Two types of knowledge

[WhiteWings]

דּעת / da‛ath (feminine noun)= knowledge/cunning attained by the mind.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.


ידע / yâda (root word of da'ath) = knowledge attained by the by the senses.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

[josh]

yada yada yada?

the hebrew word yada
is derived from the hebrew word daat
thus a suggestion that the mind knowledge of yada
is derived from the sense mind of knowledge of good and evil

seems to me suggest the knowledge daath is such that
what is visible to the senses should reveal knowledge of god..

Rom 1:20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

thus the senses are not what leads one to eat of the knowledge of good and evil?? or ??

hmmm and what is jesus speaking of here in terms of knowledge of good and evil
Joh 3:14  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

JUST SOME ASPECTS NOW FOR CONSIDERATION :)

YADA YADA YADA

[WhiteWings]

yada yada yada?

Another mistery solved.

seems to me suggest the knowledge daath is such that
what is visible to the senses should reveal knowledge of god..

Both, yada and daath can lead to the same conclusion/knowledge.
I can study a book to learn (daath) snakes bite. I can also stick my hand in a snake pit and learn (yada).
The end result of both ways of learning is that the knowledge is stored in your mind. Hands feel, noses smell, but they have no memory.

[josh]

for the suffering of jesus and his shed blood to bring salvation
it had to be suffered in full consciousness of his senses
he had to put his body in the snake pit so to speak
so that it could be accomplished with knowledge as jesus makes meniton in john 3

Joh 3:11  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Joh 3:14  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[gregoryfl]

Shalom WW,

There is indeed a distinction here between דעת and ידע.

ידע is the י (activity or working) of the דע (unflapped ד eye ע...i.e. eyes open to see). Hence, the action...to know.

דעת, on the other hand, is the ת (end result...i.e. 'x'...the ancient taw...marks the spot, the end of the journey, the last of the letters of creation) of the דע (unflapped ד eye ע...i.e. eyes open to see). Hence, the result...what people call knowledge.

The eyes were the primary gate through which one comes to know, according to ancient Semitic thought. The scripture you shared shows this very point, right from the beginning, even though the result of this 'eye opening' experience, was a distorted knowledge.

Ronen

[josh]

AH AND PER WHERE BOTH WORDS APPEAR TOGETHER IN A VERSE
THIS MIGHT BE OF INTEREST

Pro 17:27  One acquainted YADA  with knowledge DAATH is sparing his words, And the cool of temper is a man of understanding.
Pro 17:28  Even a fool keeping silence is reckoned wise, He who is shutting his lips intelligent!

Proverbs 17:27  He that hath knowledge spareth his words,.... Or, "he that knows knowledge" (c); one that is very knowing, has a fund of knowledge in him, "spareth his words"; is generally a man of few words, he thinks much and says little; and though he may be communicative of his knowledge to proper persons, and at proper times, yet never speaks of it in a boasting and ostentatious way: or, he "restrains his words" (d); he puts a bridle on them; and suffers not himself to speak hastily and angrily, and in a reproachful manner, when he is provoked to it;

VERSES WHERE THE 2 WORDS OCCUR TOGETHER ..

Num_24:16  He hath said,H5002 which heardH8085 the wordsH561 of God,H410 and knewH3045 the knowledgeH1847 of the most High,H5945 which sawH2372 the visionH4236 of the Almighty,H7706 fallingH5307 into a trance, but having his eyesH5869 open:H1540
Job_13:2  What ye know,H1847 the same do IH589 knowH3045 also:H1571 IH595 am notH3808 inferiorH5307 untoH4480 you.
Job_42:3  WhoH4310 is heH2088 that hidethH5956 counselH6098 withoutH1097 knowledge?H1847 thereforeH3651 have I utteredH5046 that I understoodH995 not;H3808 things too wonderfulH6381 forH4480 me, which I knewH3045 not.H3808
Pro_14:7  GoH1980 from the presenceH4480 H5048 of a foolishH3684 man,H376 when thou perceivestH3045 notH1077 in him the lipsH8193 of knowledge.H1847
Pro_17:27  He that hath knowledgeH3045 H1847 sparethH2820 his words:H561 and a manH376 of understandingH8394 is of an excellentH3368 spirit.H7307
Pro_29:7  The righteousH6662 considerethH3045 the causeH1779 of the poor:H1800 but the wickedH7563 regardethH995 notH3808 to knowH1847 it.
Pro_30:3  I neitherH3808 learnedH3925 wisdom,H2451 nor haveH3045 the knowledgeH1847 of the holy.H6918
Isa_40:14  (H853) With whomH4310 took he counsel,H3289 and who instructedH995 him, and taughtH3925 him in the pathH734 of judgment,H4941 and taughtH3925 him knowledge,H1847 and shewedH3045 to him the wayH1870 of understanding?H8394
Dan_1:4  ChildrenH3206 in whomH834 was noH369 H3605 blemish,H3971 but well favoured,H2896 H4758 and skilfulH7919 in allH3605 wisdom,H2451 and cunningH3045 in knowledge,H1847 and understandingH995 science,H4093 and suchH834 as had abilityH3581 in them to standH5975 in the king'sH4428 palace,H1964 and whom they might teachH3925 the learningH5612 and the tongueH3956 of the Chaldeans.H3778

