

He told me that no one had to tell them to leave the temple when their assigned work was done. And in the same way, thru walking out the understanding of the Word I had at that time, I had overcome the darkness that had brought the injury/curse upon me, and so no one had to tell that unclean "workman" to leave THIS temple, it's work was done!

I'm now almost 52, and was led of the Lord into work that required lifting people at times. Yet when injured I couldn't pick up a gallon of milk without pain, and I've never spent a day in a wheelchair, to God be the glory! He did this so much with me initially because I had several serious injuries, for a season there, I actually thought my "ministry" was going to be going back to specialists to tell them God healed me (which I actually did several times), LOL.

:cloud9: And LT, that was a wonderful testimony to what He can do, when we submit ourselves to His Spirit. As for a virgin view, I had one. I had never read it before I found Him. But it is amazing how much still got distorted and filtered from just my relatively short time (about 3 years total) in different churches He led me to, even though because of things He showed me, I tended to be at odds with with most of their doctrines, from the get go. We just hear something and it registers without our being aware of it, until He begins to uncover it. And we did it to ourselves with our own carnal mind's understanding too, so even if no one was influencing us, it's impossible to escape the bands of corruption within our own 2 ears without Him! Blessings to all....

[Craig]

Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil is what got us here in the first place.
We need now to eat from the Tree of Life.

This is a fallacy, a false cause scenario. It was NOT the tree of knowledge which got us here in the first place. There is no evidence of this, anywhere in Scripture. In fact, it says that if it were not for the tree of knowledge, we would have never known what was the tree of Life in order to eat from it.

Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

So what got us here in the first place?

Disobedience to the command, "Do not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, because in the day you eat of it, you will die." Adam disobeyed, death followed.

Romans 5:17-19
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Death came not from the knowledge of good and evil. Death came from disobedience of the command to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

[whyiloveitaly.com]

Recently I've been feeling torn about the time I've spent here and on the Internet in general. On the one hand, many readings I've found have been a blessing to me; testimonies and scripture discussions have I believe made me look at what I believe in a new light.
At the same time, I also see that trying to "build up what I believe" (as one once told me: "Gentleman, man your scriptures!) has led to a distancing in my walk with my Saviour. It's very much like what has been said earlier: studying and laboring in the Word can steer us away from our walk! (We're in the same boat, Gracefull!!!)
Now I know that it's not wise to look back in our walk. Manna is to be had daily; old blessings are not where God is to be found. We must move with the cloud.
Still, I ask myself: when did I feel closest to the Lord? When did I feel His hand upon me so much so that I was even able to say, "Praise God! Even if I were in prison, I'd be singing to Him!" ?

I've heard it said that where He finds you, there is your ministry. Well, mine was the revelation of the Kingdom of God within man.
And my responses to people were not in intellectual debates. A lot of times, I didn't know what to say! But praise God, it was HIM talking, precisely because I didn't know what to say!

A verse that I've been returning to these days, after much, much study, is:

Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. (Prov. 3:5-6)

Much studying truely can lead to suffering!

That doesn't mean that I don't want to learn about the Lord. I prefer to seek Him day to day, and see where He leads me. I want to manifest His love to the world, and tell them I love them, just as God also loves them. (And isn't that what the world is looking to see in us---whether we have love in our hearts towards them?)  The Kingdom truly is a Kingdom of love!

Laren:
Even though we've never met, you're teaching me a lot!!! And I'm happy to be the student! (Do you mind if I quote some of your post on my site?)

Blessings to all of you,
Bri

[laren]

Laren:
Even though we've never met, you're teaching me a lot!!! And I'm happy to be the student! (Do you mind if I quote some of your post on my site?)

Blessings to all of you,
Bri

Hi Bri,

i'm glad some of my posts have been helpful and use anything u want that i post.  Often, what i write is what i've learned from others too. 

nice to meet you

:Sparkletooth:

[hopeful]

Laren:
Even though we've never met, you're teaching me a lot!!! And I'm happy to be the student! (Do you mind if I quote some of your post on my site?)

Blessings to all of you,
Bri

Where's your site, Brian?

[whyiloveitaly.com]

www.ahigherway.net

I use it to post things that are dear to me, hoping they may be to others as well (those who find the site, anyway!)

I'm open to ideas or comments!

Blessings!
Bri

[hopeful]

Okay!  I book marked it!  Did you know you can put your site in your profile and that it will show up here every time you post?