Hebrews 6:4-6 States that if you mess up you cant return?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:....We are saved, we are being saved, we shall be saved. Outer court/spirit salvation, inner court/soul salvation, Holy of Holies/body salvation, ie. we wait for the redemption of our bodies.

Salvation is an active verb as well as a noun, that denotes progression, just like a seed becomes a baby, becomes a teenager, becomes a mature adult. Blessings....

[Seth]

:cloud9: My  :2c:....We are saved, we are being saved, we shall be saved. Outer court/spirit salvation, inner court/soul salvation, Holy of Holies/body salvation, ie. we wait for the redemption of our bodies.

Salvation is an active verb as well as a noun, that denotes progression, just like a seed becomes a baby, becomes a teenager, becomes a mature adult. Blessings....

:iagree:

No tree comes up and out from the dark earth fully formed.

[sheila]

ttp....if you see the Holy spirit as the 'seed'/last Adam become quickening spirit..........and faith in

  Christ exercized..resulting in Holy spirit being poured out on the dead man[sown in corruption]

  then you can see..the Holy seed[spirit] producing after it's kind[works of the Father] and

that seed producingafter it's kind in the midst of corruption[our sinful flesh/body undergoing this death]  begin ruling in the midst of your enemies]

  the parable of the seed sown...along the path,over-run with weeds,eaten up by birds..or

on 'good' soil...shows the adverse/ corrupting influences that hinder the fullness of that seed.

      when we are held too closely by the powers of darkness..an iron rod will shatter our

  clay vessels like a potter...and release the seed inside it.........[picture a seed encased in a large

hard clay dirtclod being broken up/shattered/hard stony soil.

     

[thetruthprospector]

Colossians 1:22 Interesting.  Does not this say That if I in the past we were  alienated and enemies in our minds? Past tense. And now he hath reconciled. Past tense (aorist active indicative means a one time event in the past or does it?) I beleive I have been reconciled "In the body of his flesh through death", One time deal, period. He was my substitute as well as the substitute of all the world sins. He paid the price. Now I can go out and do my heroine. http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/laughing7.gif

But why would any one want to? and what is the goal of the high calling in Christ? To present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight?
is not this a process, growth?  But what is this hope? I wish I had a clear picture of what I am suffering for to make it worth it. OR what I may have to suffer for.

Col 1:27 "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"
I wish I could understand this better.   IF I sin in my flesh and grieve the holy spirit is it not the Christ trapped in my body being force to witness sin that is my conscience?  Not that I am looking for excuses to sin, but I don't know what I will be like tomorrow. It was nice having the false security I geuss. I really do not want to sin but I am weak. Who shall deliver from this body of death.

Col1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" Is not this word "eige" used five times is this not "since"  If this is a definite or a conditional if is very important. 

I am wrestling with my flesh daily and often failing.  Who shall deliver me from this body of death? Also what are wicked works, but every thing we do walking in the flesh. Are some sins worse than others are their degrees? or is it just in the judgement of men that some are worse than others?

Philipians 2:12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

If God is in you how can you stop God who is all powerful to work out your salvation by obeying? Is not Christ grieved when we don't

Jude 1:20 "But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,"




Now

[Seth]

Colossians 1:22 Interesting.  Does not this say That if I in the past we were  alienated and enemies in our minds? Past tense. And now he hath reconciled. Past tense (aorist active indicative means a one time event in the past or does it?) I beleive I have been reconciled "In the body of his flesh through death", One time deal, period. He was my substitute as well as the substitute of all the world sins. He paid the price. Now I can go out and do my heroine. http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/Smileys/Lots_O_Smileys/laughing7.gif

Colossians 1
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Remember, the ministry is not just that God reconciled through his death. It's also, "be YE reconciled to God." We can be enemies in our minds through wicked works, even though God is not our enemy.

IF we continue in the faith, we will cease to be enemies of God through wicked works because this is what Grace causes:

Titus 2
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing (paiduo - chastening)us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age , 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Grace causes people, through chastening, to do good works. To "deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age." Those are WORKS! And if grace causes those things to occur, then nobody who has the seed of Christ can continue in sin, because they are growing in grace.

This is what I believe it means when it says:

Romans 5:10
For if, while we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

Nobody was saved from heroin abuse by his death. We are saved by his LIFE (the spiritual life of the Holy Ghost), the GRACE that causes men to be saved from sin.

[Ross]

Consider this statement made by Paul;

1 Cor 15;10 " But by God's grace I am what I am, and His grace towards me was not ineffective. However, I worked more than any of them, YET NOT I BUT GOD'S GRACE THAT WAS IN ME."

The flesh is desperately wicked. God made us and knows that. Christ paid for us. That plan was put into action before the world began. So they KNEW Adam and Eve would sin. No where does there state a threat of eternal separation to them.

1 Cor 15;22,23   " For just as in Adam ALL dies, so IN Christ will All be made alive BUT EACH IN HIS OWN ORDER."

In an army there are particular scouts appointed to go ahead and secure a position and report back. They are specifically trained for that job and report only to the general. The rest of the army do not even know the mission until they are told.
Christ only told twelve and was then spotted after the resurrection by a few particular folk.

There is also the concept that all had denied Him, even Peter, before the resurrection so that no flesh can claim any part of the things to come.

Too many "prophets" today and through the ages are trying to promote self-efforts.
We are told to take up the cross daily- seems to be telling us there is no personal effort, all relies on the work of Christ. To me this removes all sense of failure for the dumb things I do.
Do I then just carry on regardless and deliberately indulge myself?
Far from that.
Knowing how much Christ paid for us all and the truth of the coming ages for a glorious future inspires positive love for ALL since ALL will be freed. We are not to cast stones at each other but rather encourage each other.
We are the living work of Christ saved by His faith.
Eph 4;4-7 " There is ONE body [Christ]
and One spirit
just as you were CALLED to ONE hope at your calling;
One Lord
One Faith [ Christ's faith]
One baptism [ Christ's baptism]
One God and Father of ALL, Who is above ALL, and through ALL and in ALL.
Now grace WAS GIVEN TO EACH ONE OF US  according to a measure of the Christ's gift."

Col 1;13 " HE has rescued us from the domain of darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son He loves."

What you are suffering is to show consequences of action and to expose right from wrong- good from evil. We correct our children for mistakes they make, but they are still our children no matter what. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The best way to learn is from experience. You are going through those experiences. To be aware of them is the start of His correction plan and to be brought to the point of total reliance on Christ. Just like a child relies on his dad, so we rely on Christ.

[Seth]

Here is what I think it means to rely on Christ:

Philippians 2
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out (katergazomai - labor outwardly) your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 14Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

To me, that's total dependance on Christ, and works have everything to do with it. But it has nothing to do with self working. Notice how it says the way to be "blameless" is to do things without murmurings and disputings, and without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation?

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  Ross..

[eaglesway]

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV 

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit,  (5)  and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,  (6)  and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt


I read this on a site online; any opinons?

If you look closely at the list of experiences, you are looking at a believer who has been very deep into the word and the spirit who turns away from God. This doesnt mean just any believer who has a rough patch or whatever.  It would be someone who has walked in "sonship" and turned against God. Such a person would have to reach a point of having contempt for the cross- hard to imagine, but it happens. It appears that such a person can only be reclaimed through aionian correction.

[Seth]

Yes, there is a correlation in 2Peter 2 where he is talking about "natural brute beasts" who have pleasure in unrighteousness and make it their lifestyle and pursuit. That's different from an imperfect walk which we all have.

[eaglesway]

I think the verse in Jude about the angels who left there proper abode and are bound in "aidos"(age lasting) chains also applies. Mostly, I think these are servants of Christ who get trapped in pride after accomplishing great works. I think few people realize how deadly taking credit for the works of the Holy Spirit and the understanding of the Word can be to faith. Pride takes one into the flesh, and in the flesh- anything can happen.

"The one who knew his masters will and did not do it will be beaten with many stripes"