it is so painful to talk with Eternal Torment or exclusive salvation believers

[anti_nietzsche]

Honestly, why do people believe in this eternal torment stuff? Life is painful enough, 4 years ago I lost my dad to an untimely death and my mother is old and I will probably loose her soon too. So why do other people, who call themselves christians too, have to add to my lot to say that my dad is in hell now for having been an atheist? Nobody can say such a thing. These people blow themselves up until they have a big head with many bible verses but they totally forget about pain, mercy and love. God brings healing and freedom from guilt and suffering, but ET believers contradict that by the hellfire beliefs that are themselves against the beautiful peace of God that transcends all reason.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Honestly, why do people believe in this eternal torment stuff? Life is painful enough, 4 years ago I lost my dad to an untimely death and my mother is old and I will probably loose her soon too. So why do other people, who call themselves christians too, have to add to my lot to say that my dad is in hell now for having been an atheist? Nobody can say such a thing. These people blow themselves up until they have a big head with many bible verses but they totally forget about pain, mercy and love. God brings healing and freedom from guilt and suffering, but ET believers contradict that by the hellfire beliefs that are themselves against the beautiful peace of God that transcends all reason.

I am sorry to hear that, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. I can completely sympathize with your situation because I have loved ones who haven't accepted Lord Jesus yet. I pray for them each and every night and of course for the salvation of all of humanity. Personally I agree with you, although the ET doctrine may get people to stop their bad habits, it can also drive people insane. If I hadn't learned of the possibility of Universal Salvation, I would have been driven to insanity by now.

As to why people believe in ET, there are verses in the Bible which imply ET. However, the Bible is not as vivid about it as "Hell testimonies" are. Also people believe in ET because that's what most of them were taught throughout their lives

[rosered]

Oh Bless you and yours Bro..

      and nice  prayer request Searching for Truth  :HeartThrob:

I was going though a lot in my twenties  and very excitable ,taking life to hard  and making foolish  mistakes ,I told him I was going crazy !!
  and just sat down with my Dad whom has since   went home    7 years now

He gave me some solid   thoughts I still value to this day and  share when able  ,


  He told me , Honey will all deal with mental illness   at some time in our lives , its just that some people do a better job of hiding it than others 

  and some how that helped me feel '' not so alone ''   and scared
  You know now I just take it to Jesus ,  just talk things out     and ask for His help and guidance   in these things
 
praying you  will have His peace  in your heart always

[anti_nietzsche]

I have the peace of God with me but I am afraid to talk to other christians because of the hellfire salvation thing. I would love to praise God for eternal life for sinners and jews and muslims and atheists too, but they go over my head and say only christians receive forgiveness. But if you examine them you see they make things only extra hard and you have to be squeaky clean morally to enter their club of salvation only when you are squeaky clean and that matters for salvation then morality looses its point because God is immoral to get down hard on the small and dirty. A human is so small compared to God, how can this giant step on him and say he is glorious for doing so? Rather God is a gentle Giant who rests on His mountain and takes us up into the palm of his hand where we can sleep and dance and eat and drink. And it is not like a mountain like Sinai, it is Mount Zion instead, the place of blessed hope and the New Jerusalem, the new city of God where anything is white and shining but not like a flash of lightning to kill someone but like warm morning light for all people because we are all LOVED by GOD!!!!

[eaglesway]

Beautiful post.

Yea, sometimes when you talk to adamant ETrs, you can really see the hate shining thru, but, "Forgive them Father, they don't kno what they are doing" is a prayer that, while not making an excuse, holds out hope that they will see the light as they are gathered into the ALL IN ALL, by one means or another, in this age or the next :o) LOLOL

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Beautiful post.

Yea, sometimes when you talk to adamant ETrs, you can really see the hate shining thru, but, "Forgive them Father, they don't kno what they are doing" is a prayer that, while not making an excuse, holds out hope that they will see the light as they are gathered into the ALL IN ALL, by one means or another, in this age or the next :o) LOLOL

I am starting to wonder if the adamant ETrs are the way they are is because that is their only motivation for serving God and to live a Holy life. They firmly believe that without the ET doctrine, there is no incentive to live a Holy life and that everyone will go on a sinning rampage. I admit, my fear for Hell did help me overcome some addictions in the past but like I said before, it made it difficult for me to sincerely love God as I do with my loved ones.

[Shev]

Beautiful post.

Yea, sometimes when you talk to adamant ETrs, you can really see the hate shining thru, but, "Forgive them Father, they don't kno what they are doing" is a prayer that, while not making an excuse, holds out hope that they will see the light as they are gathered into the ALL IN ALL, by one means or another, in this age or the next :o) LOLOL

I am starting to wonder if the adamant ETrs are the way they are is because that is their only motivation for serving God and to live a Holy life. They firmly believe that without the ET doctrine, there is no incentive to live a Holy life and that everyone will go on a sinning rampage. I admit, my fear for Hell did help me overcome some addictions in the past but like I said before, it made it difficult for me to sincerely love God as I do with my loved ones.

I agree, Searching. The logic of ET seems to be "If spouses would always forgive adultery, we would all cheat on our spouses!" My worry is that a relationship with Christ cannot be very deep if one would spiral off into a life of sin upon hearing the good news of His full atonement and subjection of all things to Himself in love. Why would we want to sin if we truly know Christ? The Spirit in us yearns to be free of every trace, spot, blemish and vestige of sin. Only fear can make someone avoid sin whilst secretly loving it.

