hell

[cranny]

can we be safe in saying there is a place called hell ? or is the temporary correction period called something else? will believers go through this correction period after they die or just unbelievers?

[WhiteWings]

Yes there is a hell. It's just not the ET type of hell. Hell used to mean a concealed place. Ask an old farmer he has a hell on his yard. He will point you to a heap of potatoes covered with sand. The real Bible hell is the grave.

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=hel%20with%201%20l.htm

[FreeAtLast]

can we be safe in saying there is a place called hell ? or is the temporary correction period called something else? will believers go through this correction period after they die or just unbelievers?

those believers who turn back and Sin Willfully will suffer just as the unbelievers

those who knew their master's will and did it not will be beaten with many stripes

[Jason76]

"Hell ain't a bad place to be" (AC/DC)  Nah, just kidding.   :icon_jokercolor:

those believers who turn back and Sin Willfully will suffer just as the unbelievers

those who knew their master's will and did it not will be beaten with many stripes

I agree with the above quote, even though it adds uncertainty to my life.   At least, though, I know the lake of fire is only a correction, not eternal.

Can anyone explain the stripes thing in more detail?

Yes, there are too many verses saying believers won't be able to get away with living carnally, despite what Presbyterians or Baptists might say.  If you are into sin, then you better make sure you drive safely, and take good care of your health.

Another verse about this situation is the branches which produce no fruit, and are burned.

Yes there is a hell. It's just not the ET type of hell. Hell used to mean a concealed place. Ask an old farmer he has a hell on his yard. He will point you to a heap of potatoes covered with sand. The real Bible hell is the grave.

The place of correction is the lake of fire, not hell.

[jabcat]

can we be safe in saying there is a place called hell ? or is the temporary correction period called something else? will believers go through this correction period after they die or just unbelievers?

those believers who turn back and Sin Willfully will suffer just as the unbelievers

those who knew their master's will and did it not will be beaten with many stripes

I'm not coming down hard on this, because I doubt any of us know all this stuff for 100% certainty and completeness.  But I wonder about this;  where the age of Law comes into these type statements (at least some of them? and which ones?) that Jesus made, and then how we build our current post-cross/age of grace beliefs on them.  I must ask, where does the cleansing blood come in, the gift of grace through faith and that not of ourselves,  if it's all based on our works.  Even obedience, although I believe in obedience (but not that it earns our standing before God, which is grace and faith, free gift as He draws and chooses, giving faith to believe).  I want to start a thread soon on rightly dividing Jesus' words before the cross while still in the age of Law from how they apply after the cross.   :2c: 

[eaglesway]

The kingdom of God came in Jesus Christ's person before He was crucified. He was reviled by the Pharisees because He forgave sins, wasnt He?

Why would He teach things that were of not lasting import, applying only to a time before His own death burial and resurrection?

What He did do however is show how all the law and the prophets pointed towards His coming. He also made it clear that His teaching was superior to, and the fulfillment of Moses and John the Baptist. He said "You say you stand on the scriptures but they testify of me."

IMO there is no need to divide Jesus' words as if some of them only apply to the "age of law" before His Death Burial Resurrection and Ascension. He did not come to speak to the dead, He came to speak to the living and all His words are appropriate for the edification and understanding of anyone who is alive :o)

[jabcat]

I asked "how", not "if" they apply.  In what sense, since He was DIRECTLY speaking to Jews before their judgment in 70 AD.  You don't think we need to rightly divide, i.e., interpret/understand their meanings, and apply them correctly?  I'm sure that's not what you want to say.

Like I said, I doubt any of us know it all about it, I sure don't.  But based on the letter of what you've said above, do you personally believe our standing before God is based on our works?  And do you then believe believers - blood bought, forgiven, sitting with God in heavenly places, Holy Spirit drawn, sealed, and filled by the grace of God - will be beaten when they face their Father?

[jabcat]

Maybe so.  Or maybe for the believer it means something metaphorical, such as losing rewards/position of service.   :dunno2: 

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:           

 
Col 2 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.


18Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

19and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God   :HeartThrob:


 
 

[Seth]

I just want to throw in the mix that Jesus wasn't just speaking to Jews. He was speaking sometimes to unbelieving Jews and believing Jews. Many times, Jesus was speaking to believers. That doesn't mean they received the promise yet, but they indeed were believers and Jesus had some warnings for those who called themselves followers of Christ.

[jabcat]

I'll have some disagreement here Seth.  At that time they were all Jews, whether they believed in Him or not.  In fact, He ignored the gentile woman - said He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  Again, even if they believed in Him, it was still before the cross.  I believe the disciples themselves were spiritually reborn/converted AFTER the cross.  I don't believe they had ANY idea who He really was or what His mission was until after the cross when the Holy Spirit drew them and gave them faith to believe on Him truly as Savior.   :2c:

[rosered]

I just want to throw in the mix that Jesus wasn't just speaking to Jews. He was speaking sometimes to unbelieving Jews and believing Jews. Many times, Jesus was speaking to believers. That doesn't mean they received the promise yet, but they indeed were believers and Jesus had some warnings for those who called themselves followers of Christ.

