Rather than having peace...

[jasman]

I tend to vacillate between feeling like I have really hit on The Answer and feeling like I am going crazy.  To be honest, I do not have peace.  I have believed that Jesus Christ is the Savior of All men, especially those who believe for about 12 years now.  I have been reading Eby's Revelation series of late, and I am about 10 chapters into it.  I am blown away by it, but I don't have peace.  I am having such a hard time escaping my old beliefs...all that I grew up with, strayed from, went back to, and then became unsettled by (eternal hell, primarily), that I sometimes want to just stop thinking about it all.  Yet I am drawn more and more into a desire for deeper understanding.  I truly feel closer and closer to Jesus.  I believe I am becoming more and more like Him, but still, not much peace.

I guess it is partly because I am married to a wonderful woman who greatly desires community, and thus I have a hard time escaping institutional church, and friends and pastors who see things markedly different than me.  My wife believes very much like me, but isn't as consumed by it, and can function just fine in church.

In Chapter 10 of Eby's Revelation series he says this:

"As we consider the tremendous challenges, battles, prunings, purgings, processings, victories, glories and spiritual heights of attainment outlined in the book of Revelation, how fitting that John should preface this great revelation with these words: "Grace be unto you!"

            And then follows peace.  To be filled with God's peace, to be fully at peace with God, with ourselves and others, to have peace in every situation and circumstance of life, and with everything else in this world and throughout the unbounded heavens is the goal of sonship!  You will never get through the experiences of the book of Revelation without peace!  So John begins, "Peace be unto you!"  That is what the kingdom of God is all about in our lives!  If there is any one thing, within or without, that troubles us and denies us His peace, then the kingdom of God is not fully established within us."   End quote

I guess my question is this; Do any of you feel like the Kingdom of God is fully established within you as Eby describes it above?  If so, how so?  If not, why not and when do you think it will happen?

Thanks very much for any thoughts you may have, Jasman

[WhiteWings]

Jasman,

Unlearning is often harder than learning.
Your struggle is actually good because to me it shows you are a person that doesn't just accept a teaching. When you finally 100% accept UR, it will firmly rooted in Scriptures. Not just a 10 minute video on YouTube...

Your question about Eby I can'gt answer because I don't like his writings. Maybe I just picked the wrong articles to start with, but what I've read of him was boring and avoiding Scripture to support his views.

[sheila]

Jas..re;the kingdom fully established in you...that is something God himself does..no man can do it

..seeking a city not made by human hands.  I myself will establish her......

    it must be established on the ROCK..for a sure foundation..immovable of any adversary or man's

doing.  the salvation of ALL Mankind by God is a 'rock' a sure foundation...evrything else any of

  our expierence between the fulfillment of that...whether our ups/downs, confusions/revelatins

  or our own personal defeats/victories in our wrestlings and walk...will not effect the plan......

...actually..we look back on it..realize He was with us through it all[good/bad] and brings us

there.....personally having gone through some hard things..I can look back and know they were

for my benefit..for what He desired to form in me.

...the realizatin that His love/motive/deliverance is a constant...and does not vascilate

  brings about a trust/security to the children of God.  Is He always pleased with us[our behaviour]

no..but He is pleased to LOVE US ALL and to deliver us .  I will love then of my own free will.....

  we all will look back and know ..we have been loved well.

 

[ed]

Hey jasman,

I'm pretty much the opposite of you.  My wife can't stand the religion of Christianity.  We were both in the same Christian group when we met 25 years ago, so she gets it, she is just done with it.  Some times I tell her I'm thinking about going to this church or that church and I always get some good edifying words from her. :winkgrin:

As far as peace goes, it is a fruit of the Spirit, and is a test of whether we are spiritually mind or not.  "For to be carnally minded is death, but to spiritually minded is life and peace".

Most all of my peace comes from personal revelation, personal bible study, and prayer.  I know when I'm struggling, and I know that God is working something in me.  The struggle is part of God's hand bringing me to a place of spiritual peace.

I love J P Eby as well.  I get the hard copy of his Revelation series and look forward to it coming in the mail.  Expecting one soon, the last one I read was #149 I think.

Thanks for posting on peace!
Ed

[eaglesway]

Jasman, I can empathize with your experience after having shared it for years myself, having been in ministry in ET and ED fellowships for years.

All I can tell you is that you WILL find peace and rest at some point, but you will always be challenged to abide in it at times.

