Noah's ark

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Micah, so be it according to your faith....Blessings....

[eaglesway]

I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high  enough, along with the severity of the storms  and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind  :2c:

[micah7:9]

I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high  enough, along with the severity of the storms  and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind  :2c:

".... along with the severity of the storms  and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth.

" severity of the storms" recorded?  "...and whatever tectonic events took (p)lace..." recorded?
Are you assuming or is is just me? And why could not all of this happened in just the area of where Noah lived? Could there have be a lesson, a learning from this story rather than the "whole entire world" being flooded? I believe the Bible, it has Great Spiritual learning and wisdom but science sees the natural...craters and volcanos, even the Grand Canyon prove no "world wide" flood. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[Tapioca]

I don't think it gets much clearer than this:

17The flood continued forty days on the earth. The waters increased and bore up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the face of the waters.

19And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that

all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered.

20The waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. 21And all flesh died that moved on the earth,

birds, livestock, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth,

and all mankind.

22Everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life died.

23He blotted out every living thing that was on the face of the ground, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens. They were blotted out from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those who were with him in the ark

[micah7:9]

Clearer?

[eaglesway]

I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high  enough, along with the severity of the storms  and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind  :2c:

".... along with the severity of the storms  and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth.

" severity of the storms" recorded?  "...and whatever tectonic events took (p)lace..." recorded?
Are you assuming or is is just me? And why could not all of this happened in just the area of where Noah lived? Could there have be a lesson, a learning from this story rather than the "whole entire world" being flooded? I believe the Bible, it has Great Spiritual learning and wisdom but science sees the natural...craters and volcanos, even the Grand Canyon prove no "world wide" flood. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

They were recorded in the scriptures. "Holy men moved of the Spirit" , "oracles", "God-breathed". If you see them as allegories, myths, exagerations or whatever, that is your way. I believe the scriptures are describing a world-wide cataclysm- a tree shaken by the roots and plucked up by the hand of God. Peter saw it that way, and read it that way.

"Who were once disobedient while the patience of God waited in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is 8 persons were brought safely through the water." 1 Pet 3

"and did not spare the ancient world but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly". 2 Pet 2:5

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Micah, ask the Lord for an increase to come in your faith. I'm here to agree with you for it!  :iagree:  There is power in agreement. Agree with me for an increase in mine, too, while you're at it. You can never have too much! Blessings.... :girlheart:

[micah7:9]

Why would you do that :sigh:

Also why is MY faith or lack of it in question? I have faith from what I have read in the Bible that there was a flood, that He had a purpose for that flood, just not a global flood. :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

I really never considered whether the water covered the hghest nountain. My thought was that it was high  enough, along with the severity of the storms  and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth. and most likely all the animal life too, else why stock the ark with 2 of every kind  :2c:

".... along with the severity of the storms  and whatever tectonic events took lace(the deep opened up, etc) to kill every other human being on earth.

" severity of the storms" recorded?  "...and whatever tectonic events took (p)lace..." recorded?
Are you assuming or is is just me? And why could not all of this happened in just the area of where Noah lived? Could there have be a lesson, a learning from this story rather than the "whole entire world" being flooded? I believe the Bible, it has Great Spiritual learning and wisdom but science sees the natural...craters and volcanos, even the Grand Canyon prove no "world wide" flood. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

They were recorded in the scriptures. "Holy men moved of the Spirit" , "oracles", "God-breathed". If you see them as allegories, myths, exagerations or whatever, that is your way. I believe the scriptures are describing a world-wide cataclysm- a tree shaken by the roots and plucked up by the hand of God. Peter saw it that way, and read it that way.

"Who were once disobedient while the patience of God waited in the days of Noah during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is 8 persons were brought safely through the water." 1 Pet 3

"and did not spare the ancient world but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly". 2 Pet 2:5

If that is as far as you can understand, then so be it. I believe the WORD as you, I just will not excercise my faith with that thinking anylonger.  :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

As no man knows the thoughts of a man but the spirit of the man which is in him. Even so no one knows the thoughts of God but the Spirit of God.

God knows how far we do, or do not understand, and He knows the the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. It is funny, some people believe their faith determines what reality is, but it doesnt. What is real, is what it is, and it will be so until we see it and then it becomes an open door or a fountain. No one, by believing can re-imagine the Rock, He Is What He IS. We are just digging around the edges of His vast wisdom and How much flood the flood was, imo, is not really all that deep. ;o)

[micah7:9]

Do you believe Gow would go back on His Word?
Jer 5:22 Fear ye not Me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at My presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual (which can mean, any more or at any time) decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

Oh, with one exception, with Noah's flood they passed anywhere they wanted to go. They defied all of God's decrees and declaration and commandments?

I say No.

[eaglesway]

Well besides the fact that that was written a couple thousand years after the flood, why would a person believe that and not believe Genesis???

Whatever basis you pick and choose by, to decide what part of the word to believe and what part to categorize as myth or allegory, just doesnt work for me, but why wring one another's nose about it? We see it differently, so again we must agree to disagree, lol.

[micah7:9]

Should you, who embraces the "agree to disagree" formula would do some checking you would see that the prophet was speaking of Genesis, not "a couple of thousand years after the flood."
Again David speaks of Genesis...Psa 104:3  Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters; Who maketh the clouds his chariot; Who walketh upon the wings of the wind;
Psa 104:4  Who maketh winds his messengers; Flames of fire his ministers;
Psa 104:5  Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved for ever.
Psa 104:6  Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a vesture; The waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7  At thy rebuke they fled; At the voice of thy thunder they hasted away
Psa 104:8  (The mountains rose, the valleys sank down) Unto the place which thou hadst founded for them.
Psa 104:9  Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psa 104:10  He sendeth forth springs into the valleys; They run among the mountains;

I say back to you your own words, " Whatever basis you pick and choose.." I agree with the Word and agree with the Word and I am afraid it maybe your nose wringing within theology of its rhetoric. I do not disagree, I say you are in error.

Gen 1:6  And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'
Gen 1:7  And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which are under the expanse, and the waters which are above the expanse: and it is so.
A reference. :Peace2:

In my understanding there was a flood, a flood for His purpose, it was not and did not need to be a global flood. imo.

[Seth]

Do you believe Gow would go back on His Word?
Jer 5:22 Fear ye not Me? saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at My presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual (which can mean, any more or at any time) decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

Oh, with one exception, with Noah's flood they passed anywhere they wanted to go. They defied all of God's decrees and declaration and commandments?

I say No.

I am undecided about a local flood/global flood. I haven't looked much into it, but I did notice that the word "perpetual" in that Jeremiah scripture is from the word "olam." So it was an OLAM decree, meaning it was not necessarily a degree that could not at some point be set aside by God's choice.

It says that "18The waters prevailed and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the face of the waters. 19And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered."

So if the waters did all that, then at least locally they broke the bounds which were supposed to be set "perpetually." Whether local or global, that "olam decree" would have to be set aside for the local division of waters and land. If locally, than why not globally?

[micah7:9]

" If locally, than why not globally?"
Why the "need" for a global flood?

[Seth]

You answer me first, then I will answer you.

[micah7:9]

 What did a global flood or even a local flood accomplish?
My reasoning and wonder, Gen 6:6  And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7  And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
And yet when the flood subsided and Noah with his sons were instructed to replenish, all that the flood was to have disposed of, emerged just as before and men began to be just as they were.

[Seth]

What did a global flood or even a local flood accomplish?
My reasoning and wonder, Gen 6:6  And it repented Jehovah that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7  And Jehovah said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the ground; both man, and beast, and creeping things, and birds of the heavens; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
And yet when the flood subsided and Noah with his sons were instructed to replenish, all that the flood was to have disposed of, emerged just as before and men began to be just as they were.

It accomplished a sign of what would be baptism of the spirit (the true water). Eventually the whole earth will be covered with that water, doing away with sin forever...not just locally. Then again, a local flood could accomplish the same purpose. But there isn't necessarily a great obsessive need to believe in a global flood. People simply believe it they open the Bible read it and believe in a global flood. That's hardly a "need."

[eaglesway]

Should you, who embraces the "agree to disagree" formula would do some checking you would see that the prophet was speaking of Genesis, not "a couple of thousand years after the flood."
Again David speaks of Genesis...Psa 104:3  Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters; Who maketh the clouds his chariot; Who walketh upon the wings of the wind;
Psa 104:4  Who maketh winds his messengers; Flames of fire his ministers;
Psa 104:5  Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should not be moved for ever.
Psa 104:6  Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a vesture; The waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7  At thy rebuke they fled; At the voice of thy thunder they hasted away
Psa 104:8  (The mountains rose, the valleys sank down) Unto the place which thou hadst founded for them.
Psa 104:9  Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
Psa 104:10  He sendeth forth springs into the valleys; They run among the mountains;

I say back to you your own words, " Whatever basis you pick and choose.." I agree with the Word and agree with the Word and I am afraid it maybe your nose wringing within theology of its rhetoric. I do not disagree, I say you are in error.

Gen 1:6  And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'
Gen 1:7  And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which are under the expanse, and the waters which are above the expanse: and it is so.
A reference. :Peace2:

In my understanding there was a flood, a flood for His purpose, it was not and did not need to be a global flood. imo.

Your understanding is acceptable for you. It is not acceptable for me, but like I said......not that big a deal, but Peter said "in which 8 souls were saved. To me that makes it worldwide.

Then the flood came upon the earth and it lifted the ark so that it rose above the earth. The water increased and rose greatly upon the earth, and the ark floated on the water. The water increased more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered. The water prevailed 15 cubits higher and the mountains were covered. All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and every swarming thing that swarms on the earth and all mankind. Gen 7

Simple. Clear. Easy to read. ;o)

If Genesis 7 doesnt hold water, Psalm 104 doesnt either.

[micah7:9]

The fact that you need a global flood for your belief leaves me without any truth to supply. I will concede only to that belief, the one you need. You have no real idea or thought where this was, "The water increased more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered." It could have been an area, but you will not see that.
And will you or can you be very specific about, " All flesh that moved on the earth perished.." Just where and how much of "the earth" is/was involved? for you it must be global....why?
No you need a global flood for your religion, without it, your entire belief fails, that is very sad.
What did a global flood accomplish that a local flood could not? What exactly was destroyed, I mean just looking at the world and events today?
I dare not go into the thought of Noah stepping on the smallest of the smallest perhaps  one, of a pair male and female of chiggers,(have you ever seen a chigger?) that was making a home in the gopher wood pitched within and without.
No, you need that global flood or your belief is weakened.
I believe there was a flood, but since the Lord said Psa 104:9  Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
I accept and believe that there was a flood, but local to the area, even the settling of the ark was in a mountain in the very area where it began. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Your arrogance is outrageous.

[Tapioca]

Your arrogance is outrageous.

Yeah, this forum sure isn't what I thought it was going to be. It's getting a little hard to want to bother with it. Maybe a newbie shouldn't have joined....

[Jock]

Hey you guys


2Ti 2:24

The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged.

Shalom

Jock.  :punish:

[eaglesway]

The fact that you need a global flood for your belief leaves me without any truth to supply. I will concede only to that belief, the one you need. You have no real idea or thought where this was, "The water increased more and more upon the earth, so that all the high mountains everywhere under the heavens were covered." It could have been an area, but you will not see that.
And will you or can you be very specific about, " All flesh that moved on the earth perished.." Just where and how much of "the earth" is/was involved? for you it must be global....why?
No you need a global flood for your religion, without it, your entire belief fails, that is very sad.
What did a global flood accomplish that a local flood could not? What exactly was destroyed, I mean just looking at the world and events today?
I dare not go into the thought of Noah stepping on the smallest of the smallest perhaps  one, of a pair male and female of chiggers,(have you ever seen a chigger?) that was making a home in the gopher wood pitched within and without.
No, you need that global flood or your belief is weakened.
I believe there was a flood, but since the Lord said Psa 104:9  Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That they turn not again to cover the earth.
I accept and believe that there was a flood, but local to the area, even the settling of the ark was in a mountain in the very area where it began. :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

Actually, I don't need a global flood. It is hard for me to understand how such a flood, and the incredible devastation it represents, fulfilled the plan of God for that age., and like I said(if you really read it)- its not a big deal to me, not the deepest stuff. But I believe the scriptures are true, and as it is written in Genesis 7, I cannot read it any other way. It neither fortifies or weakens my faith, because my faith is in the God from whom the scriptures proceed by the spirit, and His Son, the Living Word, who revealed His love to me before I ever considered whether there was a flood, having grown up in a household where there was no faith of any kind.

Growing up in the Carolina's, I am very familiar with chiggers, aggravating lil buggers, tiny lil things, hard to see, bite like demons and itch like a fire- and hard to get rid of, but you don't want to let them hang around and lay eggs under your skin- then it gets really bad.

[Graph1159]

I am very bad at engineering so I'll have to ask you guys for input on this:

Would an ark with the dimensions described in Genesis 6 be big enough to hold two of every animal that existed in those days?