[josh]

by what knows thru the senses
does that mean  just the physical senses
or can it mean too what one perceives spiritually
and if one perceives selfishly
in terms of eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil
then the resultant knowledge is distorted...

in terms of seeing and hearing
i have come to think of hearing as more linear and the required spiritual discipline
to have spiritual vision...
thus if one does not hear the word of god properly
one is not able to see god
perhaps this is in stages
the more one is obedient to hearing the word
the more one can be able to see god ...

[josh]

ah i think i got what kept giving me a feeling of being thrown off track some way..
that the 2 words suggest 2 types of knowledge
if that is what you meant

rather perhaps there are 2 ways to access the tree of knowledge of good and evil
which are reflected in a way in what jesus said in john 3

Joh 3:14  `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up,

yeppers it sure does behoove one to lift up the serpent...
USE KNOWLEDGE TO GIVE ALL GLORY TO GOD
RATHER THAN TO SEEK SELF GLORY..PUTTING ONES NEEDS ABOVE OTHERS...

so there are two ways of knowing that results in to kinds of state of mind

what might have been said in a sense
but now what i uh heard :)

[WhiteWings]

848 יָדַע (yādaʿ) know. (RSV, ASV similar.)
Derivatives
848a דֵַּע (dēaʿ) knowledge, opinion.
848b דֵּעָה (dēʿâ) knowledge.
848c דַּעַת (daʿat) knowledge.
848d יִדְּעֹנִי (yiddĕʿōnî) familiar spirit.
848e מוֹדַע (môdaʿ), מֹדַע (mōdaʿ) relative.
848f מֹדַעַת (mōdaʿat) kindred, kinship, only in Ruth 3:2.
848g מַדָּע (maddāʿ) knowledge.
848h מַדּוַּע (maddûaʿ), מַדַֻּע (maddūaʿ) why?
This root, occurring a total of 944 times, is used in every stem and expresses a multitude of shades of knowledge gained by the senses. Its closest synonyms are bîn "to discern" and nākar "to recognize." The root is found in Akkadian, Ugaritic, and the Qumran materials. In addition to "know," the KJV uses the archaic forms "wot" and "wist."
yādaʿ is used of God's knowledge of man (Gen 18:19; Deut 34:10) and his ways (Isa 48:8; Ps 1:6; 37:18), which knowledge begins even before birth (Jer 1:5). God also knows the fowl (Ps 50:11).
yādaʿ is also used for man's knowledge and for that of animals (Isa 1:3).
The participle occurs in phrases describing skill in hunting (Gen 25:27), learning (Isa 29:11–13), lamentation (Amos 5:16), sailing the sea (II Chr 8:18), and playing an instrument (I Sam 16:16).
In certain contexts it means "to distinguish." "To know good and evil" (Gen 3:5, 22) is the result of disobeying God. To distinguish between these is necessary for the king (II Sam 19:36). A child cannot distinguish between the left and right hands (Jon 4:11) nor between good and evil (Deut 1:39; Isa 7:15). The context of the latter passage and the similar statement in Isa 8:4 may indicate that the reference is to a child's not being able to distinguish what is beneficial and harmful. While ordinarily gained by experience, knowledge is also the contemplative perception possessed by the wise man (Prov 1:4; 2:6; 5:2; Eccl 1:18).
yādaʿ is used to express acquaintance with a person in such statements as "do you know Laban?" (Gen 29:5; Ex 1:8; II Sam 3:25). The Pual participle designates kinfolk (II Kgs 10:11, etc.) and acquaintances (Job 19:14; Ruth 2:1, etc.).
yādaʿ is also used for the most intimate acquaintance. God knows Moses by name and face to face (Ex 33:17; Deut 34:10). He knows the Psalmist's sitting and arising (Ps 139:2).
yādaʿ is also used for sexual intercourse on the part of both men and women in the well-known euphemism "Adam knew Eve his wife" and its parallels (Gen 4:1; 19:8; Num 31:17, 35; Jud 11:39; 21:11; I Kgs 1:4; I Sam 1:19). It is used to describe sexual perversions such as sodomy (Gen 19:5; Jud 19:22) and rape (Jud 19:25).
In addition to knowledge of secular matters yādaʿ is also used of one's relation to the divine, whether acquaintance with other gods (Deut 13:3, 7, 14) or with Jehovah (I Sam 2:12; 3:7). The heathen do not know God (Jer 10:25) and neither does Israel, according to the prophets (Jer 4:22). The plagues of Egypt were sent so that the Egyptians might know that Jehovah is God (Ex 10:2, etc.). He will destroy (Ezk 6:7) and restore Israel so that they may know that he is God (Isa 60:16). The prophet Ezekiel, in particular, uses the phrase "that you may know" in his threats (Ezk 6:7, 10, 13, 14; 7:4, 9, 27, etc.).