My personal testimony is that about 6 years ago, altho I had believed in the salvation of all(with a brief detour into considering annihilation for a couple of years) for many years, the Father provided me with an opportunity to spend a full summer in study of the doctrines of the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment(Hebrews 6 foundations). Just me and a bible and Google and the Holy Spirit in little hideaway in the mountains :o). I was able to pierce the veil, so to speak, and get into the depths of it until every possible question was resolved.
Basicly, it was a revelation of God's plan and hidden wisdom made clear to me in such a way that I felt I could completely handle the "word of truth" concernng UR, not just from the viewpoint of that as "a truth"- but as UR being a part of the fabric, woven into the matrix of the Logos, and integral to WHO GOD IS and WHY HE HAS DONE WHAT HE HAS DONE.

This set me totally free.

Your path to rest may be completely different, but I would encourage you to rest in the assurance that peace WILL come.

The weight of fear that is put upon people who resist and overcome these devilish (James 3:13-17) doctrines that so distort the image of God and veil the "light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" (2 Cor 4:1-5) is very real, but eventually the joy of knnowing Him in Hs ways and in His purposes and in His eternal plan for all mankind so overwhelms us with love that all fear disappears.

Fear has torment, but perfect love casts out all fear..... and the good news is, we dont perfect our love, the Father does- as the mind of Christ grows up into a well flowing up by grace, rather than a marshalling up of our own resources.

The aspect of losing the respect or fellowship of people we love is always difficult, but I believe sometimes the Lord leads us to "walk among them" as signs and testimonies to the truth. You might be right where He wants you for now.

One last purely personal note: I read Andrew Jukes, "The Restitution of All Things when I was a young(26) elder/assistant pastor in a New Testament church in Denver Colorado. I believed it, and it CRUSHED ME in a way, because I was anxious to get on with full time ministry and I was secretly ambitious to be somebody and I saw all my "hard earned"(joke) respect pouring out the bottom of my plan for my life.

Thank God.

White Wings said on another thread, "It takes longer to unlearn than to learn".

Wise words. It took me decades to see the religion in myself and to be brought by the Lord to a place where I was beyond apologizing for who I believed He was- no matter what effect that had on the opinions of others concerning me. That freedom gives me great abandonment.

I am not saying anything to you about yourself, I am just saying that God is often working behind the veil of who we think we are and what we think He wants to work into us -aspects of character we don't even realize are elements of the divine nature- Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Blessing upon that journey my brother. Grace and peace be unto you in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and God our Father. :o)

[joeteekay]

I feel that way too. Beautiful post and thread.
:dsunny:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:

[lastpost]

May I have the privilege of some input? I do not say anyone should believe it but I just offer my own perception.

I found that in spite of knowing and accepting certain things - for instance, that the Christ of God is the perfect Saviour of All, and some of the more intimate aspects given through the Holy Spirit - I found that this - and any knowledge - does not give peace in its own right.

I realised that I needed saving from myself. No matter how I tried to follow the dictates or guidance of the Spirit, I did it so imperfectly that it left me not at peace - even the little things masked that peace.

It was only when I prayed and prayed again: 'Almighty Father, save me from myself.' 'Most loving Saviour, I need You to save me from myself'...it was only after persevering along these lines that peace came to me.

I was not troubled by the eternal torment doctrine, I have never paid any attention to it anyway, it was something that my spirit just did not have time for. However, I truly have the deepest sympathy for those many who have been wrecked by it.

I encountered the God who is Love to be found in Christ, long before knowing about all of the wrecked lives caused through the eternal torment doctrine - that may sound strange but it is true. When the God who is Love had already taken hold - when the Spirit in me danced with joy at the sound of Christ's Name and He was in my consciousness and being, as it were, hearing about such a doctrine as eternal torment left me wondering how anyone could believe it at all - and I say that only to reiterate that there is nothing to be afraid of in disbelieving the doctrine of eternal torment. But I do understand how one can belief it, having been instructed by many testimonies.

My personal experience is that the Love of God is the answer, and I would qualify this by adding that communing with the God who is Love is the answer for myself. I am fortunate in that I have the word of the Holy Spirit to guide me. The word of the Spirit brought me to my knees in reverence of Christ. He is worthy of the highest and deepest love, and I desire to know how to love Him more, and to be His servant for eternity - what else?

I speak of my own experience: The peace of God can come through prayer to the Gracious One. It opens the Door. That is what the Father wants - His child to be in complete union with Him in every aspect (in line with the first Commandment...). For myself, this life is an essential precursor to a fuller life, that is what I believe. I have been trained, if you will, to be more aware about the life to come than this one - in fact, with a prayerful attitude, the life to come can dominate this life [but there are always powerful tests! One must be tested].

The tests of daily life. Daily life may seem to prevent a prayerful attitude but I have found that it is a battle between the mind of the body and the mind of the spirit, but again, through prayer, the spiritual mind can win. "Through prayer" may not sound like a serious solution, but I believe that is why it is not used enough - because its power is not realised.

About peace? Well, two things I can say from my own experience. One is that to keep that peace, one should pass it on. Ah, and the second thing - and the most beautiful in my opinion - is that peace is of Love and Love wants to give Itself away with a force so powerful that to withhold it is impossible!

I hope that I have spoken in the degree of humility required by Christ and have not raised in anyone thoughts of separatism, God forbid!

In His Peace.

[Seth]

It took me a good solid year for my emotions to line up with my reason, regarding UR. Even then, I had a hard time reading the parables and other writings within scripture. They just seemed so extreme to allow for UR, and when I accepted UR, they still seemed so extreme. I believe there is plenty of scriptural evidence to interpret those scriptures figuratively, in fact much more so than ETers probably realize.

Matthew 13:
18 "Now listen to the explanation of the parable about the farmer planting seeds: 19 The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the word about the Kingdom and don't understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches away the seed that was planted in their hearts.

[jasman]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you all for the thoughtful posts.  I hope others will continue to do so, as I found each one of your responses very insightful, comforting and encouraging.  It is so interesting how beautifully each of you spoke to me...each in such a unique way.  Thank you.

Yesterday ended up being a tremendously blessed day for me, one where I do believe I got a major dose of that peace I seek.  It was a gift from God, at just the right time.  Two guys came over to my house from our small group for a scheduled meeting we had to discuss planting a fellowship/"church" in our city.  I wasn't looking forward to it because I have been feeling strongly that I would need to pull away or leave, based on things that had recently transpired.

This group could have as many as 14 guys that could show up for any meeting, but only the two came, and one was one of only two friends at our church who already know what I believe.  The other guy is one who I figured would at least not go ballistic.  The topic for the evening was such that it was a perfect chance to share my thoughts on ER, and I did so.  This friend was remarkably kind, genuinely curious and thoughtful.  He acknowledged that in some major ways we weren't too far apart, even though in others we probably were.  He didn't see it at all as a problem.  He understood how our church leadership might, but he and the other friend strongly encouraged me to stay within our fellowship and push the envelope.  I plan to for as long as possible, while yesterday at this time I was having a very hard time thinking that was an option.

Before we started chatting the friend who would be discovering my thoughts last evening played Lacrae's "Beautiful Feet".  I'm far from a big fan of Christian music and even less of a fan of Rap Music, but I found this song to be Beautiful.  Check it out if you get a chance.

Again, thank you for the encouragement and additional insight!  All your thoughts on peace were very interesting to me.  I'd still be curious to know if anyone here visiting this forum considers the kingdom of God "fully established" within them, or if they know of someone else who can say this.  Is there ever a point in time for anyone in this fleeting life when one might experience the kingdom fully established, or does that only happen when we leave behind our tents and camp here no more?

Thanks! 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I personally think the Kingdom is come, is coming and will come. I also don't think it will be fully come until we have our new wineskins. The Kingdom is not a place, but a person, ie. the Kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy. Those are the attributes we get from HIM. Blessings....

[ed]

Again, thank you for the encouragement and additional insight!  All your thoughts on peace were very interesting to me.  I'd still be curious to know if anyone here visiting this forum considers the kingdom of God "fully established" fully established within them, or if they know of someone else who can say this.  Is there ever a point in time for anyone in this fleeting life when one might experience the kingdom fully established, or does that only happen when we leave behind our tents and camp here no more?

Thanks!

Hi jasman,
Glad to hear that you had a good meeting with the local fellowship.  It is very nice to have friends who will hear your heart, and encourage you.  Truly priceless.

I will agree with Cardinal that the kingdom of God is fully established in the person of Jesus Christ.  Christ is in us and we are in Christ.  We are the light of the world through Jesus Christ.........that is how the kingdom is still coming.
:friendstu:

[Ross]

Interesting verse about the kingdom of God;

Luke 17;20,21 " Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God is coming, He answered them and said,
' The kingdom of God will not come with visual evidence, nor will they say,
"look here it is, or, There it is."
For the kingdom of God is within the midst of you."

Seems to say that really speaking God is in control and we are part of that kingdom as he chooses to reveal to us. Even though we are on earth separate to heaven, He is still ALL present.