I love Obama!

[Shev]

Greetings to all!

I have noticed - as I am sure you all have - that one always ends up resembling the God one follows. To me, one of the greatest practical evidences of UR is that it frees believers to behave and think how Jesus Christ said we should behave and think.

Those who follow the false god of condemnation (who is more Molech than anything else, it seems), find it much harder to love all men, because they are conforming to the image of their god - hence the responses to UR such as "how could Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot be saved?" that betray the idea of true unconditional love as being an impossibility. I don't say this in any kind of mean spirit - I have known many dear brethren who wrestle with the agony of the two sided god they follow, and find it so hard to walk with a sense of spiritual balance as a result. The false ideas of salvation which have hamstrung believers for so long, lead to the inevitable contradiction, of "God so loved the world....until their fleshly heart stopped beating, at which point He grew very wroth."

Without God's love in Christ being truly revealed TO us, how can it truly be revealed THROUGH us? How can we walk in that love towards our enemies of which Christ spoke, without first having a stupendous, ever increasing revelation of just how much He first loved them, even us He first loved us?

I titled this with the reference to Obama because he appears to me to be one of the most casually hated men by professing Christians. I have often said that I have heard so much abuse of him by those who name the name of Christ (even to the point of wishing him dead!), but never once heard someone focus on the fact that Obama's spirit was given by God, Christ's blood was shed for him, and he is dearly beloved and indeed ransomed by the divine Father of us all. To me this man is almost a touchstone of how much people really are able to love their enemies. I don't doubt for a minute he is an evil man in the flesh - as is every carnal man that does not walk in the Spirit - and to love him does not negate, or wink at, the deeds he does. But to love someone is to see them in the eternal realty of Christ's abundant life, and to know their sin has been fully paid for is to confess that the blood of Jesus has infinitely more value and power than every sickening sin ever conceived or acted out.

To hate anyone ties us to being earthly minded, wallowing in the mire of the petty politics and cruel hypocrisies of this world instead of setting our mind on things above, where we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies. Hate is like ankle weights that keep pulling us downwards, bending our thoughts in the hopeless trajectory of the flesh, instead of releasing us into the vibrant life of the mind of Christ.

Those of us who have seen the transcendent glory of God's truly unconditional, powerful, never ending love, are therefore ambassadors of this self same love, as we grow into the image of the One who loves all without partiality, and certainly does not grind His teeth at the Obama's of this world.

So with all that being said, I say again....I love Obama!

[micah7:9]

 :eek:

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Obama is byfar the worst President we ever had. He has divided this country in many ways. But despite all that, I don't want him to be tortured for all eternity. I will continue to pray for Obama's salvation along with the salvation of all mankind. I also pray that God has mercy on this country as well.

[Seth]

I don't know if I would call him evil. I guess it depends on what manner you mean that. But I agree with the sentiment. We should love our neighbor and even those who we would consider an enemy. 

:thumbsup:

[anti_nietzsche]

What's so wrong about Obama? He tried to give America healthcare for the poor and needy, which is a good thing in my book. It's cool that because of UR you dont hate him, but I wouldn't even know why to hate him in the first place.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

What's so wrong about Obama? He tried to give America healthcare for the poor and needy, which is a good thing in my book. It's cool that because of UR you dont hate him, but I wouldn't even know why to hate him in the first place.

He has made our country weaker and Obamacare forces religious institutions to pay for contraception/abortions which is a violation of conscience. Make no mistake, Obama is bringing judgement upon America. On a side note, are all Universal Salvation believers liberals?

[eaglesway]

Our government is corrupt on both sides of the aisle.

[jabcat]

What's so wrong about Obama? He tried to give America healthcare for the poor and needy, which is a good thing in my book. It's cool that because of UR you dont hate him, but I wouldn't even know why to hate him in the first place.

He has made our country weaker and Obamacare forces religious institutions to pay for contraception/abortions which is a violation of conscience. Make no mistake, Obama is bringing judgement upon America. On a side note, are all Universal Salvation believers liberals?

Not this one.  I agree with you.  Evil, liar, fraud - a byproduct of many's delusion and blindness, IMO.  Should I love and pray for him?  You bet.  Do I count him a wolf in sheep's clothing, a destroyer?  You bet.  (also, I'm not sure we can know that so many believers 'hate' him.  Maybe they detest his behavior, his lies, and oppose him vehemently as they see through him for what he really is - but that's not NECESSARILY hate [although some may]).

i do agree, most of government is corrupt at this point, whatever the party. 

i don't know if we can choose the least of the evils, or best off staying out of it..

i guess the point of the OP is to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, and shev stated he did not "approve" of obama...the title of the OP has apparently pushed some buttons though :o

[Shev]

Interesting responses, thank you. I did not intend to casually start an incendiary debate (I know the gentleman in question is rather a hot button topic), but rather show that Obama is an interesting touch stone for the practical aspect of loving one's enemies (at least as far as Americans go). I do genuinely believe a lot of those who name the Christ hate him, as I have heard so much verbal abuse directed his way, that any love would be lip service only. Even those who are adamant they love him, seem to do so "holding their nose", so to speak. Hardly the heart cry of "forgive him Lord, he knows not what he does!"

But rather than the man himself, my point is that it is one thing to believe in the transcendent love of God in the abstract, and another thing entirely on a practical level. Irrespective of what Obama (or any evil man) does on earth, they are not truly hindering the kingdom that we are citizens and ambassadors of, nor do they have any sin which has not been atoned for. To give in to the temptation to hate a man is far more damaging spiritually than any political move he can make in exercising his limited authority over our earthly lives.

Of course all such men will be judged, but mercy will triumph in and over judgment, as always, in the fullness of the ages. In the meantime, should we not be in awe of the holy, sacred, powerful blood that cleanses such a one even as it has cleansed us?

[jabcat]

yes  :thumbsup:  (it will, when every knee bows and every tongue confesses Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father)

[eaglesway]

Does anyone really think President Obama is a bigger liar than George W. Bush was? I am not sure where anyone sees the evidence of a distinction towards righteousness in either of the "house divided"(Republican vs Democrat) we call "leaders".

[jabcat]

I'd probably say yes John, I do believe there's a greater degree of evil currently present.  But again, it's also spread around plenty too.

[jabcat]

(i'm not saying bush didn't lie too and/or have perfectly pure motives.  i just think we're experiencing something right now [various things in varying degrees, the likes of which we've never seen before])  .. that's a  :2c:, but i believe it :)

further down a road we don't wanna go..maybe even passed a tipping point, that will end in destruction now with no return except for God's miraculous restoration...i wonder what will happen in the meantime...but in the process, we are to trust God and love and pray for others, including our enemies..no small task

[anti_nietzsche]

Abortion is not an issue as the spirit is breath and so a baby is only getting a soul at the moment of breathing, which means after birth, until that a baby is just flesh. Contraception is not an issue either, who doesn't use it anyway? Healthcare is good for all, who would oppose someone instituting it, that's insane and evil. Don't hate Obama at all, instead try to support him somehow. A president is a president, to be honored...

[Seth]

Interesting responses, thank you. I did not intend to casually start an incendiary debate (I know the gentleman in question is rather a hot button topic), but rather show that Obama is an interesting touch stone for the practical aspect of loving one's enemies (at least as far as Americans go). I do genuinely believe a lot of those who name the Christ hate him, as I have heard so much verbal abuse directed his way, that any love would be lip service only.

:iagree:

The words "I love Obama" probably provokes a touchy response, because it could translate to "I agree with Obama" which I think you clarified anyway. But I understand what you mean. Loving someone doesn't mean you have to agree with him. I personally try to keep out of politics because I believe it is corrosive to my walk. It creates an "us vs them" mentality within me and creates a barrier to what I believe is a higher purpose for God's people in this world. I have opinions and they come out once in a while, but I try to be careful about that.

I see Obama the same way I see president Bush. They are men. Nothing more. It's a difficult thing to be a human being, and I just see people dealing with it as best they know how, and that makes me love Obama too and Bush.

[Seth]

But I will say one thing, I don't believe America is anymore special to God than any other country. I am completely over such nationalism . One thing I have picked up along the way, from the Old Testament, is that there are two kinds of peoples, Jew or Gentile. In the New Covenant, The Lord has chosen to define Israel through Christ as the cornerstone. I think the peculiar people that Peter spoke of are God's top priority. He is building a temple under everyone's noses and I believe the elect, whoever they are in the end, are his chosen nation, "not of this world."

[ed]

He is building a temple under everyone's noses and I believe the elect, whoever they are in the end, are his chosen nation, "not of this world."

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

:thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

 :thumbsup:

[WhiteWings]

What's so wrong about Obama? He tried to give America healthcare for the poor and needy, which is a good thing in my book. It's cool that because of UR you dont hate him, but I wouldn't even know why to hate him in the first place.

Why to hate him.... my answer would be: Wallstreet puppet.  :2c:

[sheila]

abortion not an issue....disagreee..........iftwo men fighting 'accidently' cause a woman

to lose her child in the womb....there were  judgements under the law. Let alone

  purposely killing the unborn child.  the spirit of life is the breath...and it is maintained

  through respiration at deliverance.

...as far as I'm concerned...it is the same as saying those who receive the 'token' of

  the Holy spirit...are not alive to God because they have not the fullness ,yet.

[micah7:9]

When a person writes an auto biography they write of how they think what they have seen and see. What they like, what influenced the thinking, who influenced the thinking, what they want to accomplish. Well, read obama's books. The man is very much opposed to the success of the idea, ideals, and morality that the experiment that began.... the united States of America.
Being an American and a veteran who still has a pretty good memory at 70 find it very difficult to see what good has been accomplished by this man. As far as his health plan, if you are not deaf and blind, it is a simple plan for the government to control the masses.
Since around the 1900's we started having some pretty lousy POTUS's so just start with obama and count backwards once in a while you will hit a pleasant time[not to often tho] my statements are just an opinion from my carnal side.
As a believer in Jesus Christ I pray for him and really try to mean it, I am instructed to, I need to, I pray that I pray correctly.
Php 3:20  For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--
:HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[bushy]

Thankfully I can truly say that when I discovered the salvation of all, my intense dislike for Obama and Clinton sort of melted away. Also I used to think Bush was the picture of patriotism and that bubble has been popped. But now I know along with Nebuchadnezzar that the Most High God is ruler over the realm of mankind and He sets over it whoever He wishes.

[Shev]

My point about Obama is not just that we should pray for him dutifully, but love him in the same way we love everybody. The One who first loved us and was crucified for us while we were yet sinners, dwells in us, so we have a love in us that would motivate us to die for Obama should the occasion require it. The prodigal son was loved passionately by his father while he was in the midst of dreadful sin. Of course, he had to repent to perceive and enjoy the love of his father, but his father loved him all along, and watched the horizon eagerly.

Again, this is not all about Obama - I actually do not care about politics one whit, and don't vote - but rather to use him as a touchstone for people that many believers find hard to love. To me he is an effective way of gaging the practicality of universal love, not just the generality or the abstract. To me, to truly believe in the salvation of all is to believe that God passionately, transcendently loves every single member of humankind more than we can even comprehend, and that this same love dwells in us. It does not negate judgment, but it looks at all men through the reality of the Spirit, not the flesh.

On the subject of the affairs, events, and politics of this world, it occurred to me the other day that if one tried to gage the current events of New Testament times based on the words Jesus spoke, or from the epistles, one would be almost totally in the dark. No mention of who is in power, what wars are being fought, what the latest news is from Rome. In other words, it is all about spiritual realities, not earthly. The only inkling we get of events of those times are from the narratives in the gospels and Acts that are purely giving background to the main narrative. So there is no outrage over Nero or any of the other evil dictators, only admonitions to respect and honor those in authority, even if they are bad masters. Again, the thrust is always spiritual, setting the mind on things above and spiritual laws.

[micah7:9]

Very good.  :dsunny: Romans 13

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

Love is harder to understand than doctrine, because it must happen by the suppressing of the flesh which "lusteth against" the Spirit. We are called to love, but it's a daily walk. That's why I agree with you about the "lip service" thing. Christians will say that they love Obama because they have to. Otherwise they know they will be contrary to the scripture. So they will say it, without any intention of doing it, probably because they don't know what it means to love someone they believe deserves their hate. I can't say I fully understand it, but I am getting there.