John 8   Jesus the Light of the World   !

...29"And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone,

for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."

30As He spoke these things, many came to believe in Him.

[rosered]

At that time they were all Jews, believers or not.  In fact, He ignored the gentile woman - said He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  Again, even if they believed in Him, it was still before the cross.  I believe the disciples themselves were spiritually reborn/converted AFTER the cross.

    Yes !!   :thumbsup:  Mark 15

...38And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.


39  When the centurion, who was standing right in front of Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, "Truly this man was the Son of God!"

[Seth]

I'll have some disagreement here Seth.  At that time they were all Jews, whether they believe in Him or not.  In fact, He ignored the gentile woman - said He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  Again, even if they believed in Him, it was still before the cross.  I believe the disciples themselves were spiritually reborn/converted AFTER the cross.  I don't believe they had ANY idea who He really was or what His mission was until after the cross when the Holy Spirit drew them and gave them faith to believe on Him truly as Savior.   :2c:

Again, I didn't say they received the promise. What I was saying is that Jesus was speaking to believers about what he expects from believers, and what happens to believers when they are disobedient. I don't see cause to relegate all his warnings to 70AD, because Paul and the Apostles uphold these warnings in the age of Grace (BTW, I see grace much differently than most Christians.)

[Seth]

I believe that when we come into faith in Christ, our old sins are wiped away, and the slate is cleaned. Going forward if we sin, we go to God to confess and he is faithful to forgive and cleanse us. If we take a stance of pride in declaring ourselves without sin and withhold repentance, the Lord will have to humble us through judgment, even destruction that our own sin brings upon ourselves.

[jabcat]

I'll have some disagreement here Seth.  At that time they were all Jews, whether they believe in Him or not.  In fact, He ignored the gentile woman - said He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  Again, even if they believed in Him, it was still before the cross.  I believe the disciples themselves were spiritually reborn/converted AFTER the cross.  I don't believe they had ANY idea who He really was or what His mission was until after the cross when the Holy Spirit drew them and gave them faith to believe on Him truly as Savior.   :2c:

Again, I didn't say they received the promise. What I was saying is that Jesus was speaking to believers about what he expects from believers, and what happens to believers when they are disobedient. I don't see cause to relegate all his warnings to 70AD, because Paul and the Apostles uphold these warnings in the age of Grace (BTW, I see grace much differently than most Christians.)

Haha, you're right you did say that.  Touchy subject perhaps, maybe we all ought to read as well as type.   :laughing7:

I also again, am not saying it all should be relegated to 70 AD either. I'm saying rightly divide it, correctly interpret it, apply it correctly.  I personally think it's an issue, that we often jumble up principles and precepts that have specific meanings, but I further believe Christendom as a whole (most/all of us) are unable to truly completely sort it out and understand it. 

I truly felt it was a mistake for me to make the first post above, and I'm seeing that's apparently true.  :)   Sorry guys.

[Seth]

I think you brought up a worthy.point, personally.  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:  so do I !!   

  REALLY if you read this Jesus did say He come for the lost sheep of Israel !!

   Paul was being sent  with the SPIRIT of Christ to the gentiles / nations   Acts 
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

[Lazarus Short]

Yes there is a hell. It's just not the ET type of hell. Hell used to mean a concealed place. Ask an old farmer he has a hell on his yard. He will point you to a heap of potatoes covered with sand. The real Bible hell is the grave.

http://home.online.nl/spamfree/ShepherdsVoice/index.html?page=hel%20with%201%20l.htm

Further, the fellow who covered those potatoes with sand was said to have "helled" them - "hell" as a verb.

[jabcat]

Thanks rosie.   :bigGrin:

I think it's important, but I also think most of the church is hopelessly lost in trying to understand/sort it out until the Holy Spirit just truly and without a doubt lets us know.  I do think things like this, including our understanding of the true meaning and results of the cross, affect our many varied beliefs and wanderings.  In the meantime, I guess we each need to seek the Lord on it for understanding.  As Gary A says and I very much agree - "we're living in an age of a mixture of truth and error". 


And Lazarus brings us back on topic  :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Thanks rosie.   :bigGrin:

I think it's important, but I also think most of the church is hopelessly lost in trying to understand/sort it out until the Holy Spirit just truly and without a doubt lets us know.  I do think things like this, including our understanding of the true meaning and results of the cross, affect our many varied beliefs and wanderings.  In the meantime, I guess we each need to seek the Lord on it for understanding.  As Gary A says and I very much agree - "we're living in an age of a mixture of truth and error". 


And Lazarus brings us back on topic  :thumbsup:

   Well I  totally agree with that !
  I sure dont know  alot of things , but I have faith in Jesus  work on that Cross  ,  By The Father   and His promises are sure !

  :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

I have faith in Jesus  work on that Cross  :HeartThrob:

amen  :HeartThrob: