The holy land

[gregoryfl]

I know a lot is emphasized by believers concerning the holy city, Jerusalem, as picturing the dwelling place of God...the physical shadow cast from the heavenly reality. There is much more however of the shadow, I believe, which includes, not just the holy city, but the entire holy land, the land promised to Abraham, as a place set apart by God, and as picturing in shadow form heavenly realities, realities in which God is present. I personally do not confine the presence of God to the holy city alone, but to the entirety of the holy land. (And for you readers who might take what I am saying in the wrong way, no, I am not saying that he is only found in the holy land, and not present everywhere, nor that he is only present in Jerusalem, for we know that creation does not contain God, but the other way around).

So, if this be true, then in thinking and meditating on all that makes up the promised land, things in the heavenlies, aside from Jerusalem, what other areas making up the promised land do you find spiritual lessons in?

[joeteekay]

Thank you for starting anew thread. Refreshing.
Nothing is directly said about he holy land in the NT. But let us engage in discussion.
Much is said about Jerusalem, a word that has deep spiritual meaning.

Gal_4:25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal_4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

[gregoryfl]

Ok, thanks Joe. That is quite correct, that Jerusalem is pretty much what we picture since it is most often spoken about. But here is another example, although I am not asking for us to confine this to something referenced in the 1st century writings:

What about Gehenna? Although not in Jerusalem, it was in the holy land. And what about the Dead Sea? What is the significance, if any, of them being part of the land promised to Abraham? What lessons can we learn from them?

[Seth]

One lesson I can learn from it, is that not all that is within the holy land is holy of itself. Satan was in the holy land, and so also demons. I think this reminds me of how Noah carried beasts with him in the Ark which is the picture of our salvation. Though the beasts represent the salvation of Jew and Gentile, I see also that when we become babes in Christ, in this Ark of Christ's body, we carry beasts within us too. I am not sure if that is where you are leading, but as an open question, that's one of the lessons I take.

[gregoryfl]

Thanks Seth. I do have thoughts of my own on this, but yes, it is an open question. Not trying to lead anyone in this. Just offering it for anyone who has thought of these things and has something to share for our edification.

[eaglesway]

The earthly Jerusalem is like Abraham's maid and Ishmael, bearing children of bondage and contention- according to Paul. The heavenly Jerusalem is Sarah, bearing seed by promise and faith freely- sons and daughters of God by promise and inheritance with Jesus Christ, children of Abraham both Jew and Gentile.

[Lazarus Short]

The Jerusalem-that-now-is is situated on ground that drank up the blood of Jesus.  Does this Blood still cry out to father God from that ground, as Abel's did?  Will the present-day inhabitants of that city some day answer for that Blood?  Is the "Holy Land" now polluted?  Is it still Holy?  :Chinscratch:

[micah7:9]

The Jerusalem-that-now-is is situated on ground that drank up the blood of Jesus.  Does this Blood still cry out to father God from that ground, as Abel's did?  Will the present-day inhabitants of that city some day answer for that Blood?  Is the "Holy Land" now polluted?  Is it still Holy?  :Chinscratch:

Gruff, yet pointed. :2c:

[eaglesway]

The Jerusalem-that-now-is is situated on ground that drank up the blood of Jesus.  Does this Blood still cry out to father God from that ground, as Abel's did?  Will the present-day inhabitants of that city some day answer for that Blood?  Is the "Holy Land" now polluted?  Is it still Holy?  :Chinscratch:

A  partial hardening has come upon Israel until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Beloved for the sake of the forefathers. Enemies for the sake of the gospel.

[micah7:9]

I would be probably looked on as silly oops foolish when I say that I am a part of the Holy Land and all who walk in the Faith of Jesus are the Holy Land.
I, me, personally dont't put much stock in a nation being the Holy Land when that deny Jesus Christ. I perhaps will be looked on as absurd. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[Seth]

I agree, Micah  :thumbsup:

As God said, "Israel is my firstborn son." (Exodus 4:22)

[joeteekay]

Zec 2:9  For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me.
Zec 2:10  Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the LORD.
Zec 2:11  And many nations shall be joined to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
Zec 2:12  And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
Zec 2:13  Be silent, O all flesh, before the LORD: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation.

[micah7:9]

Rev 21:2  and I, John, saw the holy city--new Jerusalem--coming down from God out of the heaven, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband;

[gregoryfl]

Here is one I found regarding Mount Hermon:

BIBLICAL Horizons, No. 16
August, 1990
Copyright 1990, Biblical Horizons

In an earlier article in Biblical Horizons , while examining the biblical symbolism of dew, I noted the parallel in Psalm 133 between the dew upon Mount Hermon and the oil poured upon the head of Aaron. Both the dew of Hermon and the oil of ordination are compared to the pleasantness of unity among the brethren. Recently, I have learned a few more details about Hermon itself, details which give additional richness to the parallelism of Psalm 133. Essentially, I wish to answer the question, Why is oil on the high priest like dew on Mount Hermon? Why not like the dew on Mount Sinai or Mount Tabor? (Psalm 133:3 also says that the unity of the brethren is like dew on Zion. This is a more obvious image, given the associations of Mount Zion.)

The answer becomes apparent when we learn some facts about Mount Hermon. It is located in far north of Israel, north of Dan and east of Tyre, nearly as far north as Damascus. It is one of the highest points in the region. Significantly, it is snow-capped, and the dew that descends on its heights is in marked contrast to the aridity of the surrounding areas. Additionally, Hermon is a major source of the Jordan River. When the ice caps thaw, water from Hermon flows down to water the whole land.

This suggests several biblical-theological connections. First, the waters flowing through the land from Mount Hermon reminds us of the four rivers flowing from Eden to the four corners of the earth. Second, this association with Eden makes it highly appropriate for the Psalmist to compare the oil of Aaron's ordination with the dew of Hermon. Just as the oil flows from Aaron's head down over his garments, so also the dew of Hermon flows down throughout the land. Aaron is Israel's point of contact with Paradise: Israel enjoys the benefits of Aaron's ordination and access to the Holy of Holies, just as they enjoy the life-giving waters that flow from Hermon. The waters of Hermon refresh the land just as the Spirit, of which the oil is symbolic, refreshes those who are in union with the anointed one.

Another dimension to this symbolism is found in Matthew 16:13-20. Hermon is not mentioned in that passage, but Caesarea Philippi (modern Baniyas, Syria) was located at the foot of Hermon. In addition to the geographic connection, several details suggest the possibility that Psalm 133 provides part of the theological background for the incident recorded in Matthew 16:13-20. Peter's confession is that Jesus is the "Christ," the anointed one, which recalls, among other things, the anointing of Aaron in Psalm 133:2. Moreover, Jesus speaks of building a new assembly, which would imply a new priesthood. The unity of this new assembly will be guaranteed by the True Anointed One, just as the priest united the Old Covenant Church.

More speculatively, we might find in Matthew 16 a connection between the Paradise imagery of Hermon and the fact that the Church is the seed form of the New Heavens and New Earth. Christ is the Greater Aaron, and the Spirit Who anointed Him without measure has been poured out upon His Church, His Mount Hermon. And from the Church it flows to the four corners of the earth.

[Tony N]

"for we know that creation does not contain God, but the other way around."

Scripture please.

gregoryfl wrote: So, if this be true, then in thinking and meditating on all that makes up the promised land, things in the heavenlies, aside from Jerusalem, what other areas making up the promised land do you find spiritual lessons in?

The springs from which we drink deeply of God's refreshing spirit.
The mountains which speak of God's majesty.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

I believe all the events that are going on in Israel right now are prophetic. We must pray for Israel and do everything in our power to help them. Nations will be judged by their loyalty towards Israel. If you wish to donate money or find out what materials they need, check the link below. Hopefully our Lord will have mercy on America if enough people donate

http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/07/25/see-the-list-of-items-the-israel-defense-forces-have-asked-mercury-one-to-supply/


"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." Genesis 12:3

[gregoryfl]

"for we know that creation does not contain God, but the other way around."

Scripture please.

I will share one more point which I think everyone can agree on, even though there be differences of understanding in our earthly experience.

Solomon spoke of, not only the heaven we see above, but also the heaven of heavens, not being able to contain God, which the ancients understood to mean that all creation is in God, like a womb inside a mother:

But will God in very deed dwell on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens can't contain you; how much less this house that I have built!
(1Ki 8:27)

Now from man's experience, they could argue with Solomon saying, "Of course he dwells on the earth...he is dwelling in the most holy place is he not?" And they would be correct, but that does not mean Solomon was not correct. They both would be, it is all a matter of perspective. One doesn't discount the other.

Speaking of the Word, before becoming flesh, John wrote that everything that is created was created in the Word:

Everything existed by his hand and without him not even one [thing] existed. That which existed in him was life and the life was the light of men.
(Joh 1:3-4 MGI)

[eaglesway]

I am reminded of Hosea. Gomer played the harlot, but was brought back to him in chains, up for sale.

Hosea 3:1 Then said the Lord unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the Lord toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine.

2 So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley:

3 And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee.

4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and without teraphim:

5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the Lord their God, and David their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the latter days.

Hosea 5:15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

[marie glen]

I love a good quiz! and this reminds me of a quiz.. (I don't know why!)

I think, for instance, the dead sea, with surrounding Sodom and Gomorrah which Jude wrote "is an example of eternal hell fire, the smoke of which rises up for ever and ever.." The memory of, that is.. that to wander from God, who is Life, itself (surely? who/what else could/would be the spark of life!? "In the beginning, God..")

I mean, is it flaming there now? no it is mounds of dust and ashes, and the dead sea is, dead.. it's interesting to me too, that it's below sea level.. it's low.. Was the dead sea always dead? or was it the 'brimstone' (thermo-nuclear?) of Sodom and Gomorrah that made it that way?

The boundaries of the New Jerusalem in the Book of Revelation when it comes to the made new Earth, do they follow the Holy Land boundaries? or are they larger still?

And Gehenna.. I also take as the same thing.. that for ever not forgotten lesson, that to wander from God (in any teeny, tiny way) can only ever result in death!! Nonlife.. so don't do it! I believe, is our (man & angel's) eternal foundational lesson. "In the Holy Land" because it is forever true and an eternal principle, and meant to be never (ever) forgotten.. That's how I would think of it.
    :) God bless!

...and amen, like the lesson of Gomer.. we are to be betrothed to One.. and not unfaithful..

[marie glen]

"for we know that creation does not contain God, but the other way around."

Scripture please.

...in Him all things have their being.. "In Him we live and breathe and have our being" or also, just logic? I can't help but think...

The springs from which we drink deeply of God's refreshing spirit.
The mountains which speak of God's majesty.

:thumbsup: :banana:

[Lazarus Short]

I believe all the events that are going on in Israel right now are prophetic. We must pray for Israel and do everything in our power to help them. Nations will be judged by their loyalty towards Israel. If you wish to donate money or find out what materials they need, check the link below. Hopefully our Lord will have mercy on America if enough people donate

http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/07/25/see-the-list-of-items-the-israel-defense-forces-have-asked-mercury-one-to-supply/


"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." Genesis 12:3

The "you" in Genesis 12:3 refers to Abraham and his descendants.  The vast majority of Jews in "Israel" are not even Shemites, but descendants of Japheth, through the Turks and Kazars.  Are you really suggesting that we support a regime which persecutes Palestinians, some of whom are Christian, commits war crimes in Gaza, and holds the whole world hostage with its semi-secret nukes?  Shall I quote from the Revelation, say 2:9 & 3:9?  Let bad theology not find a home here...

[micah7:9]

I believe all the events that are going on in Israel right now are prophetic. We must pray for Israel and do everything in our power to help them. Nations will be judged by their loyalty towards Israel. If you wish to donate money or find out what materials they need, check the link below. Hopefully our Lord will have mercy on America if enough people donate

http://www.glennbeck.com/2014/07/25/see-the-list-of-items-the-israel-defense-forces-have-asked-mercury-one-to-supply/


"I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." Genesis 12:3

The "you" in Genesis 12:3 refers to Abraham and his descendants.  The vast majority of Jews in "Israel" are not even Shemites, but descendants of Japheth, through the Turks and Kazars.  Are you really suggesting that we support a regime which persecutes Palestinians, some of whom are Christian, commits war crimes in Gaza, and holds the whole world hostage with its semi-secret nukes?  Shall I quote from the Revelation, say 2:9 & 3:9?  Let bad theology not find a home here...

:thumbsup:

[sheila]

not one jot or tittle will fail to be fulfilled. Genesis 9;27 may God extend the territory

  of Japheth..may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,and may Canaan be his slave.