דֵּעָה (dēʿâ). Knowledge. This feminine noun is translated gnōsis in the LXX, and scientia in the Vulgate. The Lord is a God of all knowledge (Job 36:4; I Sam 2:3). The wicked question his knowledge (Ps 73:11). He is the object of man's knowledge, and Isaiah envisions an earth full of the knowledge of the Lord (Isa 11:9). The prophet preaches knowledge (Isa 28:9) and the ideal ruler rules by it (Jer 3:15). The noun may be only another form of daʿat (see below). The masculine noun dēaʿ is quite similar.
דַּעַת (daʿat). Knowledge, cunning (ASV and RSV similar). This feminine noun is from the root yādaʿ "to know." The root expresses knowledge gained in various ways by the senses. The noun occurs ninety-three times in the Old Testament, most frequently in the wisdom literature, with forty-one instances in Prov, ten in Job, and nine in Eccl. It is used forty-two times in the Qumran materials and is also used in Ugaritic and Akkadian.
daʿat is a general term for knowledge, particularly that which is of a personal, experimental nature (Prov 24:5). It is also used for technical knowledge or ability such as that needed for building the tabernacle and temple (Ex 31:3; 35:31; I Kgs 7:14). daʿat is also used for discernment (Ps 119:66). Both deeds committed unintentionally (Deut 4:42; 19:4; Josh 20:3, 5; bĕlîdaʾat) and mistaken opinions are "without knowledge" (lōʾ daʿat, Prov 19:2).
daʿat is possessed by God (Job 10:7; Ps 139:6; Prov 3:20), from whom nothing can be hidden (Ps 139:1–18). He teaches it to man (Ps 94:10; 119:66; Prov 2:6). It appears parallel with wisdom (ḥōkmâ) and understanding (tĕbûnâ), instruction (mûsār), and law (tôrâ). Wisdom is used in series with "science" (maddāʿ, Dan 1:4) and is the opposite of "folly" (ʾiwwelet, Prov 12:23; 13:16; 14:18; 15:2). Hence daʿat is the contemplative perception of the wise man (Prov 1:4; 2:6; 5:2; Eccl 1:18).
daʿat is also used for moral cognition. Thus the tree in the Garden of Eden was a tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen 2:9, 17). By eating its fruit man came to know in a way comparable to the knowledge of God (see above). This important reference may also be taken as the figure of speech known as merism to indicate objective awareness of all things both good and bad. In this sense the sinful pain did become like God (Gen 3:22). Cassuto says, "Before they ate of the tree of knowledge, the man and his wife were like small children who know nought of what exists round them" (U. Cassuto, Genesis, vol. I, p. 112).
Particularly distinctive is the prophetic concept of "knowledge of God" (daʿatʾ ĕlōhîm) which is particularly prominent in Hosea (4:1, 6; 6:6; cf. Prov 2:5). Knowledge of God is derived from those outstanding historical events in which God has evidenced and has revealed himself to chosen individuals such as Abraham and Moses. These revelations are to be taught to others. "Knowledge of God" appears in parallel with "fear of the Lord" (yirʾat YW Isa 11:2: cf. 58:2; Jer 22:16) as a description of true religion. The man who has a right relation with God confesses him and obeys him. To do justice and righteousness and to judge the cause of the poor and the needy is to know God (Jer 22:15–16). On the other hand where there is no knowledge of God there is swearing, lying, killing, stealing, committing adultery and breaking all bonds (Hos 4:1–2). Such will bring destruction upon a people (Hos 4:6; cf. Isa 5:13). Knowledge of God is more pleasing to him than sacrifice (Hos 6:6). The prophetic view of the messianic age is of a time in which the knowledge of God covers the earth as water covers the sea (Hab 2:14; cf. Isa 11:9).
Harris, R. L., Harris, R. L., Archer, G. L., Waltke, B. K., Harris, R. L., Archer, G. L., & Waltke, B. K. (1999). Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (electronic ed.) (366). Chicago: Moody Press.

[micah7:9]

Gen 4:1  And Adam knew(yada) Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

[josh]

WINGS
where did you get

848 יָדַע (yādaʿ) know. (RSV, ASV similar.)
Derivatives
848a דֵַּע (dēaʿ) knowledge, opinion.
848b דֵּעָה (dēʿâ) knowledge.
848c דַּעַת (daʿat) knowledge.
848d יִדְּעֹנִי (yiddĕʿōnî) familiar spirit.
848e מוֹדַע (môdaʿ), מֹדַע (mōdaʿ) relative.
848f מֹדַעַת (mōdaʿat) kindred, kinship, only in Ruth 3:2.
848g מַדָּע (maddāʿ) knowledge.
848h מַדּוַּע (maddûaʿ), מַדַֻּע (maddūaʿ) why?
This root, occurring a total of 944 times, is used in every stem and expresses a multitude of shades of knowledge gained by the senses. Its closest synonyms are bîn "to discern" and nākar "to recognize." The root is found in Akkadian, Ugaritic, and the Qumran materials. In addition to "know," the KJV uses the archaic forms "wot" and "wist."
yādaʿ is used of God's knowledge of man (Gen 18:19; Deut 34:10) and his ways (Isa 48:8; Ps 1:6; 37:18), which knowledge begins even before birth (Jer 1:5). God also knows the fowl (Ps 50:11).

did you mean maybe strong's h1847

OH THAT WOULD BE FROM
Harris, R. L., Harris, R. L., Archer, G. L., Waltke, B. K., Harris, R. L., Archer, G. L., & Waltke, B. K. (1999). Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (electronic ed.) (366). Chicago: Moody Press.
IS THAT AVAILABLE ONLINE
IT RINGS A BELL THO AS A BOOK I MIGHT HAVE PICKED UP ALONG THE WAY...

[josh]

trying to sum up the issue of disobedience by way of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

a way to do this perhaps is consideration of a verse from the parable of the unjust steward..
found only in luke..

Luk 16:8  And the lord commended the unjust steward because he had done discreetly; for the sons of this age are in their generation more prudent than the sons of light.

so what might be going on in that verse..
that tho it can count for nonbelievers when for self benefit as a by product they benefit others  in need tho it seems as if it did not benefit the master who fired the guy...
still this works is seen as something as wise given the circumstances of those of this world..but such doed not work for those who have the true knowledge ...that one should in all things give glory to god and not seek self glory and should rather seek to always consider the needs of others before one's own...oprah new age philosophy not withstanding :)... so what then is the thing forbidden in eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.... ..that one not use knowledge for putting self above others but rather always use knowledge always by considering the needs of others before one's own...

[sheila]

could mean..the 'church' who had stewardship of the flock[jewish leaders] and were unjust

  and ready to loose their 'special priviledged position,.. would benefit in being wise like a serpent.......

  and start forgiving all the 'sinners' that they accused of sin debt[forgive those who sin against

you and your Father will forgive you] by their man made doctrines.[lessen the debt of sin on their

fellowman that they had erronously accounted against them.   :Chinscratch:

[josh]

THE FALL

Self and the Serpent

The serpent in the Garden represents SELF. It is self without regard for the Whole or for other beings. It is the self that seeks self-gratification, self-glorification, self-aggrandizement, self-centeredness. But in order for the potential companions of God to be true companions, they had to have a strong sense of self. As the Cayce readings state it: "That he may know himself to be himself and yet one with the Father [the Creator]"(#815-7). Therefore, despite the dangers inherent in the development of self-consciousness, it was allowed because it was and remains the way to full realization of our role as divine companions. Yet, it often becomes a stumbling block.

[mod edit - link removed.  the above is from a source not considered reputable by moderation of TM]

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Again......Edgar Cayce was an unwitting (I hope for his sake) channeler of a demonic spirit. Not one bit different than the witch of Endor, and under the law God said not to suffer a witch to live, and calls it an abomination. Partaking of that sin, is as the sin of necromancy, essentially seeking out spirits that are NOT GOD to supply answers and direction. He was, what's called a "trance medium".

Popularity of this sort of deception is rampant, because people are crying out to touch into the spiritual, not realizing there is a very dark side, that's very subtle, that looks like good works are being done, but is just as deadly to the soul as if they became card carrying Satanists.

While I have sympathy on his ignorance because even today a great many even in the churches have been taught it's ok to drink this "New Age" kool-aide, the fact remains he was someone whom the enemy of our souls, who is NOT JUST "SELF", used mightily to further the seducing spirits that were to be present in our time, and are present.

And I will go one step further, for any who are so inclined, even bringing a book of this sort into your home, has a "surprise" inside, and causes the scripture to become active in your life, bring not the unclean thing into your home, lest you worship that thing.

The article is a stronghold, something for it to inhabit, until it's gets the "go-ahead" via your action of obtaining it, that brings you under the law to kill that flesh, and inhabit YOU. This is why Paul said, the idol is not anything, but the SPIRIT behind the idol.

When I was in deliverance, there was never one time, that demonic activity in a home, could not be traced to some form of witchcraft going on, either by the adults or the kids. Fortune tellers, Ouija boards, Dungeons and Dragons types of so-called "games", New Age materials, numerologists, psychics, channelers like Cayce, tarot cards, astrologers, "white witches", and on and on and on, ad nauseam, all have a built in curse you take on the second you participate in any of them. My  :2c: Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

WINGS
where did you get

.....................

did you mean maybe strong's h1847

OH THAT WOULD BE FROM
Harris, R. L., Harris, R. L., Archer, G. L., Waltke, B. K., Harris, R. L., Archer, G. L., & Waltke, B. K. (1999). Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (electronic ed.) (366). Chicago: Moody Press.
IS THAT AVAILABLE ONLINE
IT RINGS A BELL THO AS A BOOK I MIGHT HAVE PICKED UP ALONG THE WAY...

Strong numbering (Hebrew/Greek) is most widely known numbering (I think)
TWOT numbering is Hebrew only.


Strong numbering:
- Most widely know (I think)
- Free
- Hebrew and Greek
- Basic defenitions. A better free alternative is BDB/Thayer/Strong Definitions


TWOT numbering:
- More scholary
- Not free AFAIK
- Hebrew only



It likely doesn't come as a suprise the free Strong isn't the only Lexicon and the most basic. Lexicons can be quite expensive but I've seen electronic TWOT versions that plug into a Bible program for something like $30.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  Bex...spring up togather........like the wayof a serpent on a rock when the sun shines on

... it.....the serpent becomes enlivened[livelier][resurrection of the wicked and righteous[false/true]

[sheila]

....when the tare 'doctrine of eternal torment/destruction is removed from the person..and the

salvation of all men is declared of the wheat.......that same spirit goes and gets seven other spirits

  for a total of eight[satan released of the abyss] and brings them with him..to occupy the

feild,resulting in the camp of the .  Holy city He loves being surrounded.

   it appears a worse condition....but it is but satan being released to go to his doom........

    because the righteous[truth] is encompassed of the wicked[tares] righteous judgement does not

  go frth.   God Himself will take care of this. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Sheila, can you explain this more? It's not "hitting" me yet....how are you seeing that as being Satan released? He's been giving me something similar lately......Blessings...

[sheila]

  Bex,sorryso long in reply..my brother come in..had to take Brandee to doctor/pharmacy...run errands

  soon as get these errands done,and my sister come in, too .will tryand put into  words.

  my house has been grand central today!!! :friendstu:

[sheila]

  let's try..........babylon immediately becomes active when men enter special covenant relationship

  with God[He is No respector of persons]  she lifts herself up and says..'I am and there is no-one

else" in pride and haughtiness...her flesh can Not please Him[flesh and blood can not please God]

     ...it is the female counterpart of satan/spirit..she does not love her Husband or her children....

    she is cast down and rejected[there is no throne] give back to her twice as much of the luxury

she dwelt in.  the announcement that all men shall be saved,given the free gift/grace..without

respect of persons...is her downfall.  just as the remnant of Israel learned when grace extended

unto the gentiles/people despized by Israel[dogs /harlots/tax collectors etc]   

   we can expect the remnant/leavening  to the third measure..to also do as some of the judaizers

   did when they shrank back[law covenant/regulations etc] and tried to impose such things

  on the gentile believers.  In other words...to try and impose some of christendoms  things

on the the 'all' measure.  HE IS POURING OUT HIS SPIRIT ON ALL FLESH FOR THE THIRD MEASURE

   just as He did on the gentiles. 

   now the 1000 yr reign is His victory over all enemies/impediment  against the salvation of all men

  and the salvation of ALL MEN is the destruction of the beast/false prophecy of the goodnews

destruction of Babylon and the abyssing of satan[wheat sown in day in the feild]...the abyssing

of satan[bound under the earth...and tare sown in the night..following the DAY[1000 yr REIGN

/ wheat /All men saved/remnant/seed/leavening portion/seed in the barn] REIGN of CHRIST....
.

   the tares springing up..is satan[adversary] released from the abyss to go forth and deceive

and fight against the 'camp of the Holy city[all men saved/remnant/leavening/seed]  til fire comes

down from heaven[pour out my spirit on All Flesh]

   the 'churches[overcome] are the ties that bind[/Babylon has become a cage of unclean

birds/spirits.......]  just as in Elijah's showdown..prophet's of Baal/groves Asherah on Mt Carmel

   God will show whose 'sacrifice of the lips' He accepts..by bringing fire down from heaven to accept

it..........christendoms eternal fire doctrine[Jezebels prophet's of Baal] the groves/Asherah poles

  or Elijah that makes ready a people for the coming of the Lord...that takes away ALL their sins

    and proclaims..'repent. make STRAIGHT YOUR WAY..He will  burn the chaff and gather His wheat

into the barn......satan holds great masses of men in various deceptions to fight against

Christ and God and the Holy city........but the plague of death stops there at the threshing floor.

  all the tares springing up are the various errors[deceptions]of the adversary that fight against

  the salvation of ALL men that God worked through His son,Jesus Christ.

  be it imperfection/weakness of men's flesh/ accusations of sin against men caught in the

act/deceptions/lying signs. demonic possession.etc,  NOTHING WILL SUCCEED.... GOD IS NOT

COUNTING MEN'S TRESSPASSES AGAINST THEM..HAS FREELY GIVEN THE GIFT OF ETERNAL LIFE

TO ALL MEN....HE HAS JUDGED ALL MEN........WRAPPED THEM ALL UP IN DISOBEDIENCE IN ORDER

TO HAVE MERCY ON THEM ALL[sin in flesh condemned in all men]...saints and sinners alike..

Free gift of eternal life through Grace to All men...........until it is all wrapped up men may grow

in appreciation,understanding  and obedience and maturity spiritually..in the REVELATION

  OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE SONS OF GOD[all men..even prodigals] FROM HEAVEN..and

  be as the camp of the Holy city[seed/remnant leavening]

   I' sure there is more,Bex, and a clearer writing of these things is to be desired..but seems

  beyond me rightnow[been distracted by much company etc..going's on]


ps....people that realize all are saved but have mix or truth/lies/deceptions in their understanding

are like the tares that spring up with the wheat[satan out of the abyss to deceive[resurrection of

the righteous/wheat/man saved ....and the wicked/tares/liar/error etc satan's doom/wicked..to fight

against the camp of the Holy city]   I feel that what we need to grasp is all men are righteous

because of Jesus Christ and Father..but all not Holy/sanctified at present..until He pours out

  His spirit on ALL Flesh.... :friendstu:

[josh]

thoughts on sheila reply 19 i think...

how it is that evil is allowed by god so as to destroy it
  2 thess 2
MY COMMENTS IN TEXT AS CAPS
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,THE FALLING AWAY OF ANY SELF DECEPTIONS TO HAVING THE FULL TRUTH MUST BE ERADICATED FOR PERFECTION OF THE SOUL [AT SOME POINT WHETHER THIS IN THIS PASSAGE IS ERADICATION OF ALL SELF DECEPTIONS OR JUST THE MORE SERIOUS ONES..SATAN AS ONE'S OWN PAST VAIN IMAGINATIONS AND SELF DECEPTIONS THAT DARKENED ONE'S HEART<ROMANS CHAPTER 1 and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? NOW COULDNT PAUL BE MORE CLEAR OR WAS IT MEANT TO BE CONCEALED DURING THE GENTILE TIMES OF THE CHURCH THAT BOTH ALLOWED THE CHURCH TO GROW BUT WHICH TOO WOULD EXPOSE  THE LACK OF FULL MATURITY OF THE CHURCH PLUS INDIVIDUAL SOULS WHO COULD HAVE FULLY MATURED BUT WENT ALONG WITH THE CHURCH IMMMATURE GENTILE DOCTRINES...NOW AS TO THOSE WHO REJECT REINCARNATION AS NOT ONE OF THE MYSTERIES OF THE BIBLE THAT ONE DAY WILL BE ACCEPTED..WHICH THO IS A SIGN OF A LACK OF TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MYSTERIES OF THE BIBLE AND WHAT IS INVOLVED IN UNIVERSAL SALVATION
2Th 2:6  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity<HERE I THINK IT MIGHT BE SAID THAT NOT ALL IMMATURE FALSE DOCTRINES OF THE CHURCH ARE NECESSARILY THE MARK OF INIQUITY BUT PERHAPS BETTER SAID A MARK OF IMMATURITY AND LACK OF FULL KNOWLEDGE OF THE MYSTERIES THAT GOD ALLOWS THO FOR THE SAKE OF THE GROWTH OF THE CHURCH WHICH THO UPON MATURITY WILL BE PURGED FROM THE CHURCH .BOTH AS DENOMINATIONS AND INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF VARIOUS VALID CHRUCH DENOMINATIONS ]doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness<WHERE SOME IMMATURE CHURCH DOCTRINES THO WRONG ARE NOT NECESSARITY FOR THE PURPOSE OF DECEPTION AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS . IN FACT ARE ESSENTIAL FOR THE GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE CHURCH DURING THE GENTILE TIMES ..SEE LATER IN THIS POST ON SOMETHING ABOUT THE SYMBOLIC USE OF GENTILES IN SCRIPTURE #! in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

#1 THIS IS LATER  ON THE SYMBOLIC MEANING OF GENTILES IN SCRIPTURE
FROM THE CHAPTER IN THE OLD TESTAMENT THAT HAS THE MOST QUOTED LINE USED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT..

Psa 110:1  A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand [until I make thine enemies thy footstool. ]<MOST QUOTED OLD TESTAMENT PASSAGE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
Psa 110:2  The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion; rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Psa 110:3  Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,<THY PEOPLE AS THE THOUGHTS OF THE YET IMMATURE BABY CHRISTIAN WHEN THEY ARE READY TO BE EXPOSED PURGED AND RENEWED SO THAT IT MIGHT ATTAIN BEYOND THE RENEWED HEART TO THE RENEWED MIND in the beauty of holiness; as the dew which falls from the womb of the morning, thus shall those who are thine be born unto thee.
Psa 110:4  The LORD has sworn and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Psa 110:5  The Lord at thy right hand shall smite the kings in the day of his wrath.
Psa 110:6  He shall judge among the Gentiles; he shall fill their places with dead bodies;< SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE REMAININD INDWELLING SINS ARE PURGED IN ORDER TO RENEW THE MIND ..THEY BECOME DEAD BODIES THAT DD NOT GO TO WASTE AS THEY SERVE AS FOOD FOR THOUGHT IN TERMS OF LESSONS OF REMAINING ASPECTS OF SINFUL SELF DECEPTION SOURCES IN THE SUBCONSCIOUS IN THE BABY BELIEVER he shall wound the head over much of the earth.
Psa 110:7  He shall drink of the brook in the way; therefore he shall lift up his head. 

ANOTHER Q.E.D. BY JOSH :)