Key to Revelation

[saintwalee]

Key, in the sense as a device to open something that is locked, not so much as to start something, such as a car, although that could probably apply as well.

Revelation, to see something that was previously hidden.

I want to open that which is hidden, in this case, the juxtaposition of salvation.

Non-UR proponents say that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ will be thrown into Hell and tormented forever.

UR proponents of course say that all of God's children are saved.

Jesus proposes this; "Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. .

So, which is it? Are some eternally damned and some have eternal life?

IMO, This is the Key:

Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Two Bodies in one:
1Co_15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

As for the flesh:
1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

As for the Spirit:
Col 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

For me, when I look at all of scripture from this point of view, it opens up many, many things.

Again, in summary; we are a manifold being, that of flesh and that of spirit. The Fleshly man is damned, the Spiritual man is heavenly and is eternal.

IMO, This is the good news! We are all God's children, not some who are elect, or who have decided to believe, but everyone! This kind of news is easy to share and easy to receive. When we believe, we awaken our consiousness to this revelation, that God is in us, Emmanuel (God with us), however, it also is the revelation that our flesh is damned; but that is great news, who wants to be in bondage to sin forever!

Truly, Happy Independence Day!  :dsunny:

[ed]

I have more to do with those who say that some are saved and most are annihilated.

That was the progression for me.  When I was very young I believed in ET.  As I learned of the love of God I thought it more in line with love and mercy that the unsaved be annihilated..........mercifully of course.

I was very blessed to learn of UR.  I think that in the information age, this version of the Christian faith will gain ground in leaps and bounds.

I'm getting into the book of Revelation more and more, and find it to be a blessing if you are grounded in a faith that all will be eventually saved.  It is written to the believer for the purpose of unveiling the King, Jesus Christ, in the very life of the believer.

:banana:

[Lazarus Short]

ed, I also went from ET to ED to UR.  Reincarnation/reincarceration never gained much traction with me.

[saintwalee]

Lazarus Short,

You reference reincarnation. Is that what it appears that I was presenting?

By no means did I mean that. I do not think that we have an eternal spirit and go body hopping throughout all time!

No, no, no. What I am saying is that Christ is the Seed of Promise and that He has been in mankind from Adam on.

Let me restate: Col 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

I do believe that everyone already has Christ in them, as stated; "but Christ is all, and IN ALL". I personally don't believe we receive Christ (the anointed One) when we are "born again", but rather that Christ in us (Emanuel) is/was raised when Jesus overcame and condemned sin within us. I do hold that we receive the Holy Spirit, who communes with us and is our comforter and teacher.

I know that this perspective may be of controversy.

Again, I am in no way proposing reincarnation! :eek:

[Lazarus Short]

Saintwalee:

Hey, don't have a cow - I added my reincarnation/reincarceration comment as a final thought, as it is just one more theory on our fate after death.  It was a bit of a joke too, and my humour [in best Ahnold voice:  It's not a humah!] may take some time to appreciate...

[eaglesway]

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This verse(along with some others) leads me to believe that not everyone has Christ in them.

[saintwalee]

Is Christ in All?
Col 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Christ in the Prophets:
1Pe 1:10  Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11  Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Christ not in all?
Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

There appears to be a contradiction here.  :dontknow:

Ask, Seek and knock...

Children, through adoption:

Gal 4:1  Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2  But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3  Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6  And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

The Holy Spirit, the Resurrector
Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Act 10:40  Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

Luk 23:46  And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Baptized by the Holy Spirit

Mar_1:8  I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Joh 15:26  But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Rom 8:16  The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Mar 12:36  For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Mar 12:37  David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

In some of my other posts, I said that Christ was slain in Adam, in the Garden of Eden.
Rev_13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. and Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

And that as Jesus led a sinless life, he defeated sin and death. The wages of sin is death, but where there is no sin, there is no death. Therefore, He has authority over death, and with that authority, the Holy Spirit revives  our spirit, our Christ, within us.

It is of my opinion, that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, sent from God revives our spirit, our Christ.

[eaglesway]

Is Christ in All?
Col 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

If you read the context, Paul is speaking to those who have died, and risen in Christ. He is encouraging them to ascend, setting their affections of things above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

All have been forgiven, but all are not in Christ. The mystery of God's will, which He has made known unto us, in all wisdom and insight, is an administration suitable t(Eph 1)

Death is the last adversary that will be subjected, in the administration of the fulness of times. In this age, all do not have Jesus Christ within them, they must open the door. I do believe every one has the spirit/breath of life that God has given the just and unjust, along with the law written upon their consciousness, so that they are without excuse, but the spirit that now works in the sons of disobedience rules in those who have not accepted Him.

There is a veil, that keeps men from being enlightened. "If anyone has not believed our gospel, it is because the god of this world has blinded theor eyes that they might not see the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

This veil is only rent in the body of Jesus Christ, for those who believe and share that death with Him.

"For you have died and your life is hid with Christ in God".

"When Christ is revealed you will be revealed with Him in glory, if you continue in the faith grounded and settled...."

