Hello from Oregon

[peanutbutter]

Hi. I am new here. I have been a "Jesus girl" from age 4. I loved the Lord in my teens even with the teaching of hell. (that wasn't in my focus - God's love was) As I got older, I grew legalistic over witnessing, then confused and anxious over sovereignty/hell/love/free will. It does suck the joy out of you. It seemed like a hopeless muddle and gave rise to doubts about how the Bible could really be from God. I've prayed that God would give me some resolve over this issue because I can't embrace the teaching about hell or explain it to others in a way that makes sense. So, I am thankful to come across the teaching here. I'm still trying to understand but I think God is answering my prayer.

[WhiteWings]

 :welcome: :newb:

May you find rest here  :lazy:

[ed]

 :dsunny:

Howdy!

Welcome!

I think God is answering your prayer as well!

.

[eaglesway]

Welcome to the forum, may the Lord grant you all joy and peace in believing. There are many things we see through a glass darkly, about which many people make very confident assertions, desiring other people to follow, and tow the line. Free will/ sov is one. There are others. We talk about those things and even argue over them some :o). But one thing we all agree upon is the Restoration of All Things, the Salvation of All.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Welcome....

[peanutbutter]

Thanks for the welcome, insights and prayers. :)  I have been listening to the audio book Hope Beyond Hell as well as reading articles and watching videos of Gary A. (Sorry I can't remember how to spell it without looking). A lot of verses do make more sense and blend together better when you believe all will be saved eventually.
I grew up in a Christian home. (Conservative Baptist in doctrine, mainly.) I married a Christian and we have a large family (7 children, mostly young adults in early transition.) About 9-10 years ago my husband became disillusioned enough to quit believing in the Bible altogether. We started out trying to raise our children to know and love the Lord. Only two or three really believe now although they all did at one time. Hell was one of those stumbling issues and still is. I will gladly give up believing in hell, although I don't want to just make up my own version of the Bible! My kids and husband are really good at asking really tough questions. One that came up again a week ago is, why would God set things up so Adam and Eve could sin anyway. I know the typical answer is so humans would have free will, but then the question, why is everyone made sinful by Adam and Eve's original sin?

[eaglesway]

Romans 8 has some things to say about what God's ultimate intentions are and why He has done what He has done:o)

[SteveW]

And hello back, from Oregon!  I too grew up in a Conservative Baptist Church, Faith Baptist Church in Wilsonville, Oregon, which no longer exists.  For me it has been a long but very amazing and adventurous spiritual journey out of Evangelicalism into ?.  But I can honestly say I have never loved God more than I do now and have never experienced more of his love, joy and peace.

My heart so goes out to you and the place you are in.  It sounds like your faith is being purified (and perhaps simplified).and that is seldom an easy process.   I like to think that I have the answers to questions like the one your husband posed, but in reality I just don't know.  So I cling to what I believe with all my heart:  that he loves me and all his children with a love that parental love is but a dim reflection of.  And I rest in that, and I delight in it!

Perhaps you should answer his question with a question:  If there is a creator God who made and sustains the universe in all of its vastness and complexity, and if that God wanted children, billions upon billion of them, all of whom he could interact with simultaneously and with complete intimacy, then why wouldn't he create them so that they could be like him and have choices?  To avoid pain and suffering?  Could it be that the only way they could truly be like him and be called his sons and daughters was with that choice?  Child birth seems awful and involves pain and suffering for mother and child.  If time is as vast as matter is, if there are ages upon ages yet to come, then this life is but a hiccup, it is a seed breaking open, it is like childbirth.  We think it is so terribly significant because it is all we know.  When pain and suffering and even death come we think it is "the end of the world".   We need a different scale by which to measure such experiences.  One not based on what is seen (or felt or experienced here).  It is indeed based on faith.

Perhaps I said too much, but really their question is a form of the question of "why is there evil in the world if God is loving".  And while that question is a difficult one it certainly seems MUCH easier for an "Ultimate Reconciliationist" to answer because we believe that God is so good that He will make it all right (which is actually true justice, not just punishment).  That the seemingly pointless suffering of this life won't be carried over into a seemingly pointless eternity of suffering for most of mankind.

And regardless of all that, I wish you a hardy welcome and hope you find some of the answers you seek here and rest for your soul in God alone!

Welcome!

Steve

[saintwalee]

Welcome PeanutButter!

It seems the more we read scripture, the bigger it gets, and the more confused we can become. But I think therein is the beauty. For we cannot understand with our human mind, we need to rely on the Spirit of Truth, for he reveals all things, although I find that comprehending all things is challenging!

I have my reservations about free-will. I believe God is in total control from the beginning to the end, and that his plan for humanity was not so that we would freely choose (or not choose) Him, but that we would grow as His children, learning righteousness, humility, hope, and most of all love. God chastises those whom He loves, which is everyone. Just look at our children, they never stop being our children, although they grow and learn and have free-will to make choices, but they can never choose to not be our children.

May Christ bless your journey.