[Lazarus Short]

I suppose like the rest of the folks on this forum, I have given a lot of thought as to why people cling so stubbornly to ET or ED.  I have concluded that the things we think and believe to be so important just do not enter into it for most - things like Scripture, correctness of translations, consistency of theology, the Character of God, or even what it real.  I think most of us here are Searchers, but most folks are Settlers, who will adopt whatever they are given, if it allows them to get on with their lives.  Such people take up the belief system they grow up with, whether Christianity, Islam, of Buddhism, and never question any of it.  Charles Fort called it Exclusionism, which involves the exclusion of any data contradicting the central thesis of the belief system.  Fort advocated Inclusionism, which states that a theory must include ALL the data, or it is useless.  You can see this working out in other fields here:  http://nexusilluminati.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/why-is-it-secret-that-human-giants-have.html  I am interested in ancient tech and ancient giants, but my point here is the intellectual or even anti-intellectual attitudes which govern the dissemination of information.  Maybe we need to awake peoples' sense of wonder before we argue Scripture and the rest...

[eaglesway]

I suppose like the rest of the folks on this forum, I have given a lot of thought as to why people cling so stubbornly to ET or ED.  I have concluded that the things we think and believe to be so important just do not enter into it for most - things like Scripture, correctness of translations, consistency of theology, the Character of God, or even what it real.  I think most of us here are Searchers, but most folks are Settlers, who will adopt whatever they are given, if it allows them to get on with their lives.  Such people take up the belief system they grow up with, whether Christianity, Islam, of Buddhism, and never question any of it.  Charles Fort called it Exclusionism, which involves the exclusion of any data contradicting the central thesis of the belief system.  Fort advocated Inclusionism, which states that a theory must include ALL the data, or it is useless.  You can see this working out in other fields here:  http://nexusilluminati.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/why-is-it-secret-that-human-giants-have.html  I am interested in ancient tech and ancient giants, but my point here is the intellectual or even anti-intellectual attitudes which govern the dissemination of information.  Maybe we need to awake peoples' sense of wonder before we argue Scripture and the rest...

Paul said God ordained that the gospel would be spread through the foolishness pf preaching/heralding/proclaiming. I think that sometimes we try to be the Holy SPirit for folks. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I think we have to trust God, announce the salvation/reconciliation/restoration of all and have our theology right for seekers or questioners who respond. The message of Christ is powerful in the spirit. It doesnt need our help so much as we need its help, if we believe God is commited to it(and of course He is)- we can trust that the one who causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will, will work with us if we proclaim the truth in love. Then, sometimes at a later date, the Holy Spirit will illuminate the scriptures we have used in our proclamation, and open the eyes of the reader Himself.

Jesus didnt really carry on debates with the Pharisees. He just spoke the truth, and usually in a way that wasnt all that plain or theological. Paul was more theological- but we have to remember he was writing to believers in a time where most ualready understood the gospel to be "the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets and wise men from of old."(Acts 3:19) That is the way they originally received it. They did not have the twisted thrology of 1800 years already engrained in their minds.  :2c:

[Shev]

:thumbsup:

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

I suppose like the rest of the folks on this forum, I have given a lot of thought as to why people cling so stubbornly to ET or ED.  I have concluded that the things we think and believe to be so important just do not enter into it for most - things like Scripture, correctness of translations, consistency of theology, the Character of God, or even what it real.  I think most of us here are Searchers, but most folks are Settlers, who will adopt whatever they are given, if it allows them to get on with their lives.  Such people take up the belief system they grow up with, whether Christianity, Islam, of Buddhism, and never question any of it.  Charles Fort called it Exclusionism, which involves the exclusion of any data contradicting the central thesis of the belief system.  Fort advocated Inclusionism, which states that a theory must include ALL the data, or it is useless.  You can see this working out in other fields here:  http://nexusilluminati.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/why-is-it-secret-that-human-giants-have.html  I am interested in ancient tech and ancient giants, but my point here is the intellectual or even anti-intellectual attitudes which govern the dissemination of information.  Maybe we need to awake peoples' sense of wonder before we argue Scripture and the rest...

Paul said God ordained that the gospel would be spread through the foolishness pf preaching/heralding/proclaiming. I think that sometimes we try to be the Holy SPirit for folks. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. I think we have to trust God, announce the salvation/reconciliation/restoration of all and have our theology right for seekers or questioners who respond. The message of Christ is powerful in the spirit. It doesnt need our help so much as we need its help, if we believe God is commited to it(and of course He is)- we can trust that the one who causes all things to work according to the counsel of His will, will work with us if we proclaim the truth in love. Then, sometimes at a later date, the Holy Spirit will illuminate the scriptures we have used in our proclamation, and open the eyes of the reader Himself.

Jesus didnt really carry on debates with the Pharisees. He just spoke the truth, and usually in a way that wasnt all that plain or theological. Paul was more theological- but we have to remember he was writing to believers in a time where most ualready understood the gospel to be "the restoration of all things spoken of by all the prophets and wise men from of old."(Acts 3:19) That is the way they originally received it. They did not have the twisted thrology of 1800 years already engrained in their minds.  :2c:

Amen to that. However, I do suspect that some ET'ers deep down believe in UR but will never openly admit it due to fear of being called names or due to fear of contradicting the passages that they think imply ET.

[eaglesway]

 :iagree: