Romans 1:20 - They are without excuse (who are they?)

[sheila]

 well, I see it olriginally as pertaining to the satan and fallen angels..who did not keep their proper position in heaven.....

   remember the demons saying...I know who you are,Jesus etc..........

     but these unseen things are manifested in the seenl[creation] by man bearing the corrupt image.....the image of

   the corrupt one.

       exchanging the truth of God for a lie..can be seen in the garden..in the deceiving words the serpent spoke...surely not,

  for God knows in the day ye eat of them ye shall be like[equa withl] God.[not worshipping God]

   I also think Jesus showed us a very positive example..for when He found himself in the form of man....He humbled himself

not thinking equality with God something to be grsped[even though the heir of all things]

   Jesus lso saaid 'you have no excuse for your sin..because you say,I see"..when speaking to the offspring of vipers

on the religious leaders..yet we know..they were blinded for a time. These things were manifest..and showed openly

  for our example.  the distinction is the deceivers from the deceived.

       

[eaglesway]

I simply can't agree with that. Mainly because I don't understand how to apply the verse in real life.

I know all the verses about God's power being displayed in His creation.
Now imagine you are a Viking. You kneel before Thor, Wodan and other Norsk gods.
How can you even know about Jesus if the HS doesn't personally come to tell you.
You see power in nature but you honestly think it's from the supreme god you believe in. Obviously Vikings are also part of the Gentiles.

The story is a bit different for the countries surrounding Israel or pagans being in Israel. It's likely Romans listened to Jesus's sermons. Even if it was just to make sure He didn't say bad things about the Roman empire. But I doubt they understood anything of it.
The Egyptian people have 1st hand knowledge of God's power (the plagues). But I really wonder if they were told were the plagues orginated from. Personally I wouldn't be suprised some priest would tell them it was because one of their gods became angry because his temple wasn't beatiful enough. And taxes should be raised to build  a better temple. Or similar lies.

All the above is a problem for all denominations (including UR)
But especially for ETs. In case of UR the unknowing miss out stuff like the millenioum but also for them glory starts with the last verse of Revelation so to speak.
What it means in the ET mind I don't need to tell.

While UR is important, it is only important as a manifestation of the divine nature. Jesus came to reveal, and distribute, the divine nature through the Spirit. The carnal man is destroyed at the cross. It is here that all men are judged(IMO). The cross is more than something we see. Jesus made it clear that we must embrace it in order to abide(continu) in Him. Doctrines are only shadows of reality. Judgment is based in actual reality. Only God knows the secrets of men's hearts, and as I see it He is discerning our hearts, our motives, our actions- according to His own.(If you would be like your Father in heaven, forgive your enemies, bless those who curse you, give a drink of water to anyone who thirsts including your adversaries)

For me the WHOLE GOSPEL is summed up in the two great commandments, and Jesus fulfilled them, and calls all men to do the same. For me, this is the judgment that has come onto the world because Christ laid down His life. The one who believes, loves, laying down their own lives and following Him in the way of giving, sharing, sacrifice. Only God knows those who are His, and I think doctrine is only a small part of that- except for teachers, who incur a stricter judgment(James).

[Seth]

(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The above verse is often used as proof that each and every indivual on earth has/had lots of chances to start believing in God before they die and get their rightfully deserved eternity in hell.

Who is "they"? Are they pagans, atheists, people of the wrong denomination, etc?
Nope, they refers to ET scholars.


(Rom 1:21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

The red part is the key. They are people who knew about the God of Abraham. Christians and Jews. Not pagans etc. Yeah, many muslims have heard about Father and Son but I think that's not 'knew God'.
'Knew' is a much deeper level than having heard something about a person.



(Rom 1:18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
(Rom 1:19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it to them.
(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(Rom 1:21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.
(Rom 1:24) Why God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
(Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
(Rom 1:26) For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

:2thumbs:

[josh]

the they that i  think they be
be best understood as for most if not all
aspects of a soul's past lifetimes
and maybe too
before some had a physical earth body....

where tho our original soul body
from the get go was a physical body
but the earth body was made by those without sin
methinks
for the purpose of bringing experiences that would serve as what one needed to face
for the restoration of their glorified soul body...

those who souls who generated this
methinks
were the plural god elohim of genesis 1
sons of god
some of which got tempeted by .................hmmm
and the salavation plan had to be altered
when they went off track by marring the daughters of men
genesis 6

[eaglesway]

the they that i  think they be
be best understood as for most if not all
aspects of a soul's past lifetimes
and maybe too
before some had a physical earth body....

where tho our original soul body
from the get go was a physical body
but the earth body was made by those without sin
methinks
for the purpose of bringing experiences that would serve as what one needed to face
for the restoration of their glorified soul body...

those who souls who generated this
methinks
were the plural god elohim of genesis 1
sons of god
some of which got tempeted by .................hmmm
and the salavation plan had to be altered
when they went off track by marring the daughters of men
genesis 6

These opinions and speculations are unprovable and therefore like a mist where someone says, "It was a mountain" while someone else says "It was a turtle".

The information is not clearly given in the scriptures which means, imo, its not so important.

Re-incarnation is a false teaching of Hinduism, and a few other smaller religions and new-age cults. It is a teaching that is contrary to the scriptures and the teaching or promotion of it is not allowed on the site.

At first I was going to remove this post, because it is not in keeping with the subject of the thread, and does not contribute to the discussion, but then, in a round about way it does present one view of eternal judgment, just that is is a view that is not found in scripture. It is the speculation of worldy imagination that men and women work out their salvation over many lifetimes.

Jesus Christ has saved all by the shedding of His blood and through the obedience of His one lifetime. All have one lifetime with which to respond, or not, to the free gift.

[jabcat]

the they that i  think they be
be best understood as for most if not all
aspects of a soul's past lifetimes
and maybe too
before some had a physical earth body....

where tho our original soul body
from the get go was a physical body
but the earth body was made by those without sin
methinks
for the purpose of bringing experiences that would serve as what one needed to face
for the restoration of their glorified soul body...

those who souls who generated this
methinks
were the plural god elohim of genesis 1
sons of god
some of which got tempeted by .................hmmm
and the salavation plan had to be altered
when they went off track by marring the daughters of men
genesis 6

These opinions and speculations are unprovable and therefore like a mist where someone says, "It was a mountain" while someone else says "It was a turtle".

The information is not clearly given in the scriptures which means, imo, its not so important.

Re-incarnation is a false teaching of Hinduism, and a few other smaller religions and new-age cults. It is a teaching that is contrary to the scriptures and the teaching or promotion of it is not allowed on the site.

At first I was going to remove this post, because it is not in keeping with the subject of the thread, and does not contribute to the discussion, but then, in a round about way it does present one view of eternal judgment, just that is is a view that is not found in scripture. It is the speculation of worldy imagination that men and women work out their salvation over many lifetimes.

Jesus Christ has saved all by the shedding of His blood and through the obedience of His one lifetime. All have one lifetime with which to respond, or not, to the free gift.

You came down from heaven's throne
This earth you formed was not your home
A love like this the world had never known

A crown of thorns to mock your name
Forgiveness fell upon your face
A love like this the world had never known

On the altar of our praise let there be no higher name
Jesus son of God
You laid down your perfect life
You are the sacrifice
Jesus Son of God
You are Jesus Son of God

You took our sin
You bore our shame
You rose to life
You defeated the grave
Love like this the world has never known

On the altar of our praise let there be no higher name
Jesus son of God
You laid down your perfect life
You are the sacrifice
Jesus Son of God
You are Jesus Son of God

The cross was enough
The cross was enough
The cross was enough
The cross was enough



Chris Tomlin

[jabcat]

Grace and peace. 

Philippians 4:7

[Seth]

 :banana:

[Cardinal]

These opinions and speculations are unprovable and therefore like a mist where someone says, "It was a mountain" while someone else says "It was a turtle".

The information is not clearly given in the scriptures which means, imo, its not so important.

Re-incarnation is a false teaching of Hinduism, and a few other smaller religions and new-age cults. It is a teaching that is contrary to the scriptures and the teaching or promotion of it is not allowed on the site.

At first I was going to remove this post, because it is not in keeping with the subject of the thread, and does not contribute to the discussion, but then, in a round about way it does present one view of eternal judgment, just that is is a view that is not found in scripture. It is the speculation of worldy imagination that men and women work out their salvation over many lifetimes.

Jesus Christ has saved all by the shedding of His blood and through the obedience of His one lifetime. All have one lifetime with which to respond, or not, to the free gift.

:cloud9: :thumbsup: Amen. Reincarnation is a doctrine of works, and if we could do it for ourselves, no matter how many lifetimes it took, then we wouldn't need Christ. That makes it an "ANTI-Christ" doctrine, and since the Spirit is not divided (as to purpose and nature), it becomes obvious just "where" this doctrine came from. Blessings....

[Seth]

 :iagree:

[eaglesway]

I think "they" refers to anyone who supresses the truth by their unrighteous attitudes and or conduct and or false teaching, be they UR, ET or WE (WhatEver).

Notice the comparison is to the divine nature. The fruit of the spirit is the key to this verse, along with 1 Cor 2 and james 3 :13-18