All men will not be revealed with Him when He is revealed to all, "even those who pierced Him". Christ has yet to enter their "holiest place" and tabernacle within them, but He will in time, gather all into Himself- but it is not yet so, as I see it.

Even if Christ was slain in Adam in the garden as you stated. This does not eliminate that many are not "in Christ" nor He "in them".

"As in Adam all died so also in Christ all will be made alive". All are not yet made alive, only because all have not yet been gathered into Him.

In Adam..................In Christ. distinctly separate IMO

[sheila]

personally,I beleive Christ call's men out of the their tombs NOW..as soon as they die[the hour has come when all who are asleep in their tombs shall hear the voice of the son of God and come forth.]

   I think that if the dead are not raised  then believers are not spiritually alive,either....I think if those

who have actually died in their flesh are not raised...then those who have deaden thereforth your body members that the spirit of Christ may have life in you...are not alive either.

  here..we have a token..a token of 'death to our flesh-through deadening our body members" and they the fullness.....and if we expierence a token of the spirit of Christ in us of life....they have the fullness....

  and if we have a token in the administration of the Kingdom of heaven here on earth...on the otherside of the veil is the fullness.

     Jesus said..'I do only what I behold my Father in heaven doing" just what did He do...lay down his life,forgive sins,heal the sick,open eyes of the blind,cause the lame to walk raise the dead,open ears of deaf"

   we have the tken..they the fullness ....we can not receive the fullness on this side..or the skin would burst.

  it is appointed for all men to die once then the resurrection...those that have the fullness have fully died...

and until that..we die daily..as a token of that fullness..by putting the deeds of the flesh to death by the token of the spirit..

    the resurrection of the wicked...revelation...we are not alone in this body of death/tomb...these

abominations are castout of our common grave...a persons enemies will be members of their own household

   resurrection of the holy[whole/fullness] resurrection of the righteous and wicked=us still in these bodies of

corruption.....I find that the good[righteous] that I desire to do,I do not, and thatwhich I desire not to do

   wickedness,I do.

........therefore it is no longer I,but the sin in me[secound resurrection]   I hope for the upward call the 'Better"'whole/fullness/First] resurrection of the dead

   do you not know...the first shall be last and the last shall be first.........?

[marie glen]

Key, in the sense as a device to open something that is locked, not so much as to start something, such as a car, although that could probably apply as well.

Revelation, to see something that was previously hidden.

I want to open that which is hidden, in this case, the juxtaposition of salvation.

Non-UR proponents say that those who do not believe in Jesus Christ will be thrown into Hell and tormented forever.

UR proponents of course say that all of God's children are saved.

Jesus proposes this; "Joh 5:29  And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. .

So, which is it? Are some eternally damned and some have eternal life?

IMO, This is the Key:

Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Two Bodies in one:
1Co_15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

As for the flesh:
1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

As for the Spirit:
Col 3:10  And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11  Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

For me, when I look at all of scripture from this point of view, it opens up many, many things.

Again, in summary; we are a manifold being, that of flesh and that of spirit. The Fleshly man is damned, the Spiritual man is heavenly and is eternal.

IMO, This is the good news! We are all God's children, not some who are elect, or who have decided to believe, but everyone! This kind of news is easy to share and easy to receive. When we believe, we awaken our consiousness to this revelation, that God is in us, Emmanuel (God with us), however, it also is the revelation that our flesh is damned; but that is great news, who wants to be in bondage to sin forever!

Truly, Happy Independence Day!  :dsunny:

Amen! I believe that is the same as how Jesus told the pharisees "unless you repent you shall die in your sins"

which is the same as to rise in your sins, obviously an inferior (for a time) resurrection to the 1st one where immortality and perfection is "put on"

..it's my belief the ancient fall holy days prophecy Christ's long 2nd advent - trumpets, day of atonement (doa), and tabernacles - (concluding with God the Father will "tabernacle with man" Rev 21:3)

And, if the 10 days between trumpets and day of atonement is symbolic of the 1000 year millenium, then the "5 days" between DOA and Tabernacles symbolized 500 years.. I believe the length and duration of what called "judgment day"(symbolized, in reality, by the DOA, or surprise, is a great day of /atonement a day of wailing and deep repentence for ancient Israel in its ancient Holy Day observance)

"then death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire, and anyone not written in the book of life" by then?

What is required to be written in the book of life? to "believe"

After experiencing being resurrected and witnessing and living through a very long and intense day of review of all human history, etc.. who's not going to "believe"?

..that is my very strong conviction, what I consider to be "PROOF of UR" (PROOF of Ultimate Universal Reconciliation and Redemption)
                   :smile: :hiya:

[marie glen]

I believe Jesus does call all out of their tombs of unbelief, and, or rebellion, etc, now in this life time, "the elect" that is.. but I also believe at His return and "at the last day" will be the 1st resurrection of all dead in Christ, and those living believers" at the time, to meet the Lord at His return, then His feet touch down upon Mount of Olives as written by Zechariah (14:4).. followed by a 2nd resurrection, of those not chosen to believe during this life time, and perhaps never heard in order TO believe.. at which time, they too will be called.. and those who are called are chosen, etc..
          :hiya: :smile: