Are those who understand universalism, predestined to do so?

[Jason76]

No man comes to the Father unless he is called.
Everyone knows about Him, but not their time to learn about the first resurrection. They will learn at the great white throne of judgment.
Good example about this knowing "about" him is like we know a lot "about" your president, but only those who he talks to personally know him at a deeper level. Still under the same government, just different levels of understanding.
In the great white throne era people will have the correction and development of their understanding.
The first resurrection is for the ecclesia who have been appointed before the world began so that no man can glorify himself.

So your saying universalists are the ecclesia, and they came to this knowledge by revelation, not discovery (on their own part)?

[sheila]

my  :2c:  all men are pre-destined to understand.and become reconciled to God.because

the Lamb was slain before the founding of this world..  but each in his own order.

     now the 'order' is dependant on God and His manifest will for all the generations

    of men. ex; Abraham was elected by God for a certain purpose according to the

  will of God in his generation..and God revealing 'faith put into the word of God

  spoken to you..and beleiving God is counted as righteousness by God.

     Noah was elected to hear God's word unto him and declare it in his day,according

  to the purpose of God in that generation.

  now there were other men beside Abraham on the earth in his generation..but it

was Abraham He revealed himself to,spoke to and fulfilled His word to,for His very own

purpose.

    It does not depend on the one desiring,but on God who does the choosing.....

  and there is no room for boasting in the matter over any other man..for who has made

the called or chosen ones to differ over any other man.? If He chooses any to

be used for making known His express glories or express will..He will do these things


   He has been revealing Himself,His will,His divine plan progressively through the

  generations.  He has furnished Himself wittness's,recorded His scriptures,given

prophets the atonement Lamb,Messiah the Holy spirit and will fulfill all of the things


  He has declared/revealed and desired. and it is He that decides who He will use.for

any given purpose[SOVEREIGN]



     It has been revealed that just as we have all bore the image of the corruptible

  one,so,too,shall we all bear the image of the incorruptible one.

      People have not understood

[eaglesway]

IMO, the ecclesia is made up of all who call upon the name of Jesus in a tru heart. Some of them have been illuminated to the full gospel, which is the good news of the salvation of all thru Jesus Christ, the Lord. All will eventually receive that illumination.

Phil 2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Acts 3:19 Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.

1 Cor 15 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in [h]Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

Col 1:19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

[WhiteWings]

So your saying Universalists are the Ecclesia, and they came to this knowledge by revelation, not discovery (on their own part

Jason that are good but not so simple questions to answer.

Ecclesia means assembly, gathering etc. I think this is the smallest possible Ecclesia: Mat 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
So from that view all Christians who gather are part of the Ecclesia. To be honest for me many Christians are just as Christian as a muslim. Just because many are so very wrong. Don't get me wrong everyone without exception has error in his/her view of God. That includes the best universalists. But when portraying a lovely Father God as brutal horror God the error is great they no longer worship God but an very distorted image of Him.

It's indeed true that URs came to the knowledge by revelation but again I believe that's a to black of white view. God can barge into your life all guns blazing like He he did with Saul on the road to Damascus. Paul very quickly learned a lot of thing (but kept learning the rest of his life). While not claiming I have any insight in God's way of working but I think it can be much more choice based. For example God gives you the opportunity to take the first step by providing an interesting article on Google search. Then it's your choice to invest time into reading it. While I fully believe God has or can have full control, He doesn't use that power to the extreme. Not even on His saints. A good example of that is Moses. Strong believer. No doubt about that. But still he struck the rock twice instead of once. Father knew that was going to happen. The Father could have prevented it. But... you know the story.

So I would say we discover a lot of things on our own part, but theFather has put the tools to do so on your path.

Are those who understand universalism, predestined to do so?

Yes. But as said their are many levels of understanding. Some know a little, some know a lot. Some are predestined to just know and some to actually do something with that knowledge.


:2c:

[jabcat]

IMO, the ecclesia is made up of all who call upon the name of Jesus in a tru heart.

Amen.  I believe that's scriptural.

Paul said the gospel is Jesus Christ, crucified, risen again.

[Jason76]

So your saying that an acceptance of universalism isn't predestined.  The pre-destined thing refers to God calling prophets etc.. (at least when referring to revelation), but pre-destination to salvation was for all people.

[rosered]

So your saying universalists are the ecclesia, and they came to this knowledge by revelation, not discovery (on their own part)?

