Garden of Eden

[Jason76]

In the garden of Eden, Satan promises them the ability to understand all knowledge (apart from God), and endless life.  How does this relate to the universalism message?  For instance, if people really do die (as Satan denied), then how can they have eternal life, and especially, how can those who reject Christ all the way to the grave, eventually have eternal life?

Also New Age thinking promises that people can become like Gods knowing good and evil.   Is universalism hostile to New Age thinking, or Eastern religions?

[WhiteWings]

In the garden of Eden, Satan promises them the ability to understand all knowledge (apart from God), and endless life.  How does this relate to the universalism message?

The wages of sin is death. We all sin, so we all die. Unless we pay God back something that buys back our life. We are unable to pay that price but Jesus did that for us. I think that's how most Christian denominations see it. Universalism differs from other denominations by stating 100% of all humanity will (eventually) be in heaven.

For instance, if people really do die (as Satan denied), then how can they have eternal life, and especially, how can those who reject Christ all the way to the grave, eventually have eternal life?

Because the Father has put no time limit on salvation. Lets take an atheist as an example. That person has a website and ridicules religion all his life. Often because they can find no scientific proof God exists. But when they die they get that proof because they are part of that resurrection they declared as nonsense all their life. How can they not believe...?

[lomarah]

We did certainly die. We died to love/trust in God. ("Let the DEAD bury the dead...") If we are not abiding in the vine, which is Christ, we are dead (Christ said, "I am the vine, you are the branches, if a man remains in me and I in him he will bear much fruit. Apart from me you can do nothing.")

As for eternal (or ABUNDANT life), that is not exactly what christendom has told us it is. What did Jesus say it was? Abundant life is to KNOW GOD. We died to that life because we did not (and do not) truly know/trust/love our Father. If we did we would not have eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge (and continue to do so).

As for rejecting Christ, many who claim to "accept" or "believe" in Christ do not truly know Him at all. ("Many will say to me Lord, Lord...")

And YET! Christ came to reverse all of that. ("I, if I be lifted up, will draw ALL men unto myself." "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and EVERY TONGUE WILL PRAISE GOD." "So that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW...")

And the best yet: "No longer will one teach his neighbor or his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord', for THEY SHALL ALL KNOW ME..." (Remember what Christ told us abundant life is? Yep, KNOWING GOD!!)


As for universalism being hostile to New Age thinking, there are many varying beliefs among "Christian Universalists" just as there are among "eternal Hell believing Christians". Personally, although there are some "half-truths" within New Age religion, much of it has a very weird feel/overtone to me. Any teaching that leaves out Christ, for me, is definitely not worth paying a whole lot of attention to. That does not, however, mean I am hostile toward New Agers! They are on the same journey as the rest of us, being drawn back up to Him. :)

[lomarah]

(PS. Sorry for the lack of verse referencing but please feel free to google each verse and the book/chapter will pop right up for you! My memory for what God says is sometimes great, but where He put it in the bible is often a different story.)

[ed]

Also New Age thinking promises that people can become like Gods knowing good and evil.   Is universalism hostile to New Age thinking, or Eastern religions?

People know good and evil without any New Age thinking.

There are some aspects of New Thought(New Age and New Thought are two different things) that I like.  It goes in a good direction with  metaphysics, love, service, godliness, ect..................

If new thought was enough why the need for Jesus Christ?

If Jesus Christ is indeed Lord of all, then New Age will submit all honor to that reign.

At comes down to an affirmation or a denial.

Either rout you decide on will have its consequences, and in the end all will be drawn to Jesus Christ.  It is all a matter of when you get on the band wagon!

.

[marie glen]

hi! new age and eastern religion helped bring me to Jesus many years ago, and perhaps kept me from believing the (pre-Christian) hell myth/blasphemy

I've come to think most indigenous and world religions and also 'spirituality' began on a profound truth or truths which were discovered.. and then added to, and,or taken from through the centuries (like even Christianity which  obviously lost some of the glory of its message and picked up some baggage these almost 2000 years of being made up of and handed down through human hands, the understanding that is)

But like others have said, all these will be drawn to Jesus, some in this age (chosen/elect) and some in the next.. why the difference? imo, because for a drama (truth drama) you need more than one character.. certainly not because we chose or the 'elect' are any superior, or inferior to any others..

Where does it say no repentance or chance to "believe" after death and the 2nd resurrection? only when Jesus told the pharisees unless they repented they would die in their sins, which imo, simply means they will rise still in their sins, an inferior - for a time - resurrection from the 1st when the elect put on immortality and incorruptability..

The ancient fall holy days prophecy (imo) his return/long 2nd advent - trumpets, day of atonement, tabernacles - when God Himself will now tabernacle with man on a made new earth..

the day of atonement was a national and group day of wailing and deep repentance..

Notice how it is only at the very end of rev chap 20 that is said "those not believing will go to the 2nd death the lof" - also if the days between the fall holy days represent years - 10 days between trumpets and day of atonement representing the 1000 year reign/millenium then the 5 days between Atonement and tabernacles would be 500 years.. a long day of judgment/review for aLL - the truth of the example of this life of wandering from God (imo) will be deeply etched and engraved upon eveRy heart, mind and psyche - the knowing that to differ from God's choices in any teeny tiny way is to become imperfect the opposite of God/Life/Perfection, hence, can only ever end in a self destructive wisp of smoke (apocalypse in its modern meaning of collapse/destruction). All will (imo) fully undderstand 'good from evil" which is also life from nonlife and true from untrue.
              :smile: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[Jason76]

I guess the problem comes in talking about "Death being thrown in the Lake of Fire (from Revelation)", when Satan falsely told Adam "You will not die.(from Genesis)"  So what is death, and what does it mean by death being thrown into the lake of fire?

[eaglesway]

IMO, the lake of fire consumes darkness. It is being suspended in the presence of our God who is a consuming fire until "Evry hidden thing is revealed". Since death is the consequence of sin, when all darkness is consumed, death will no longer exist- having been destroyed by light.

"And the light was the life of men and the darkness cannot overcome it"

[Shev]

I guess the problem comes in talking about "Death being thrown in the Lake of Fire (from Revelation)", when Satan falsely told Adam "You will not die.(from Genesis)"  So what is death, and what does it mean by death being thrown into the lake of fire?

"To be carnally minded is death". Adam has been alienated in his carnal mind from God, and that death spread to all men. Through Jesus Christ, life came to all men, His obedience proving mightier than the transgression of Adam. When we are lost in our carnality, the law of sin and death is at work in us. When we are illuminated by the Spirit, the revelation of Jesus Christ begins in, to and through us, and He destroys the carnal mind and the carnal mind "with the brightness of His coming".

The Father produces the divine nature in us through spiritual fire, His righteous judgments being measured into our lives, heating us up as liquid gold, so that the impurities may be skimmed off. It is telling that the first death is destroyed by the second death, as this shows the second death to be unlike the first, inasmuch as it counteracts it and brings it to naught.

So then, the first death, our carnality and bondage to the law of sin and death, and our alienation in our minds, is destroyed by the second death, the holy fire of God that purges us like gold.

Of course, for those who are judged and refined in this life and attain to the first resurrection, the second death has "no power over them".