Encouragement for Our Times of Sufferings

[FreeAtLast]

Some things that are on my heart that I would like to share ,as a UR in our day you will face some sort of suffering--but here are some comforting thoughts

What we have been - are presently - and shall be -  facing in our lives sometimes causes depression and may even causes us to be whiners.

Many in the bible we can consider--but Paul the Apostle is on my heart at this present time--lets look at him in 2nd Corinthians.
Paul suffered greatly for Yahshua in his life and lets hear the Apostle's own words now.
2nd Corinthians 11:24--Of the Jews 5 times received i 40 stripes(save one)    means 39 total stripes on his back 5 different times  that's 195 stripes!!!
a lot of times it would come around and open men's stomach and their guts would fall out and die(sorry for the grossness)for times sake those who don't know about these stripes and how terrible  it was(PLEASE take time and look into it on the net)

11:25--Thrice was I beaten with rods,once was I stoned,thrice I suffered shipwreck,a night and a day I have been in the deep.
He was stoned and left for dead at Lystra--stoning hurts

11:26 perils,perils,perils,perils,perils---read about all the perils he faced

11:27--In weariness and painfulness,in watchings often,in hunger and thirst,in fastings often,in cold and nakedness-----WOW!!!
sore all the time from beatings and stoning--watching for men who were trying to kill him-without food and water,no proper clothing to wear.

My dear brothers and sisters--I don't think any of us have went through such things in our lives(if you have then pls correct me :-) )
how do we look upon the sufferings we do have in our lives ?? Hear the Beloved Apostle of our Father in his own words-------

2nd Corinthians 4:17--For our LIGHT Affliction,which is but for a moment,worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory(notice that eth on worketh--eth means it keeps on working for us and never stops till the job is completed!!!) and the Apostle  called his affliction LIGHT   :HeartThrob:
Roman's 8:18--For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are NOT WORTHY to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us

Romans 5:3-5--states tribulation worketh(eth on work again--keeps working till the job is complete)patience,patience worketh experience,experience worketh Hope--and Hope maketh not ashamed because the love of Yah is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

How did Paul endure such things ??
Hebrews 12:3--For consider Yahshua who endured such contradictions of sinners against himself,lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

The Beloved Apostle considered  Yahshua !!! My brother and sisters we have took a brief moment to consider paul--but we also like him must consider our Master Yahshua in all of his suffering that he suffered because he LOVED US !!! may we LOVE him and consider him in our sufferings.

Count it all JOY when suffering for Yahshua--For our father is making us into the image of his only begotten Son !!!

I tried to make this short as possible--many more things that is on my mind --im just sharing my heart with you all--hope someone gets encouragement   :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Really puts it in perspective, doesn't it? It HAD to be God for that man to go through all that he/they did. That ALONE should make anyone a believer.  :thumbsup:

[donken]

Hi.  All mankind and all animals and all living things that feel have suffered tremendous pains, anguish, fear, and have been killed and eaten etc.  Man has suffered from things that were over him in his\our ignorance, such as plagues and diseases and weather, earthquakes, tornadoes, and so on.  We suffer from disease until we begin to enter into parts of our lordship that is promised to be to us fully some day.  As I said in other places, some people suffered black plague and so on until we could become knowledgeable about the world enough to begin to "put these things away" or cast them out and defeat them.   This is part of how we grow and put off the darkness {ignorance} as we get light {knowledge} about these things, in the proper manner, and we become more and more mature and put off immaturity, or childish things.

When we become THE MAN Jesus Christ we will be able to put off all childish things and control the weather and all disease and so on, physically doing what Jesus did through the father in Israel.  Seeing Jesus physically with physical eyes will never ever reveal him because who he is is everything he knows and understands and every attribute of the divine nature.  These things are spiritual and must be spiritually TASTED or experienced and felt to know them. Ie.. we have to be all of them and put off all that are in us that are NOT OF THE attributes of the divine nature.  The attributes of the divine nature are "messengers" of the attributes of the full Spirit of God.  SO... the single attributes of the divine nature are messengers of THE SPIRIT, or "angels" that all together make up WHO GOD IS.

Jesus Christ is the beginning of the CREATION OF GOD, Revelation implies.  Thus, Jesus is "created".  Yes, He is one with the father and the father is who he became one with by having the divine nature in him as who he is and obeying only it in deeds, and the law of sin only for the needs of the body.
He said, follow HIM. {not "all" scripture}
donken

[FreeAtLast]

Yahshua also said that he lived not by Bread alone---But by Every word from the mouth of the Father.

We know that the scriptures  were written by men who were moved upon by the Spirit and the originals contains no errors.

So  in saying all that--all the commandments,laws,and statues from the written word are also from the mouth of the Father---so in essence  Yahshua followed the scriptures because they were his Father's own words---and we too should do as John said---walk even as Yahshua walked 


Just a few thoughts   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

also the spirit will Not lead us against the scriptures which are the Father's own words from his mouth   :dsunny:

[donken]

Hi. Moses and thus the O.T. as it is does not give us the bread from above.  Jesus Christ is the true bread that comes down from the Father and the ONLY TRUE BREAD.

I believe, The words are prey to the understanding of the spirit and experiences of the one reading them and teaching them.

donken

[Seth]

Yahshua also said that he lived not by Bread alone---But by Every word from the mouth of the Father.

We know that the scriptures  were written by men who were moved upon by the Spirit and the originals contains no errors.

So  in saying all that--all the commandments,laws,and statues from the written word are also from the mouth of the Father---so in essence  Yahshua followed the scriptures because they were his Father's own words---and we too should do as John said---walk even as Yahshua walked 


Just a few thoughts   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

also the spirit will Not lead us against the scriptures which are the Father's own words from his mouth   :dsunny:

:iagree:

The OT scriptures are not the bread, but they are truthful. Moses and the prophets spoke as inspired by God. Thier assessments of his ways, traits and character, are completely dependable and inerrant.

[donken]

Hello Seth.   Thanks for your reply.   Moses and the prophets spoke according to the spirit in them at that time.  Just as we do today, and that is the source of all our differences for those who do sincerely and deeply believe in God the way they presently present their belief.  Many understandings we have are not complete when we receive them and when we think they are we can present a different viewpoint of the same truth but not full or complete enough which causes confusion.

I offer that anything that does not agree with the SPIRIT of Jesus words that he also physically lived out in his life, is not of God.  Any words of scripture that say God is saying anything different than what Jesus did is not of GOD but "can be" and often is a word interpretation according to the natural spirit of man in or dominated by the carnal mind and spirit.  This does happen,

Paul said this to holy ghost baptized believers of his day.       1Co_3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Is this not a very real and common evident fact about Christianity as a whole today, and is the source of many wars in history and is also the source of unbelief in many people who say they are of another religion or are atheists, agnostics, or just "spiritual" but not religious, etc.  We should accept responsibility for this fact.

God bless, donken

[Seth]

I offer that anything that does not agree with the SPIRIT of Jesus words that he also physically lived out in his life, is not of God.  Any words of scripture that say God is saying anything different than what Jesus did is not of GOD but "can be" and often is a word interpretation according to the natural spirit of man in or dominated by the carnal mind and spirit.  This does happen,

I offer that NONE of the words of scriptures contradict Jesus. It is WE who must conform our viewpoint to the scriptures, not the scriptures that must be conformed.

[donken]

Hello Seth.   Thanks for your reply.   Moses and the prophets spoke according to the spirit in them at that time.  Just as we do today, and that is the source of all our differences for those who do sincerely and deeply believe in God the way they presently present their belief.  Many understandings we have are not complete when we receive them and when we think they are we can present a different viewpoint of the same truth but not full or complete enough which causes confusion.

I offer that anything that does not agree with the SPIRIT of Jesus words that he also physically lived out in his life, is not of God.  Any words of scripture that say God is saying anything different than what Jesus did is not of GOD but "can be" and often is a word interpretation according to the natural spirit of man in or dominated by the carnal mind and spirit.  This does happen,

Paul said this to holy ghost baptized believers of his day.       1Co_3:3  For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Is this not a very real and common evident fact about Christianity as a whole today, and is the source of many wars in history and is also the source of unbelief in many people who say they are of another religion or are atheists, agnostics, or just "spiritual" but not religious, etc.  We should accept responsibility for this fact.

Jesus, as we know, said he *IS* THE way, THE truth, and THE LIFE.  His witness and lifestyle is the way to come to the truth about the LIFE,. and the LIFE is God.

Here is what Moses and the prophets, including John the Baptist, taught.  John the Baptist himself said of himself that HE, meaning the spirit he was in his belief and understanding, HAD TO DECREASE.  At the same time, he said that JESUS HAD TO INCREASE.  Ie.. the spirit of the prophets was saying that that spirit was NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST.  I am not saying God did not deal with or speak to the prophets, but the understanding of Gods' words was carnally understood and believed by them from WITHIN THEM.   Any perversion or misunderstanding of God's words is always FROM WITHIN the reader, hearer, or speaker and believer.
It is OUT OF THE HEART that the things that defile the man {defile the temple} come from, Jesus himself said.  NOTHING from outside of man entering into man can defile him.  {it is already there, ignorance and immaturity and captivity to carnal lusts\appetites, etc. without wisdom}

What the prophets and Moses said to Israel was in the context that *IF* they did not listen to God and do what God had taught them about what their lifestyle should be at those times, then there would be certain results come upon them.  {WHY}.  Because God was going to allow it, not because God made men do sin so they would be against Israel.  If God supported sin or the works of sin then he would be guilty of having a mind of and intent of SIN.  Sin is a condition of being SHORT OF THE GLORY THAT GOD *IS*.  He changes not.

We are to choose this day.  Do we believe God does no evil, or do we have a God that does and directs and supports evil.  That is the only two choices.  What Spirit is God.  The tree of both deeds\fruit, or the tree of life only.   

Bless, donken

God bless, donken

[Seth]

HI Ken,
I am not sure if that is meant to be the same post as the one before, but I will answer the question.

We are to choose this day.  Do we believe God does no evil, or do we have a God that does and directs and supports evil.  That is the only two choices.  What Spirit is God.  The tree of both deeds\fruit, or the tree of life only.   

God does no evil. But God does USE evil for his purpose.

[donken]

Hi Seth.  Well, yes, I understand you believe all scripture is ABOUT God.  Is that right?

Let me ask you.  When a baby is born, the maturity and knowledge of the mother and father is "dead" in the baby.  So.  Did they KILL IT.   And, is that not what happens for the sake of the baby, so the baby himself can eventually become the equal of the parents in knowledge and maturity.?

This is the way of all "new creations".

This happens so the immaturity and ignorance that exists in the new baby can be overcome by maturity and wisdom and muscular ability to use that maturity and wisdom properly.  But, theoretically, because humans are not God, the parents do not do or think any of the ways the baby or child does.  So it is with God and us.   Moses and the prophets taught and believed in doing both GOOD and EVIL, etc., and that they were like God already.  Christianity also does this same thing often, saying they are "already" saved when in actual fact we do not have the continuous walk and that itself becomes a false witness of Christ.

Thanks, donken.

[Seth]

Hi Seth.  Well, yes, I understand you believe all scripture is ABOUT God.  Is that right?

Let me ask you.  When a baby is born, the maturity and knowledge of the mother and father is "dead" in the baby.  So.  Did they KILL IT.   And, is that not what happens for the sake of the baby, so the baby himself can eventually become the equal of the parents in knowledge and maturity.?

From what I see, your assumption is that they spoke from their own imperfect knowledge. They spoke by the Spirit of God, not according to their own knowledge. The prophets only spoke the truth.

Isaiah 6
5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

6Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Isaiah's mouth was cleansed of all impurity and iniquity. His mouth was purified and remained no imperfection in what he spoke to Israel. All the prophets are trustworthy.

[donken]

[/quote]

From what I see, your assumption is that they spoke from their own imperfect knowledge. They spoke by the Spirit of God, not according to their own knowledge. The prophets only spoke the truth.

Isaiah 6
5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

6Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Isaiah's mouth was cleansed of all impurity and iniquity. His mouth was purified and remained no imperfection in what he spoke to Israel. All the prophets are trustworthy.
[/quote]

Hello Seth.  Hi Seth.   The people saw the Lord in Israel.   Did that identify him for them.  Seeing angels or cherubim or even seeing visions is not SEEING GOD, is it.

BEING exactly like God is the only way one will ever see {understand} God properly.  By being the son that is raised from the ways and will and mind of sin and death BY GOD... all done internally over time, which is now becoming a short quick work.   ONLY THE SON knows the father, and that too is scripture.  Anywhere the witness and deeds supported by the prophets differs from Jesus' meaning of the words and his lifestyle will circumcise the old testament for us, cutting away and discarding any understanding that is entirely of the flesh works.

Bless, donken

[Seth]

Anywhere the witness and deeds supported by the prophets differs from Jesus' meaning of the words and his lifestyle will circumcise the old testament for us, cutting away and discarding any understanding that is entirely of the flesh works.

And, again, I am submitting to you that ALL the witness and deeds of the prophets support Christ's meanings. Nothing differs.

[donken]

Hi Seth.  I submit for our consideration that the law and Moses and the prophets were the spirit of the belief of John the Baptist. 

John himself said that he was not the light of Christ, that he did not know Christ, and that he had to decrease and Christ has to increase.

Let us see that as saying that what and the way the O.T saints, Moses, and the prophets believed has to be CHANGED by the old natural minded man decreasing and the true witness of God has to ascend in our understanding and our lifestyle.
John also thought the judgment was going to be physically applied.  But actually, it is spiritually applied, entering the SPIRIT {heart} of man and cleansing the temple in and by LOVE.
That is what "this corruption" putting on incorruption is.  It is a spiritual incorruption FIRST.  The belief of the O.T. saints and Israel and Moses and all is carnal, or and according to the will and ways and ideas of the flesh and how it judges other men.

Bless, donken

[Seth]

Hi Seth.  I submit for our consideration that the law and Moses and the prophets were the spirit of the belief of John the Baptist. 

Since you believe that John the Baptist was essentially wrong about his belief about Christ, that must mean that you believe that the Law and Prophets were wrong about God?

John also thought the judgment was going to be physically applied. 

You believe John THOUGHT this based on a single question? Is that an assumption, or did John actually say he thought that? Isn't John the one who said "Behold the Lamb of God who comes to take away the sins of the world." It seems to me that John had a good head start as to what Jesus was there to do. For an Israelite familiar with the Law to call someone a "Lamb of God," doesn't that imply that John had a good idea what Jesus was there to do?

John's question indicates that he struggled with doubt as he sat in prison, but I don't see where he misjudged Christ's intent or looked forward to a "physically applied" judgment.

[donken]

Hello Seth   Yes, we go on attempting to "prove" or justify our idea of truth.  Do we idolize the bible, do you think?  Can Christians be guilty of idolatry in this area.  Yes we can.   Why do we struggle so much.  Because we relate to the "spirit" of the old testament because it is the normal natural ways of every living insect, microbe, and animal in the present word, of which we are also an animal by our ways.  Kill and eat, build empires, put our enemies in hellfire by bombs, fire from the sky\heaven, gas chambers, napalm bombs, injure the star player on the other team in sports if possible, etc, etc. etc.

The old testament example of what the people in the old testament believed is exactly the type of thing Hitler proposed and had done, Caesar did to his enemies at times, and Genghis Khan and a multitude of others do to their enemies or to other nationalities, etc.  Yes, of course, Christians believe that the men mentioned here did it by being evil, but somehow they believe that God could actually do such things, and yet do it FOR GOOD.   Yes, double minded man receives nothing from the Lord.

John the Baptist's query came because Jesus as Messiah was not taking John into freedom, and JOhn did not see Jesus doing things in the way John believed and taught they would be done.... physically.

Mat_3:12  Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Luk_3:17  Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

Mat 3:10  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 3:11  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12  Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Luk 3:16  John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 3:17  Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
Luk 3:18  And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people.

In the passage below, where the speaker is witnessed as John the Baptist, John says he is not the Christ, says he is not the bride, and says that the man that is earthy if of the earth and speaks of the earth, and also says that he, John, {his belief that he taught by} MUST DECREASE OR DISSOLVE AWAY.  OLD MAN.
And further below John said HE KNEW HIM NOT.

Joh 3:28  Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
Joh 3:29  He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Joh 3:30  He must increase, but I must decrease.
Joh 3:31  He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Joh 3:32  And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

I note that it is the WORLD that does not know him as well, and that means that JOHN and the prophets and O.T. witness is OF THE WORLD, and not of God.
As we know, the world or worldliness is what has to "disappear" or DECREASE in us as Christ INCREASES.  So you decide for yourself what spirit John and the old testament was.   

Joh_1:10  He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh_1:31  And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Joh_1:33  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

Do we have any thoughts on why Ishmael, born of Abrams idea of how a son would be born as God had promised him, was born while Abram was uncircumcised, but the promised Son that GOD MEANT could not be produced by man's methods as Sarah was beyond ability to have a child.  And, with a name change, and a circumcised body, the promise of God was fulfilled the way GoD MEANT the promise and not the way man believed and thought it.
Perhaps we can think about this Spiritually, and the natural story and fulfillment as a parable to be understood spiritually within mankind.

Bless, ken

[Seth]

The old testament example of what the people in the old testament believed is exactly the type of thing Hitler proposed and had done, Caesar did to his enemies at times, and Genghis Khan and a multitude of others do to their enemies or to other nationalities, etc.  Yes, of course, Christians believe that the men mentioned here did it by being evil, but somehow they believe that God could actually do such things, and yet do it FOR GOOD.   Yes, double minded man receives nothing from the Lord.

But we are not talking about what the OT people BELIEVED. We are talking about what the scripture SAYS. If the scripture misspoke about God's participation in various disasters and wars in the OT, then the scripture should be discarded. I don't believe any part of scripture is wrong or to be discarded.

John the Baptist's query came because Jesus as Messiah was not taking John into freedom, and JOhn did not see Jesus doing things in the way John believed and taught they would be done.... physically.

This is your ASSUMPTION. John never SAID that he expected and taught that anything would be done physically, or that he expected Christ to free him from prison.

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

That's what John expected. Let HIM tell YOU what he expected, rather than relying on your own assumption. John, an Israelite, called Jesus a Lamb of God to take away the sin of the world. He knew what Jesus was there to do. The lambs were SACRIFICED for sin. John's understanding was RIGHT ON.

The fact that he struggled with doubt as to the Messiah's identity does not mean he wished for physical fulfillment.

Joh 3:28  Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
Joh 3:29  He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
Joh 3:30  He must increase, but I must decrease.
Joh 3:31  He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Joh 3:32  And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

Here, John is applying spiritual discernment like no other man in the NT besides Christ at that point. He understood more than the disciples. He that "hath the bride is the bridegroom." And John is speaking about Christ's TESTIMONY. That's what it means that John must decrease. His testimony of Christ is no longer necessary, because Christ was there. Therefore, John had accomplished his purpose: to prepare the way for Christ.

As we know, the world or worldliness is what has to "disappear" or DECREASE in us as Christ INCREASES.  So you decide for yourself what spirit John and the old testament was.   

That's just it. I don't need to decide for myself. The scripture is SPIRIT BREATHED. The Old Testament scripture is of the Spirit of God.

[donken]

Hello Seth.   Have you ever been reading the scriptures and all of a sudden the verse or words you are looking at seemed to sort of waver, like looking through water at a lake or so, and you see something through the water below the water but it is sort of shimmering.   And you have an understanding of that verse or words that is different than what you thought it meant before.??

Or, have you just been out or lying in bed or sitting on the couch or doing something like that and all of a sudden a clarity about something of God comes to you, perhaps like a little drop of water on your head, and it is about something you had been asking about or such?

Thanks,  donken

[Seth]

Yes, I have had that happen. But I don't take my new revelations to invalidate certain scriptures over others. When that sort of thing happens, it actually unifies scripture for me more, rather than fracture the scripture and invalidate it.

[donken]

Hi Seth.  That is the beginning of the hidden manna new wine word.  That is what is given by God, and what the letter of scripture says in a worldly double minded and double purposed meaning {good AND evil in one package\person} is the OLD that is to pass away and be seen no more "by those who are receiving"  ALL will eventually receive, and today the church is now going to receive these things as a word, explanation, and understanding that will be ABOVE ALL OTHER understanding.  This is already beginning to come to pass and by the end of this year it will be very common {I believe}.  Life only always.   Death is abolished, and should be abolished out of our understanding of the words of scripture.

I remind us that it was the scriptures Israel trusted in and their understanding of scripture was not given to them by God, OBVIOUSLY, or they would not have rejected Christ if they knew the wisdom of God.  That is exactly what 1 Corinthians 2 is all about. The spirit of man can not know the things of God.

The natural or worldly or natural minded understanding of the letter of scripture according to the physical worldly meaning subjected to the meaning these words have in the world physically, does not reveal the meaning GOD has for the words.  That is how "the man of sin", which is simply an immature unspiritual believer, makes himself "out to be like God",  the mind and ways of NATURAL ADAM.   When thy king is a child it is not good.

Ecc_10:16  Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child, and thy princes eat in the morning!

It is the believer as a child that eats in the morning and thinks, naturally, that they are in the full light of day, that is the real problem here.

Unless WE see ourselves as a little child we shall in no way enter into the Kingdom of God {yet}.   The child has been ruling from the beginning of the creation.

Here is the SON that is "of the morning" or has some early light but has not seen the sun, like when it begins to get light in the world but the sun is not up yet, we only know that the sunlight is coming because of the light of the morning before the sun rises fully.
It is WE who say we will ascend into heaven etc, thinking we are already full.

Bless, donken.

[Seth]

I remind us that it was the scriptures Israel trusted in and their understanding of scripture was not given to them by God, OBVIOUSLY, or they would not have rejected Christ if they knew the wisdom of God.  That is exactly what 1 Corinthians 2 is all about. The spirit of man can not know the things of God.

There is a shadow and a body. BOTH the shadow and the body are holy. Finding spiritual meaning in a scripture, does not invalidate the historical meaning. That is why Peter CONFIRMED that God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with fire, as the OT says, AND then he added the spiritual meaning. He validated both. I would suggest that the manner in which the Apostles interpreted scripture is the way the rest of the church ought to do it.

[Cardinal]

Yes, I have had that happen. But I don't take my new revelations to invalidate certain scriptures over others. When that sort of thing happens, it actually unifies scripture for me more, rather than fracture the scripture and invalidate it.

:cloud9: Exactly.  :thumbsup: It builds UPON.

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

[Seth]

Hi.  Moses was faithful "IN" the house {body, and walked in the ways and mind of the word that is the ways of man in the world, natural man}.  Moses and the prophets and Israel etc. were the old man, the man that is to pass away at the establishing of the new man.  As said before, The spirit of Elijah as typified by John the Baptist, is to DECREASE, because that spirit is the old man belief, a carnal belief in God.  Sincere yes, but in a lie, yes.

Yes, I know you said that. The problem is that you cannot prove it. This is your method: You take a bit of scripture, and make an INFERENCE upon what it means. Then, you turn around and teach that inference as though the Bible itself literally SAYS it. That's an example what not to do.