So your saying that an acceptance of universalism isn't predestined.  The pre-destined thing refers to God calling prophets etc.. (at least when referring to revelation), but pre-destination to salvation was for all people.

   Wow , I am just going to share the simple  understanding I have  ,  my  thoughts concerning  Gods marvelous works  ,  so many of us are in different places   and we  all  do understand things differently .
This is only to help  and nothing more , I am not an authority on anything .  But this is a comfort and peace that   settles lots of  questions    I too have and have had  in times past,  for sure .

  To God be the glory  only  that any of us progress , though Jesus Christ .

   Paul understood    something  perfectly clear  after his    encounter with the Lord     that  all would be saved when entering the   3rd heaven or Paradise of God     

    First we have the natural heaven  [   our  particular   old  atmosphere   where the Sun shines and rain and clouds and storms appear ]

  the 2nd heaven or the  old  heaven   where all are under the Law is spiritual     but is  disappearing, fading and being rolled up  [done away with in Christ ]     

      the Paradise of God  where the thief on the cross was promised  by Jesus    that DAY  would be with Him   after the death of his natural body   ended

This the the heaven where grace prevails and death is no more

and though we are   not experiencing this   literally     , we do in our minds eye , just as Paul was expressing this and speaking about it        the true salvation of ALL       would happen      as the  return of  Christ Jesus    after the CROSS

Paul knew this and spoke of this continually     in his preaching and teaching    in the written  message of  the good news of the   gospel     
  and many  of us here and now believe and know  its the truth   , that have passed from death to life        and just waiting for the actual        and literal manifestation   pf the Gathering of all into Christ      Till God be all in all ...     

   2 Corinthians  12 1   I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

3And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—     4was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

I do not know if this will help  you or not
  it sure has helped me    by simple and direct truths     , not a bunch of   beating around the bushes

  In the Word, its always there , But until the LIGHT OF CHRIST shines on it    and makes it a reality [solid  grounded   truth ]     we  miss it every time its like reading the WORD with new eyes and  hearts   , but before that its like when Jesus went though the  crowds and they missed him   , he slipped  by them   unknowingly ,    as it is also written   

     

[eaglesway]

"As in Adam all died so also in Christ shall all be made alive, but each in his own order..." 1 Cor 15

"For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Romans 8

"To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure." 1 Peter

Evryone is predestined according to the foreknowledge of God. Called out in their order in the administration of the fulness of times- the gathering together into one of all things in Jesus Christ.(ephesians 1:9-11)- even His adversaries(1 Cor 15)

22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

[sheila]

AMEN!  BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS,I AM.......GOD FOREKNEW US ALL IN CHRIST BEFORE

  THE FOUNDATION OF THIS WORLD.  IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD.....

[Shev]

All truth is by revelation, and where there is revelation, there is one doing the revealing. If there is one doing the revealing, then it is a sovereign action on His part, and pertains to His timing and plan, and He cannot be coerced or forced into a different path. There is no way that true illumination can be searched out by the carnal mind, but it must be revealed by God through the mind of Christ.

Every life is going to go through the revelation of Jesus Christ, and when "a truth" (such as Universal Reconciliation) is revealed, it is in reality a greater revelation of Jesus Christ, being "THE truth".

[joeteekay]

For the Elect, the first fruits:

Joh_6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:65  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Then in the WTJ all the rest of humanity are called and chosen to be saved.

[micah7:9]

I am not a universalist. I believe 1Ti 2:3  for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour,
1Ti 2:4  who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
1Ti 2:5  for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6  who did give himself a ransom for all--the testimony in its own times--
1Ti 4:10  for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men--especially of those believing.

[eaglesway]

All truth is by revelation, and where there is revelation, there is one doing the revealing. If there is one doing the revealing, then it is a sovereign action on His part, and pertains to His timing and plan, and He cannot be coerced or forced into a different path. There is no way that true illumination can be searched out by the carnal mind, but it must be revealed by God through the mind of Christ.

Every life is going to go through the revelation of Jesus Christ, and when "a truth" (such as Universal Reconciliation) is revealed, it is in reality a greater revelation of Jesus Christ, being "THE truth".

:thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

I am not a universalist. I believe 1Ti 2:3  for this is right and acceptable before God our Saviour,
1Ti 2:4  who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
1Ti 2:5  for one is God, one also is mediator of God and of men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6  who did give himself a ransom for all--the testimony in its own times--
1Ti 4:10  for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men--especially of those believing.

:dsunny: