Snatched From the Fire

[FreeAtLast]

Jude 23---And others save with fear,snatching them out of the fire,hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

what do you get out of this verse and what it is talking about ??

Is this Fire the lake of Fire or Second Death ??

[josh]

putting this in context

Jud 1:15  "to do judgment against all, and to rebuke all" the ungodly of them concerning all their ungodly works which they ungodly did, "and concerning all the hard things ungodly sinners spoke against Him." I Enoch 1:9; 5:4; 60:8
Jud 1:16  These are murmurers, complainers, going according to their lusts, and their mouth speaks proud things, admiring faces for the sake of gain.
Jud 1:17  But you, beloved, remember the words spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Jud 1:18  because they told you that at the last time there will be mockers following ungodlinesses according to their lusts.
Jud 1:19  These are they setting themselves apart, animal-like ones, not having the Spirit.
Jud 1:20  But you, beloved, building yourselves up by your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
Jud 1:21  keep yourselves in the love of God, eagerly awaiting the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to everlasting life.
Jud 1:22  And pity some, making a distinction.
Jud 1:23  But save others with fear, snatching them out of the fire, hating even the garment being stained from the flesh.
Jud 1:24  Now to Him being able to keep you without stumbling, and to set you before His glory without blemish, with unspeakable joy;
Jud 1:25  to the only wise God, our Savior, be glory and majesty and might and authority, even now and forever. Amen.



I SUSPECT SEVERAL LEVELS...
LOOKING FIRST AT A SYMBOLIC KIND
WHERE ANGELS ARE ONE'S OWN THOUGHTS
AND EVEN AS A BELIEVER THERE REMAINS INDWELLING SINS
THAT RESIST MOVING FROM A BABY BELIEVER WITH  A RENEWED HEART
TO A MATURE BELIEVER THAT HAS RENEWED TOO HIS MIND

if one would deal with other members of a church
and rebuke them for the harm they might cause
it would behoove one to look within
and deal with and purge one's remaining indwelling sin

this is what i think is going on in psalm 119 that has the most quoted passage from the old testament in the new testament..

Psa 110:4  The LORD has sworn and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Psa 110:5  The Lord at thy right hand shall smite the kings in the day of his wrath.
Psa 110:6  He shall judge among the Gentiles; he shall fill their places with dead bodies; he shall wound the head over much of the earth.

I THINK THE GENTILES THAT THE MESSIAH IS TO JUDGE AND KILL AND FILL UP PLACES WITH THEIR DEAD BODIES
ARE SYMBOLICALLY THE REMAINING INDWELLING SINS THAT A BELIEVERS NEEDS TO SEE AND BE PURGED OF ...

ONCE ONE IS MATURED THEN ONE IS MORE ABLE TO REBUKE OTHER MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH
namely such in the church who are as the gill bible commentary suggests

Jude 1:16  These are murmurers,.... That is, at others; secretly, inwardly, in a muttering way, grunting out their murmurs like swine; to which, for their filthiness and apostasy, false teachers may be filly compared

AND ONCE REBUKED PROPERLY IF THEY DO NOT REPENT
TO do AS PAUL DID EXCOMMUNICATE THEM FROM THE CHURCH

[Seth]

Jude 23---And others save with fear,snatching them out of the fire,hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

what do you get out of this verse and what it is talking about ??

Is this Fire the lake of Fire or Second Death ??

IMHO, yes, in a manner of speaking, when we consider what the fire symbolizes.

James 3
5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by Gehenna

Gehenna fire represents the destructive nature of sin and James is making the point that the smallest part of our body used for sinful purposes can lead the entire body into that kind of "fire" which "burns" us up because fire causes collapse, and ruin.

This is what I believe Jesus meant when he said to the Pharisees:

Matthew 23:33
Snakes! Sons of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of Gehenna?

Being caught up in spiritual Gehenna is part of the very first judgment we see in the Bible: Adam brought sin into the world and death by sin. Jesus is asking them, how shall you escape that judgment if you don't believe in him? When you believe in Christ, you receive life through the Spirit. That life saves from sin, saves from the spiritual condition of Gehenna described by James above.

That is why Jesus says that those who do not believe are "judged already" in John 3. That's because EVERYONE is born in Adam and must make transition to being in Christ for life.

Matthew 5:22
but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of Gehenna fire.

People take this verse to mean that Jesus is threatening an eternity in Hell for saying a single word! Really, Jesus is warning them the same way James is warning them. Don't let your tongue lead you into sin. It starts with calling your brother a fool, and the next thing you know you are plotting to kill him. See how a single word can put you in danger of your whole body on fire of Gehenna?

That's what snatching people from the fire means. It means to warn the same way Jesus and James warned. If they believe the Gospel they receive spiritual water to put out the spiritual fire that could destroy them if they heed not the Gospel.

This is why he associates the fire with "hating even the garment being stained from the flesh." He's talking about sin there, and the rescue from sin by the Spirit when received and walked in.

[marie glen]

Jude 23---And others save with fear,snatching them out of the fire,hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

what do you get out of this verse and what it is talking about ??

Is this Fire the lake of Fire or Second Death ??

the lake of fire, the scripture says, is the second death, it's my opinion it is where all would go, if not for God's Great Plan of Salvation.. that we are all learning we cannot abandon God for He is Life itself.. I believe we are all snatched out of the fire/nonlife/opposite of God/Life/Perfection.
            :smile:

p.S - in rev 19, the two who are thrown into the LOF are not living beings.. but are institutions of man active at the 'end', the world beast/body and the false prophet/teaching which 'prophet' (teaching, great delusion) overthrew a civilization without a shot being fired.

..and by time the end of judgment day (doa; fulfillment of fall holy day, day of atonement) any who do not believe (names not in the book) will go to the LOF, but after having been resurrected and witnessed and lived through a LoNg day of the examination of all human history, etc... who's not going to "BELIEVE"???
:hiya: :smile:

[WhiteWings]

the lake of fire, the scripture says, is the second death, it's my opinion it is where all would go, if not for God's Great Plan of Salvation..

Second isn't about order. Second is merely stating this is the second type of death. Purely looking at the word itself it could mean there is also a third, forth, etc type of death. But once again it isn't about the order those deaths occur in. Of course nowehere in the Bible a 3rd, 4th, etc death is mentioned. My point is that the 2nd-type-of-death can come before or after the 1st-type-of-death.
Imo the 1st-type-of-death is, let's call it, the secular/natural type of death as atheists view it.
The 2nd-type-of-death is 'die to oneself'. Give up you carnal ways and be reborn in Christ.

For me the 2nd-type-of-death is about becoming/learning how Father always wanted life to be lived. Some take that step during this earthly lifetime others are forced to take that step when cast into LoF.
LoF is God's great launderette  :winkgrin:

[marie glen]

the lake of fire, the scripture says, is the second death, it's my opinion it is where all would go, if not for God's Great Plan of Salvation..

Second isn't about order. Second is merely stating this is the second type of death. Purely looking at the word itself it could mean there is also a third, forth, etc type of death. But once again it isn't about the order those deaths occur in. Of course nowehere in the Bible a 3rd, 4th, etc death is mentioned. My point is that the 2nd-type-of-death can come before or after the 1st-type-of-death.
Imo the 1st-type-of-death is, let's call it, the secular/natural type of death as atheists view it.
The 2nd-type-of-death is 'die to oneself'. Give up you carnal ways and be reborn in Christ.

For me the 2nd-type-of-death is about becoming/learning how Father always wanted life to be lived. Some take that step during this earthly lifetime others are forced to take that step when cast into LoF.
LoF is God's great launderette  :winkgrin:

..I see it as a potential and potentiality, as destruction, and actually don't believe any one ends up going to the LOF! :smile:

.. yes, i see it as destruction, a second dying/nonlife - the truth of this potential i believe the Father is 'searing' and 'burning' deep into every psyche -

that one cannot wander from God (who iS life). To my mind this is simplicity and logic and easy for all to understand, communication being His goal - That to turn from God is to walk away from life.. 

:Peace2: :smile: God bless!

..and the lesson of all this - life as imPefect - is how 'life' without God, utterly fails.. burns and crashes.. All history, every life, the same story.. burning and crashing because of lack of God and closeness to Him (who is life & perfection).. So turn from God ='s imperfect, and imperfect ='s opposite of life. A universal and foundation truth He is teaching to all "in heaven and earth"

..note how all earthly fiery destruction, including after satan is released after the 1000 years, is before final judgment day.. surely a very loong day.. at the end of which is said those not believing will go to the LOF along with hell/the grave the last enemy to be subdued...

But who? after being resurrected, etc, isn't going to "believe"? (be written in the BOL)

[Seth]

I believe only those defined in scripture are in the LOF, a fire unto themselves, which called death. Lying, unbelieving, sorcerers, whoremongers. Those things ARE death. God calls that "fuel for the fire."

Isaiah 9:18-20
His anger is not turned away, his hand is still upraised. Surely WICKEDNESS burns like a fire; it consumes briers and thorns, it sets the forest thickets ablaze, so that it rolls upward in a column of smoke. By the wrath of the Lord Almighty the land will be scorched and the people will be fuel for the fire; they will not spare one another. On the right they will devour, but still be hungry; on the left they will eat, but not be satisfied.

Spiritual death. Second death, where the "smoke of their torment" rises up. I do not believe anyone who is being pruned by the Lord is currently in this "lake of fire," but they have come out of the valley onto Mt. Zion where there is another fire, one that is placed in their mouths, called The Gospel. They are in the fire which tries them, but does not destroy them the way wickedness does.

[WhiteWings]

But who? after being resurrected, etc, isn't going to "believe"? (be written in the BOL)

Seeing is believing. Satan is a believer to. Even more, he personally met God. But still he ends up in LoF. So more that belief is required to avoid Revelation's LoF.

[josh]

BEING PLUCKED FROM THE FIRE....

A CASE OF THE HIGH PRIEST WHEN THE JEWS WERE REBUILDING THE TEMPLE
BEING PLUCKED FROM THE FIRE...

Zec 3:2  And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

IN CONTEXT..
Zec 3:1  And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zec 3:2  And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
Zec 3:3  Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zec 3:4  And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zec 3:5  And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.
Zec 3:6  And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
Zec 3:7  Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
Zec 3:8  Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.

FROM SAID CONTEXT ..JOSHUA BECAME WITHOUT SIN?  THUS HE COULD BE BORN AS THE MESSIAH IS WHAT I THINK AND THUS ZECHARIAH IS SAYING THIS SUCH AS IN VERSE 8 ABOVE...
THUS ONE PLUCKED FROM THE FIRE BECAME THE MESSIAH IN A LATER LIFETIME...

[Seth]

I believe that Joshua symbolizes Christ and his increase. Christ was always without sin, but his increase was not always without it, they must be cleansed.

Zec 3:3  Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zec 3:4  And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

To have your filthy garments cleaned is not just about forgiveness, but also sanctification. Cleansing is done by water. Christ died to be reborn into a life giving spirit, rivers of life giving water. That is how I believe Jerusalem (the chuch) is plucked OUT of the fire.

[donken]

Good afternoon.    There are two fires.  One is a physical fire that consumes physical things such as wood, hay, stubble, etc.

But there is a Spiritual fire also, the indwelling deep active LOVE OF GOD that consumes all spiritual wood, hay, and stubble in us that clouds our eyes.

God bless,  donken

[Seth]

From what I see in scripture, there is more than one application of spiritual fire in the Bible.

"Wickedness is as a fire"
"Our God is a consuming fire"

Two separate, distinct, spiritual applications of physical fire, which in my opinion should not be confused with eachother.

[donken]

Hello Seth.   Yes, I agree.  I think the difference is in what I mean but is not very clearly said perhaps.  In regard to your reply it says wickedness is AS A FIRE, not "is a fire".   But the work of wickedness is destructive and destroys things like fire destroys physical things, yes.

Wickedness is of the flesh, and when I speak of spiritual fire I mean the fire that is only of God, which is also in line with the Spirit that *GIVES* Life.

I believe that if we believe we are given life by God, the I would say that the Spirit that GIVES life is God and only God does that.  Even the life man gives to his offspring is the same life that God gave to man and is just passed on by man, not originated by man.  That originator would be, for me, the Spirit that GIVES life.  In Him, Life, we all move and live and have our being and without Him, {life} nothing is made.

I mean, one would either have to be the Spirit that is life, or something that had life originally, life being a part of who\what they are, or they are life period as in the Spirit of Life invisible.

I see that even if God were not life itself, meaning the spirit of life, but only had life in him, then God would be dependent on LIFE from his own existence and would not be and could not be the God of ALL things.    I am presenting the possiblity that LIFE is THE SPIRIT, Life is Holy without any death causing things or emotions or thoughts, and without life nothing, even God, exists.

I share all things from the perspective that LIFE Is who God is, the spirit of life.  Anything alive that was not life itself would be dependent on and subject to remaining alive by obeying life, the life in it.  That would not be God, but it will be THE SON in the world.


Isa 33:14  The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 33:15  He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Isa 33:16  He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure.
Isa 33:17  Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off.

God bless, donken

[marie glen]

Good afternoon.    There are two fires.  One is a physical fire that consumes physical things such as wood, hay, stubble, etc.

But there is a Spiritual fire also, the indwelling deep active LOVE OF GOD that consumes all spiritual wood, hay, and stubble in us that clouds our eyes.

God bless,  donken

:thumbsup:  :iagree:  I also agree that God is Life, itself.. the life force.. who or what else could be, is how I think of it.. "In the beginning - God.."

I like what you wrote about if God wasn't Life.. He would be dependent on something other than His self! :o

I think God is Life and also is Perfection. (So when He endowed thinking ability to angel and man, a whole new world, or tree, of possibilities was formed..)

I also believe He has done every single thing (of course) in order to bring about the very best of all possibilities.. Of course He could see all possibilities from the 'beginning'... And Perfection makes no mistakes, loses nothing. I am not sure the conversion of the 2nd resurrection will require anything any more stringent than the conversion of all those of the first. Is His will any less strong and able.. but I am straying.. sorry!!

But that does remind me of "the fire".. There is  :iagree: His burning Spirit of passionate love and holiness/purity which burns away our dross, and of physical fire, Peter says "the elements will melt with a fervent heat" - physical fire cleanses earthly wood, hay, stubble, or rather consumes.. but also cleanses in that it is surely a great lesson? Bringing home to every heart and mind, what utter failure life without God is, who irony of ironies, iS life.. Talk about building on sand!! I see the grave, which will be thrown into the LOF, as a very true possibility for all creatures, angel and human; because the result of imperfection, the opposite of God, is "death", the opposite of "Life".

Potential! Not that it WILL happen.. Perfection loses nothing!! But that it is a potential. Always we will know we were "snatched from the fire"!! We almost fell into the pit! We almost perished!! But He grabbed us at the very edge and precipice, and delivered us! Then put His Spirit in us, transforming us, and the full salvation from imPerfection, the cause of death/nonlife/perishing, will be fully manifest on that Day when Jesus returns, when we shall put on incorruptibility.. (More God/Life!!) And surely all will know good from evil (life from death) and will fuLLy know the utter futility of trying to turn away from, or abandon, God!!!

[marie glen]

From what I see in scripture, there is more than one application of spiritual fire in the Bible.

"Wickedness is as a fire"
"Our God is a consuming fire"

Two separate, distinct, spiritual applications of physical fire, which in my opinion should not be confused with eachother.

  :iagree: :thumbsup: Wickedness (like is said of the tongue) can start a mighty fire and set a world aflame.. also, the wages, or result and consequence of wickedness is death.. so wickedness consumes our life, destroys us...

But "God is love" and His purity consumes or 'burns' away our imperfections/sin/dross, and all wickedness!

Like He told Moses "tell the people to stay back! lest I break forth and consume them!" was noT "O I  hate them so much I might not be able to control myself, won't be able to stop myself from killing them!" Nope, even the flood was an act of loving mercy.. as is His letting man's will seeming to run things, run its course.. all loving mercy.. Infinite Loving Mercy..

[josh]

perhaps there is only one fire
it energizes and enlivens the  perfected

it purges the remaining indwelling sins of those seeking the renewed mind

it causes needless pain in those who cling to their artificial self justifications

[Seth]

To clarify, I believe fire is a term that symbolizes God's judgment in various forms, and that water symbolizes Spirit and both work hand in hand. As ONE form of his various judgments on various people, when God judges the proud by allowing them to remain sinful, he is sending that fire from heaven. The fire emanates from God, but isn't God exactly, because if "wickedness burns like a fire" (Isaiah 9:18) God is surely not wickedness itself. MHO

[josh]

fire i see more as the active element of spirit
and water as soul or the stored energy ..be it properly spiritually expressed past
or corrupted past self expression of spirit...

the heart and blood thus the stored energies of a soul
and the emotions and subconscious receptive mind

and the conscious actions of a soul and the flesh or muscles under control
of choices of the conscious mind ..thus more fire energy

[marie glen]

To clarify, I believe fire is a term that symbolizes God's judgment in various forms, and that water symbolizes Spirit and both work hand in hand. As ONE form of his various judgments on various people, when God judges the proud by allowing them to remain sinful, he is sending that fire from heaven. The fire emanates from God, but isn't God exactly, because if "wickedness burns like a fire" (Isaiah 9:18) God is surely not wickedness itself. MHO

wickedness consumes itself.. is death, the opposite of life..