Purpose of sin(or evil)?

[DanielB]

I hope I am not asking in the wrong place(I do not know where in the forum this question belongs) I am asking out of pure curiosity I am not having trouble with faith or anything. I wonder often and have had(and have) MANY theories and know it is certainly possible that there are multiple if not many purposes. Is there any scripture on this? Or is it just a big mystery to us humans? If sin had no purpose it clearly would not exist. I don't believe God likes sin and I think God decides what exists and what does not exists and if he does not like it there must be some purpose for allowing it to exist. I suspect the answer or answers may be hidden from us but that has not kept me from wondering about it. If you don't know of any scripture about it then what are some of your theories?(if you have any) I know whatever God's reason is it must be a good one! :Chinscratch:

[ed]

I hope I am not asking in the wrong place(I do not know where in the forum this question belongs) I am asking out of pure curiosity I am not having trouble with faith or anything. I wonder often and have had(and have) MANY theories and know it is certainly possible that there are multiple if not many purposes. Is there any scripture on this? Or is it just a big mystery to us humans? If sin had no purpose it clearly would not exist. I don't believe God likes sin and I think God decides what exists and what does not exists and if he does not like it there must be some purpose for allowing it to exist. I suspect the answer or answers may be hidden from us but that has not kept me from wondering about it. If you don't know of any scripture about it then what are some of your theories?(if you have any) I know whatever God's reason is it must be a good one! :Chinscratch:

Howdy Daniel.

I've read a few things on this and there are some good essays on the matter.  I've found that everything put in my path brings me to the place of trusting God.  The end result of struggle, is faith.  The end result of faith, is hope.  The end result of faith and hope, is love. 

All things seem to be in place to bring us to the place of spiritual maturity.  I'm sure there will be some great answers generated by the question and I look forward to reading them.

:Chinscratch:

[Seth]

Hi Daniel,
I have two scriptures that I think sums up the purpose of evil.

Ecclesiastes 1:13
And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore (Hebrew - ra - EVIL) travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised (Hebrew - anah - brought low, humbled) therewith.

"This evil travail God has given to the sons of man, to be humbled therewith."

Jeremiah 2:19
Your own wickedness will correct you, And your apostasies will reprove you;

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  Seth...He teaches..and we learn..through both positive and negative contrast...the scriptures are full of examples


   for us..of both the positive and negative[tokogae]...actually the whole world is as a classroom. when we fail to obey....[do not

eat from the tokogae.....]   hard lessons are learned from a 'negative' expierence.

  eventually we learn that He  will lead and teach us what is best for us....and if we heed Him..many of the negative expierences

   can be avoided[but not all] for even if obedient we are tried with evil[suffer for righteousness sake] and it is 'evil' that

  provides for that means of suffering/longsuffering/compassion/mercy/forgiveness to be developed.

  mercy compassion and longsuffering..as well as forgiveness need the evil contrast to be developed. weakness of the flesh

against such negative things developes humility in His children............He wants ALL the fruit of the spirit...of love......and

and perfection comes from suffering in obedience...willingness to..suffer for doing good[his will] leads to HIS LIKENESS

AND IMAGE,which is perfect.

[ed]

Jeremiah 2:19
Your own wickedness will correct you, And your apostasies will reprove you;

Cool verse.

:thumbsup:

[Seth]

:thumbsup:  Seth...He teaches..and we learn..through both positive and negative contrast...the scriptures are full of examples


   for us..of both the positive and negative[tokogae]...actually the whole world is as a classroom. when we fail to obey....[do not

eat from the tokogae.....]   hard lessons are learned from a 'negative' expierence.

  eventually we learn that He  will lead and teach us what is best for us....and if we heed Him..many of the negative expierences

   can be avoided[but not all] for even if obedient we are tried with evil[suffer for righteousness sake] and it is 'evil' that

  provides for that means of suffering/longsuffering/compassion/mercy/forgiveness to be developed.

  mercy compassion and longsuffering..as well as forgiveness need the evil contrast to be developed. weakness of the flesh

against such negative things developes humility in His children............He wants ALL the fruit of the spirit...of love......and

and perfection comes from suffering in obedience...willingness to..suffer for doing good[his will] leads to HIS LIKENESS

AND IMAGE,which is perfect.

"the world is a classroom"  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[donken]

When a human child becomes an adult, they are no more a child.  But... because they were a child they know about children and about the ways and reasons that the child is immature in comparison to what passes for a good human adult.
Sin is said to be the condition of being short of the glory of God, or.. of not being God.  Anyone or anything that is not GOD or absolutely one with God in nature and wisdom is "in a state of sin" simply by their very existence and by not being God in their existence.

Every human child is short of the glory of God and of a human adult as well. They are that way without choice and without their own doing.   We can therefore say, truthfully but with qualification, that everything the child does, whether good of evil, is a result of what the "parents" did.  They gave birth to the child through their own actions and or desires.  Therefore, we "could" say that the parents are responsible for what the child does for if they had not birthed the child then everything the child does would not have happened.  So it is with man and GOD.  Even though God never does the evil or causes evil at his directive, God accepts and takes all the blame for what mankind has done, upon himself... through the death of His son in the birth\forming of man as a spiritual infant.

Ie... father, forgive them, they do not know what they are doing.   Well, we are presently coming into the condition of knowing what we are doing and we are going to know and understand it truthfully.  We now must give our bodies a LIVING sacrifice to the ways of God and his desires instead of being wixhy washy or completely worldy through the very natural desires of the worldly creature, physical man.  The enmity against God that is in us and that is there quite naturally is now to be brought under the way, truth, and life of Christ in us WITH OUR WILLING PARTICIPATION in knowledge that will become wisdom from God.

The enmity is the law of sin in our members by which we live when we can not and do not live by the way truth and life witnessed by Jesus Christ in the world in a flesh and blood body as a MAN who is the mature Son of GOD we are to become today.  Like Jesus while still in the world because that is the only way the "new" or changed world that is subject to the ways of God can come into being.    The law of sin is how the creature, [man's flesh body} lives when it is not in eternal life and can not live according to the way, truth, and life witnessed by Jesus Christ.

Donken

[Seth]

Jeremiah 2:19
Your own wickedness will correct you, And your apostasies will reprove you;

Cool verse.

:thumbsup:

Yeah, it reminds me of how God's wrath is associated with drinking wine in Revelation and in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 25
15For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it. 16And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.

27Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.

Drinking wine, is associated with pleasure. Being drunk, the same. So what is the connection between pleasure and God's wrath? I think the connection is in Romans 1: Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity.

He gives them over to be drunk on the wine of his wrath. Jesus says that man loves the darkness and will not come into the light. But, then he says that his judgment will be to send them into the "outer darkness." He's sending them to something they love.

And yet, it has eroding power, like with the Prodigal Son. It erodes and causes thirst and a longing for better things.

[josh]

it wont make sense
till one knows that in concealing his glory
and only those who seek him out
..
that sin did not happen with adam as in romans 5
humanity was already deep into sin
what romans 5 says did happen
is that death passed to all humanity
and sin came to abound
not that they already were not sinners...

one cannot understand the mysteries of the bible
when such things as making reincarnation as if it is not part of biblical salvation

[donken]

HI.  The wrath that is of God because of man being formed.  Any thing that is being made is always short of the glory/image it will be when finished and all the while it is not finished it is in the dark about what it will be when finished because that thing that is still being made was never yet that which it will be at completion.  Anyone who looks at what is being made and has not seen a finished product of what is still being made will not know what it is that is being made either.   
The wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God.  James 1:20.  Heavy on the OF MAN part.  It is in existence because OF MAN, being wrathful only because of the still forming unfinished condition of man.  That though, is also the wrath that exists because of what God is making of man, and when man is finished there will not be any wrath seen in man any more.  Ie.. all unrighteousness will be swallowed up by absolute holiness/righteousness.

IF one can see what this means, then the wrath "of GOD" that exists only because of what God is doing that is not finished yet, is then revealed to them from God in heaven.  But the wrath is not in heaven and never ever was or will be.  That is the "serpent become the devil in a believer" that says they are going to go to heaven when they are still carnal believers.  NO accusation meant here about being a carnal believer.

Paul in 1 Cor. 3 tells us that Holy Spirit receiving Christians ARE CARNAL when they have denominations and strife and so on between and among them.  They walk as men and not as Jesus.    As scripture also says, they without us will not be made perfect... true for carnal believers also.  But we today without them will not be made perfect {mature} either.    As to good and evil......
We do need to know and deeply and correctly know about both good and evil from God's perspective.  We endure evil at times and immaturity naturally as children in the world and in this manner we learn experience about evil, but if we think God DOES THE EVIL or plans it against us personally we are deceived and we are a woman spiritually.  The woman is a carnally spirited and minded Christian, which is really the first state of all believers, is it not?  There is no room to be accusative of anyone, in anyone.  Just facts.

donken

[Cardinal]

it wont make sense
till one knows that in concealing his glory
and only those who seek him out
..
that sin did not happen with adam as in romans 5
humanity was already deep into sin
what romans 5 says did happen
is that death passed to all humanity
and sin came to abound
not that they already were not sinners...

one cannot understand the mysteries of the bible
when such things as making reincarnation as if it is not part of biblical salvation

:cloud9: Brother, I found when I experienced Pentecost, the "clear cut, no room for error", way to "test" the spirits, is to cast them out. HE will never leave you nor forsake you, you CAN'T cast Him out, but if it's not like Him it most definitely can be cast out.

Having said that, I will tell you I HAVE cast out spirits of reincarnation out of people back in the day when He had me in full time deliverance ministry, and it was a wicked sight to behold, literally. Books on the topic of reincarnation can easily be found in any bookstore, in the "New Age" section. The sheep don't always know the wolves, but the wolves sure know the wolves.

But please, don't take my word for it, if you're seeking Him with your whole heart, try it for yourself. I recommend you have other Spirit-filled believers with you at the time, however. Anything in the witchcraft realm is pretty determined to "stay put".  :eek:  Blessings....

[donken]

Hi.  Anyone or anything that is not like God is in Spirit or character is going to sin automatically.   The only answer for the end of sin is to be one with God, exactly the same spirit or character.   The divine nature is who God and who Jesus are, and it is the attributes of that nature that are the "angels" or messenger of that nature, that is who God is.  And..  the divine nature does no sin, automatically simply by being there.

The resurrection of Jesus is to take place within mankind, each one being dealt with and taught personally by God over time, by the resurrecting of the knowledge and truth and characteristics {angels} of the divine nature IN EACH PERSON.    No man can come to me {or can be me} except the Father draw them.

So much for free will idea of actually choosing of God by anyone.  THe natural man, the spirit of man, does not know God because the mind of that spirit is the carnal or worldly mind, thinking both good and evil can be done by God and be okay.   Eve belongs to this group.   Also, the carnal mind, the mind of us when we have the natural man's mind even as a Christian,  CAN NOT be obedient to the SPIRIT OF GOD because it is contrary to the mind of Jesus and of God.  These words are in scripture as I am sure most here are familiar with them if not all of us.
Donken

thanks ken

[Seth]

THe natural man, the spirit of man, does not know God because the mind of that spirit is the carnal or worldly mind, thinking both good and evil can be done by God and be okay.   Eve belongs to this group.   

Hi Ken,
I don't disagree with everything you say. I particularly agree with how that the resurrection of Christ is to take place within mankind. I also agree that evil is not "done" by God in that everything God does is right and good, no matter how it looks to man. However, I do believe that God uses evil for good purposes.

I think Ecc 1:13 and Jer 2:19 (which I referenced before) are pretty conclusive about that. You mentioned Eve as an example of someone who is "thinking that good and evil can be done by God and be ok." But, I don't see that in Genesis. Maybe you could elaborate so that I can understand better what you mean.

What I see in Genesis is that Eve disobeyed God. Her sin was eating the fruit which he commanded them not to eat, and that she did this because she was deceived by the serpent to give in to her temptation. I don't see anywhere where Eve's transgression had anything to do with how she believed God handles good and evil. Again, maybe I am misunderstanding your point there.

[donken]

Hello Seth.  Thanks for your words and thoughts.   This is the time, 2014 as it happens to be, that the Lord is going to change our whole perception of how we understand things but we have to believe in no condemnation of anyone.  That does not mean we do not think anyone does no evil, evil is evil.  The mature son of God MUST know about both good and evil to be mature and the ADAM that is not deceived.   But.. if we think we know about evil and still do it and think it is okay at certain times, then God would like us to know that we DO NOT KNOW that evil is NOT GOOD TO DO.

If I willingly do evil and know that it is evil, then I do not know that it is NOT GOOD TO DO EVIL.   If I do it, it has power over me and I am still dead because if evil doing has power over me it is the reason I die and it will also be what blinds me to the truth of God. MY OWN ideas of evil.

Doing evil shows that we do not know that doing evil IS EVIL, period.   Jesus learned about evil by having it done to him and not doing it Himself in return.  Turn the other cheek etc.  God's love is the only power that is able to do that eternally.  The divine nature IS JESUS CHRIST, and is what the resurrection of Christ Jesus in us as THE SON of God is.    So, just knowing that evil exists in the world does not mean we KNOW about evil LIKE GOD DOES.

Belief in Jesus is in fact to return no evil etc. to anyone no matter what they do to us.  Leave THEM to God is what scripture says.  But God will also give us wisdom from him in us today of how to walk in the world in peace and stay away from bad situations if we "hear" and obey.  I have done both at times and learned through that process but I also have to admit {gladly} that I have had a very good happy life overall, even though some very sad things have happened to people in my life, and sometimes to me.

We are to come to the place where we have to seek God's righteousness by and as HIS Dominion in us in the earth, and leave all unbelief and disobedient TO HIM NOW.  He is going to judge THE SON and give THAT SON dominion over all the resources of the world.  In Isaiah 65 we are told that there is still houses built, people living in them, there are infants born, children growing and becoming young men, etc.   The serpents meat is still dust, but the lion and the cow eat grass, and the wolf and lamb lie together, etc.

In the new world and heaven {Spiritual existence in the earth} is the same planet but there will be no more war etc.  The increase of the Kingdom that will become God's, the flesh body of people, will have NO END.   How does this new world come about.

By the way men live and act and desire etc. today, the world is what it is like now.   When we change how we live, many members, then the results of what we do and make and build etc. will change the way the world is through how people live in it.

Joe_3:14  Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
when we are in the valley of DECISION and make the right choice, not the first choice Jonah made, THEN the day of the LORD IS NEAR.  We can know it if we are in decision to do good instead of not good.  It is because we KNOW the truth in that area.  Step into the truth and good way, and another step appears a bit later, step in it, and another step appears a bit later, etc..... following Jesus' way, truth, and life, all the way to becoming WHO HE IS.  That is where HE IS.
WITH THE FATHER with the throne of the father INSIDE HIM.

Do not say look here, look there, for the Kingdom of God is {to be and appear to us} within us.

Luk 17:20  And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21  Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Luk 17:22  And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
Luk 17:23  And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
Luk 17:24  For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Luk 17:25  But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luk 17:26  And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27  They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

In Noah's day the believing and the obedient remained and all "unbelief" was no more in the earth.    Today the flood that is coming is that flood of the holy spirit as in ... the last days *I* shall pour out of MY Spirit upon ALL FLESH.   It is a process that has already begun.  But we all have to come to understand that NO ONE BELIEVES the truth to come to the Lord Jesus EXCEPT THE FATHER DRAW HIM.

Anyone who thinks their "faith" about Jesus is their decision and choice is not in the truth in that area.  The spirit of man can not and does not know the things of the spirit of God.  But in man is both good and evil and it is the goodness that is OF GOD that recognizes and begins to believe SOME truth.

The LORD IS ALREADY present.   Pentecostalism is the "elijah" that comes first and it must now decrease in all things that are not true that they have believed.  As John said, I knew him not, I was not THAT light, and I could not loose his shoe latchet.  Ie... remove the way WE walk in the world by the Shoes or things we use to walk with as carnal Christians.   Every child, which is where we all stare even as Christians is a carnal Christian first.  Still under the elements of the world in their understanding and belief.   IF any of us are resentful of these particular words, then we are still very "human" and not yet Spiritual of GOd enought.

The law of sin is "our god" or the ways of the world in us, just like all other animals, while we are immature and unable to willingly obey God as He desires.  Today we know there is no demons etc. making us sick, or depressed, or mentally hurt, etc.  They are problems caused by the body not working properly and we are going to heal all these imperfections with the knowledge we will have as mankind UNDER CHRIST in us.  We can not have much more power and knowledge of the universe {powers of nature} until they are going to be used properly and peaceable under the dominion of Jesus Christ the man of Peace.

God bless, donken

[Seth]

I don't have much of a problem with the above things you are saying, insofar as that evil is not good to do. In fact, I believe that James outright states that those who have faith yet do works of evil (rejecting a brother who needs warmth and shelter) are not justified/righteous before God. I believe that the "righteousness by faith" means that Christ's character comes by the gift of the Spirit received by faith, not by doings of the Law. It is the mind which must be cleansed for the character of Christ to be realized in the life of any man, and for that the Spirit was (is) given to mankind through faith.

The topic of the OP is "the purpose of evil." As in, does all this sin and evil have a purpose, as in a reason for being, rather than simply a random occurrence in God's creation. I believe it does have a purpose and that God has a hand in creating evil, just as he said in Isaiah 14.

You said: THe natural man, the spirit of man, does not know God because the mind of that spirit is the carnal or worldly mind, thinking both good and evil can be done by God and be okay.

I would agree that the carnal mind believes that good and evil can be done by MAN and be okay, but with the main purpose of the OP and your quoted statement, it seems that you are saying that the natural man believes that God creates both good and evil, and such a doctrine would not be believed by the spiritual man. That is what I am trying to clarify.

[DanielB]

Thanks for your answers everybody. It is good to hear something other than "Good can't exist without evil." or "Because free will."  :winkgrin:

[Seth]

"Good can't exist without evil."

That's a funny one. Pop-philosophy. It's as if God is totally incapable of eradicating evil while preserving the good.  :doh:

[donken]

Hi.  The law consists of both good and evil.  The ten, and then the rest.  The rest are done when we are short of the glory of God automatically by birth.  We can not keep the SPIRIT of the ten commandments all the time, but we do some of the Spirit of God at some times, and some times the spirit or nature of sin.  I mean, animal sacrifices and blooding and so on were for the priests who kept the "writing" of the law and kept it for the good of Israel.  They were HEALTH laws, and also the gifts "to God" of the sacrifices were really for the priests who had no land and no cattle etc.

Also, they had isolation of people with illnesses, and so on.  Eat nothing that died of itself.  Health laws.  They knew nothing about sanitation and had no refrigeration, did not know about STD's,  Ie.. if they did not keep those healthy ordinances the PLAGUE CAME.  Disease, etc.  The laws were FOR THEM and if they kept they it would be good for them and they would prosper and be healthy, but if they did not do them, the plague would come.  They thought, sincerely that God made the plague come upon them, etc.  But it is really the natural ways of the world to and upon all.  Do certain things improperly or not at all and get sick or some such thing.   That is also why a woman that is in her menses is "put aside" until it is over.  Blood is a very disease causing and supporting medium.  Hence, pour the blood out upon the dust and bury it, so on.  Kill things outside the gate, etc.

If a person have a disease that was evident upon their flesh, put them in quarantine, etc.

Do them or "get the plague etc."

The normal workings of the world are for the continuation of the worldly flora and fauna, existing of it's own works, until it can be brought under the rule of Christ Jesus in the world.   
So, if a cup of sorrow or death comes upon us without cause, we drink it like Jesus did, showing that his dominion is still dead as far as being able to be seen in the world.  Until he come as Lord in man.  We show the lack of his dominion in our own bodies and the world as Christians, Until HE APPEARS IN OUR BODY.
Donken

[Seth]

Hi Ken,
Not sure how you answered my question with your response, but I guess I will evolve with the direction of the conversation.

Hi.  The law consists of both good and evil.  The ten, and then the rest.  The rest are done when we are short of the glory of God automatically by birth.

How does the law contain evil? Paul said that the Law was "holy, just and good."

Romans 7
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (coveting). 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The Law is good. Sin is bad. Sin does the deceiving and the evil, not the Law, by working within us covetous desires which are contrary to the law. Enter, the Spirit:

2 Corinthians 3
7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.


As "good, holy and just" as the Law is, it is a "ministration of death" because it sin increases within us when we try to follow it. However, the Spirit cleanses our minds and therefore causes us to walk in the righteousness of God, which is why it's called the "ministration of righteousness" when the Law is called the "ministry of condemnation."

I mean, animal sacrifices and blooding and so on were for the priests who kept the "writing" of the law and kept it for the good of Israel.  They were HEALTH laws, and also the gifts "to God" of the sacrifices were really for the priests who had no land and no cattle etc.

Also, they had isolation of people with illnesses, and so on.  Eat nothing that died of itself.  Health laws.

I've heard this before, but I am prone to seeing it differently. I do not believe they were created for health, but for a testimony of Christ. The dietary laws speak of separation between Gentiles and Jews, one that Christ would do away with. We see that evident in the account of Peter who saw a vision of God cleansing all the foods and telling him that what he called clean, he should not call unclean.

Did Jesus die to make pigs healthy and safe to eat? No, he died to make of Gentile and Jew, one man. Pigs are still as unhealthy as ever to eat. God declared all "foods" clean when Christ died to do away with the wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles, declaring them clean to associate with eachother and be brothers in the faith.

This occurred at the time when Peter questioned whether it was lawful for him to associate with Gentiles. I really don't see any reason for the understanding that the dietary laws were for health reasons, other than speculation.

[donken]

Hello Seth.  Not sure what you were asking I guess.  The only answer is that all people become one with God in nature and they will always do everything that is in their nature and there will be nothing in that nature that is "death causing" , nothing "worldly" or carnal we can say.   Carnal is simple the child, the first condition of every new living creature.  The enmity that Jesus destroys or will destroy is the lusts of the child\flesh that lust against the Spirit.  Jesus, as we will have to do to be completed\perfected\finished, kept the lusts of his flesh {in all points like as we are so was he} under and obedient to the desires of the Spirit of GOD that does no evil to anyone at any time, ever.   In doing so, he saved his body by making it the righteousness of God through His unity with GOD in heart and mind.   That is the WAY.  In doing THE WAY {if we do not pick up our own cross we can not be his student because we will not be taking his courses} we will find out the TRUTH and will have in us, THE LIFE.   To understand all things properly, we must know about good and about evil and that they are different and never occur together as the same.  We are to learn from our own growing pains by being subject to and enduring both in the world that it is not good to DO EVIL but we also know what evil is and what it is like etc. by our experiences of it in the world from the world.  Evil ministers evil, Good, and thus God, does not.

God bless.  Ken

[Seth]

Hello Seth.  Not sure what you were asking I guess. 

Ken, have you been reading my posts?

[donken]

Hello Seth.  Usually I read the bottom reply only.  Sometimes others.  I will have a look at the web site you gave and read a bit there.   The heritage lineage of Israel was the lineage Jesus was going to come through.  The commandments to Israel about eating and so on, and the sexual cleanliness practices and so on, are the "works" Israel had to do to remain plague free, or reasonably plague\disease free and keep themselves in existence until the time of Christ without being wiped out entirely by disease and other worldly things.  They had to live of their OWN WORKS.

Yes, you know today that port can be unhealthy and must be cooked well and so on. But historic Israel did not.  They did not have refrigeration, they did not have methods of keeping food for days etc in their hot environment and so on. Thus, eat something now and perhaps until the morning but not after that in the heat of day, and so on.   

Lev_7:34  For the wave breast and the heave shoulder have I taken of the children of Israel from off the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and have given them unto Aaron the priest and unto his sons by a statute for ever from among the children of Israel.
Look at that word "forever" and think what the Jewish people might think about that if they read it.  Man is the writer of the book, even the meanings are of man when literal. 

Heb_10:6  In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Isa_10:6  I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.   {people of my wrath, which wrath is the lusts of the flesh, the wrath of man exists because God is creating man into Christ Jesus and the unfinished man is the wrath that exists because of what GOD is making}  The finished man is Jesus Christ, no wrath witnessed.

Jer 7:20  Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.
Jer 7:21  Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
Jer 7:22  For I spake not unto your fathers, NOR COMMANDED THEM the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning BURNT OFFERINGS OR SACRIFICES.
Jer 7:23  But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jer 7:24  But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
The followed a cloud and could not see inside the cloud.  In their case, it was the spirit of man. 

I think we can realize today that these things, even quarantine measures,are for keeping them reasonably free from worldly diseases that the people of the old testament knew nothing about and attributed them all to God doing them to them on purpose.   If they did them, it would be well for them, but if they did not the plagues {disease} would come.  They were being motivated to keep them by FEAR OF NOT KEEPING THEM.  It does not work for long.  Unless of course, like us today, we know it is good FOR OUR OWN SELVES to be clean etc.

Will check the web site.  Thanks,
Donken
Donken.

[Seth]

I think we can realize today that these things, even quarantine measures,are for keeping them reasonably free from worldly diseases that the people of the old testament knew nothing about and attributed them all to God doing them to them on purpose.   If they did them, it would be well for them, but if they did not the plagues {disease} would come.  They were being motivated to keep them by FEAR OF NOT KEEPING THEM.  It does not work for long.  Unless of course, like us today, we know it is good FOR OUR OWN SELVES to be clean etc.

Hi Ken,
Again, this is all sort of off topic, but I don't believe the dietary laws were for health reasons. The plague of death came upon Adam for disobedience alone, not because the fruit was unhealthy to eat. I believe the Bible demonstrates that the dietary laws were for a testimony of Christ, in how that by dying on the cross, he removed the barrier between Jew and Gentile, represented by the barrier between eating pork and eating beef.

If it really were about health reasons, God declared all meats clean in Acts 10, which would mean that there are no diseases in pork anymore today. But we know that is not true. There's even diseases possible in eating beef today.

I do believe that all meat is allowable to eat, but I believe also that the real reason God created the dietary laws was to symbolize the dividing wall between Jew and Gentile that Christ removed through his death.

[Seth]

Hello Seth.  Usually I read the bottom reply only.  Sometimes others.

May I ask, why don't you read all replies? Fellowship is a matter of conversation, isn't it? Are you here to fellowship or sermonize?

[donken]

Hello Seth.   There is no fellowship without unity and I do mean unity.  That does not mean I am not friendly or dislike anyone.  Just not the same interests and it can not be faked, but coffee together etc. is okay for a while etc.   Do you go to a church, and not go to some others where they do not share what you believe?
I do, I often go many places, just to see what is going on there and what changes have taken place and I get along well, keeping quiet when what I believe is not desired.    Fellowship with Christ is enough, not meaning that anyone is refused my company if they want it.  But I just do not have many worldly interests, and what I am not interested in I do not do often.  But I can spend time with people who do or want to do many things I do not find "fun" or interesting other than just going along peaceably.   If a person does not hate the world they can not be his disciple.  Of course, it is just those many things that are really bad or manipulative or greedy or star struck or dressing in a faddish way or so on that I do not follow much in my own life when alone.  But I do not refuse anyone.
If I am not interested, I am not interested and that's it.  I am sure there are some things that you are not interested in, and you do not bother to "fake" it.  But
neither do I expect anyone to do anything I do if they do not want to.  Christ IS enough.
God bless, ken