No condemnation?

[WhiteWings]

(John 8:4) tempting, they say to him, Teacher, we found this woman committing adultery, in the act.
(John 8:5) Now in the law, Moses commanded us such women are to be stoned. What therefore do thou say about her?
(John 8:6) But they said this, trying him, so that they might have an accusation against him. But Jesus having stooped down, wrote on the ground with his finger, not pretending.
(John 8:7) And when they continued asking him, after standing erect, he said to them, Let the innocent man of you first cast the stone at her.
(John 8:8) And again having stooped down, he wrote on the ground.
(John 8:9) And they, having heard and being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, having begun from the elder until the last. And Jesus was left behind alone, and the woman being in the midst.
(John 8:10) And Jesus, after standing erect, and having seen no man but the woman, he said to her, Woman, where are those accusers of thee? Did no man condemn thee?
(John 8:11) And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I condemn thee. Go, and henceforth sin no more.

What does the above say. There is no condemnation at all?

What did Jesus write on the ground? Does it refer to something in to OT?


κατακρίνω
katakrinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to give judgment against, to judge worthy of punishment
1a) to condemn
1b) by one's good example to render another's wickedness themore evident and censurable
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2596 and G2919
Citing in TDNT: 3:951, 469

[WhiteWings]

(http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/cms/blog/2467849/john-8/jesus-in-sand.jpg)
Jesus was here.



A reference to this verse?

(Jer 17:13) O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake thee shall be put to shame. Those who depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken LORD, the fountain of living waters.

"Oh YHVH, the Immerser (BAPTIZER) of Israel, all those who leave your way shall be put to shame (publicly embarrassed), those who turn aside from my ways will have their names written in the dust and blotted out, for they have departed from YHVH, the fountain of Mayim Hayim (the waters of life)."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whenever someone was caught in adultery, both the man and the woman would be brought to the Nicanor temple gates and accused. If witnesses could be gathered to confirm that adultery had indeed been committed, then there was a certain ceremony that would be done in order to bring judgment. However, in this instance they only brought the woman. This was a violation of the Oral Law of God.

Secondly, the priest was required to then stoop down and write the law that had been broken, along with the names of the accused, in the dust of the floor of the Temple (which Jesus did) [actually, the priest could write the law and the names anywhere, as long as the marks were not permanent -- and the dust of the floor of the Temple was the most commonplace]. By doing this, Jesus showed these accusers that THEY were not keeping the law, but He would anyway. (As an aside -- two eyewitnesses must be present, and there is no mention of the witnesses' presence in this scene. The Scribes and Pharisees just say she was caught in the act. By whom?)

The Scribes and Pharisees ignored the law, brought the woman only, and then continued with accusations. So Jesus stood up (after plainly demonstrating they were violating the law themselves) and said, "He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" John 8:7). THEY did not want to cast the stone, they wanted Jesus to condemn her, so they continued accusing.

More: http://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/julie-barrier/what-did-jesus-really-write-in-the-sand.html

[WhiteWings]

(John 8:8) And again having stooped down, he wrote on the ground.

Why did He stoop down twice?

(Gen 41:32 [CLV])
And on account of the repetition of the dream to Pharaoh twice, it is that the matter is established with the Elohim. And the Elohim will hasten His doing of it.

Is it simply meaning Jesus was very sure about it?
Why didn't the Pharisees run away the first time Jesus wrote something in the sand?

[Molly]

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
--John 3

[dajomaco]

Brought low, you will speak from the ground;
your speech will mumble out of the dust. Your voice will come ghostlike from the earth;
out of the dust your speech will whisper.

He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said,
"Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: "The person who does these things will live by them."

[Molly]

Two covenants:  the first is written by the finger of God on tablets of stone, the second is written on the minds and hearts of men.


"The days are coming," declares the Lord,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,"
declares the Lord.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time," declares the Lord.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the Lord.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
--Jer 31


"Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her."   John 8:7

There is only one person in the crowd to whom that applies--Jesus himself.  And, he will not throw the first stone.  Instead, he forgives her sins.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.--John 8

[lomarah]

Isn't He wonderful?  :cloud9:

[WhiteWings]

Yes, I am.  :boogie:

[lomarah]

Eistigi liom! That was a capital H.

[WhiteWings]

The I am guy is capital too  :laughing7:

[lomarah]

 :btongue:

[WhiteWings]

Found something that seems to fit in this thread so I resurrect it  :winkgrin:

The ancient Jews were very focussed on following the laws. One of the laws was about not working on a Sabbath.
Writing was something that lasted and therefore was considered work. However, there was an exception; writing in the sand because the wind would quickly blow away the writing.
Obviously it can be debated how many days John 7 and John 8 last but in John 7:2 we read Jesus went to celebrate the feast of Tabernacles. That feast itself contained special Sabbath days and obviously also a regular Sabbath day. So Jesus' writing in the sand could be because it was  a Sabbath. Maybe even an extra high Sabbath being part of Tabernacles or the even more holy 8th day Sabbath.
To be honest if that's the case I don't understand why they even brought the woman. Wasn't dragging her around a court's work? Execution on Sabbath was forbidden.

Of course it still doesn't answer what He wrote.

[anti_nietzsche]

I think this means that only those who are sinless are qualified to execute anyone, but then those who are sinless love their neighbor so much that they don't want to execute anyone.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think He wrote the laws He knew each one had broken, and the law did it's perfect work of condemning the flesh. So much so they knew that not one of them could cast a stone. Note He told her to go and sin no more. Forgiveness of sins comes with an expectation that we learn from our mistakes and don't do it again. So much for "greasy grace".  :laughing7:  Blessings....

[bushy]

I think 'greasy grace' means we can't depend on just what the Father did for us, we have to show that we deserve it at least a little by our works cuz faith without works is dead, also known as 'easy believism'. 

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yep, gotta walk the talk.... :iagree:

[eaglesway]

Grace greases the wheels so that they don't burn up from the "heat" of legalists and lawyers and Pharisees.

So I see grace as greasy in a good way.

"The grace of God that brings deliverance has appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldy lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world." Titus 2


Grace leads to righteousness even as the kindness of God leads us to repentence.

IMO, It is only the unbelief that grace is not enough that causes people of little faith to judge one another and spy out one another's liberty, instead of praying for a brother or sister found in a fault or restoring them in a spirit of meekness.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Faith (outer court/water baptism) without works (inner court/Holy Ghost does the works baptism) is dead.

And works without faith is also dead.

Example: Death of above is sort of like if I preach healing is real and for us today (faith) but have no outward manifestation of His power that illustrates that faith is active and ALIVE (works).

Hearing to us is just like an auditory experience. But to hear to God, means to hear (faith) and to DO, obey/works). They always had to do something to activate their faith, ie. pick up your bed and walk, stretch out your hand, ect.

Which is why faith is the evidence of things not seen. Or in other words, the evidence (that which is manifested) is what you had the faith to bring from the invisible to the visible.

I really love this subject because He has made it so alive in me. :banana:  Blessings...

[eaglesway]

:cloud9: Faith (outer court/water baptism) without works (inner court/Holy Ghost does the works baptism) is dead.

And works without faith is also dead.

Example: Death of above is sort of like if I preach healing is real and for us today (faith) but have no outward manifestation of His power that illustrates that faith is active and ALIVE (works).

Hearing to us is just like an auditory experience. But to hear to God, means to hear (faith) and to DO, obey/works). They always had to do something to activate their faith, ie. pick up your bed and walk, stretch out your hand, ect.

Which is why faith is the evidence of things not seen. Or in other words, the evidence (that which is manifested) is what you had the faith to bring from the invisible to the visible.

I really love this subject because He has made it so alive in me. :banana:  Blessings...

Beautiful post :o)

"And the Lord worked with them, confirming the word with signs and wonders following."

The Lord worked with their proclaiming the arrival of the kingdom of God and the reconciliation of all in Messiah because, as Samuel said, "His Spirit speaks through me and His word in on my tongue"

It was much more than just because they had "figured it out".

Even as baptism(bronze laver, entrance to middle court) was the prerequisite to enter where the Lampstand(revelation/teaching/prophecy) and the table of presence/shewbread(union and communion, fellowship in one accord)- we have to do more than "understand the layout" because now it is in the spirit. We can only enter where we have obeyed and yielded to the grace of God.

Romans 12:1-4
I beseech you brothers by the mercies of God that you yield your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable, which is your reasonable service (bronze laver/baptism)

And be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you might prove what it that good and acceptable and perfect will of God (lampstand/middle court)

By the grace of God I say unto everyman among you that no man think of himself more highly than he ought, but to consider his own stature soberly, because God has distributed to every one a measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body and the members share a diversity of offices so that we, being many are one body in Christ, and members one of another(Table of presence/ union and communion).

These things combine to lead us to the golden altar of incense where another deeper level of sacrifice and intercession is required, in order to get into the priesthood of Christ as intercessors, caught up to His throne- sharing in the ministry of reconciliation "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself and has entrusted to us the word of reconciliation"

That word of reconciliation is the word for which "The Lord worked with them confirming the word"- "As God has reconciled you, I urge you, be reconciled to one another". We can teach on the benefits of oneness/fellowship/untiy etc. in the body, but no water comes forth until we speak to the rock(our own hard hearts) and the n the water comes forth where the brokenness i s-"He tthat believes in me out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water"...."Come all you who are thirsty, drink freely of the water of life".


These spiritual realities when real, give birth to the pouring of the spirit out of the holy of holies, prostrating all the priests beneath the awesome presence and power of God, which, imo, is essentially what was happening on the day of Pentecost, where they were all in one mind and one accord when the Spirit was poured out upon them and is still available today for any who will "Drink freely".

[micah7:9]

Water baptism is obsolete, harsh word perhaps, but water baptism was a John the Baptism offering.
Mat 3:11  I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:
Luk 3:16  John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:
Rom 6:3  Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4  We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: @ Eaglesway....Amen and amen...... :thumbsup: :banana:

[eaglesway]

Water baptism is obsolete, harsh word perhaps, but water baptism was a John the Baptism offering.
Mat 3:11  I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:
Luk 3:16  John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but there cometh he that is mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:
Rom 6:3  Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4  We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

I don't know about that....... Peter and Paul offered it as well with the gospel they proclaimed :o )They are the foundation stones, and gave us the "rosetta stone" of our gospel.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Gotta agree here. Jesus said when John balked at baptizing Him,  that it was necessary to fulfill ALL righteousness. Blessings....