6 or 7 creation "days"?

[WhiteWings]

[quote author=gregoryfl link=topic=12424.msg169828#msg169828
When you see the calendar put together, and separate it in your mind from the one you are used to using, you will see that every week has a shabbat at the end of it. The reason it appears that there are weeks without one is because people are erroneously counting new moon day as a day of the week. Here is a 30 day month that I will try to outline below to get a visual of this:

                              01 New Moon day (not a weekday, nor a shabbat)
02 03 04 05 06 07 08 Six working days ending in shabbat (first week)
09 10 11 12 13 14 15 Six working days ending in shabbat (second week)
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Six working days ending in shabbat (third week)
23 24 25 26 27 28 29 Six working days ending in shabbat (fourth week)
                              30 New moon day (not a weekday, nor a shabbat)
[/quote]

The most well know Hebrew date is Nisan 14th. The day Jesus was crucified. Endless debates on the exact day. Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. For starters, only the Sabbath day had a name, all other days just a number. Day 1...6
So while on our calendar Nisan 14 is on a different weekday every year for the ancient Jews it was always on the day they called "Day-6" the day before Sabbath day.

Correct Ronen?


Article about lunar Sabbath. http://www.hope-of-israel.org/lunarsab.html

[WhiteWings]

Pentecost count of 7 perfect Sabbaths = 49 days. The next day (50th) is Pentecost.

When I insert New Moon days I'm unable to find a matching Pentecost count.

What's your solution to this problem Ronen?

[gregoryfl]

The most well know Hebrew date is Nisan 14th. The day Jesus was crucified. Endless debates on the exact day. Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. For starters, only the Sabbath day had a name, all other days just a number. Day 1...6
So while on our calendar Nisan 14 is on a different weekday every year for the ancient Jews it was always on the day they called "Day-6" the day before Sabbath day.

Correct Ronen?

Shalom achi :)

Yes, I would agree with that...Day 6 of the 2nd week, or Day 14 of the 1st month, either or :) And yes, days and months originally were just numbers, until the Babylonian exile where they adopted Babylonian names for the months, still in use today.

Ronen

[gregoryfl]

:cloud9: How about God created out of Himself, which is literally creating out of NO THING.....ie. nothing that is material realm.

Amein to that  :iagree:

[gregoryfl]

Pentecost count of 7 perfect Sabbaths = 49 days. The next day (50th) is Pentecost.

When I insert New Moon days I'm unable to find a matching Pentecost count.

What's your solution to this problem Ronen?

Shavuot is arrived at by counting 7 complete shabbats. This is not a counting of days, but shabbats, so there will be more than 49 days in counting according to the Creator's calendar. Then, according to the Hebrew of Leviticus 23:16, ממחרת which means 'from morrow', not simply 'the morrow' as is commonly translated, due to the way Shavuot came to be counted. This same word is used in the previous verse where it says:

You will count off for yourselves from the morrow after the first sabbath, from the day you bring the sheaf of the wave offering:there shall be seven flawless sabbaths.
(Lev 23:15 CLV)

Now compare this with the next verse:

Until the morrow after the seventh sabbath you shall count off fifty days; then you will bring near an approach present of new grain to Yahweh.
(Lev 23:16 CLV)

The preposition 'from' is missing in this verse, and it ends up changing the meaning.

The 'from' in verse 15 instructs us to do something after that first shabbat. 'From' provides a starting point that instructs us to begin counting shabbats until you get to 7 complete ones. Then...

If the next verse was corrected to read like this:

Until from the morrow after the seventh sabbath you shall count off fifty days; then you will bring near an approach present of new grain to Yahweh.

the 'from' in this verse would do the same thing it did in the previous verse, providing us a starting point which instructs us to do something after the seventh shabbat, which would be to count 50 straight days.

Shavuot is a summer feast, and the first one used the wheat planted in the spring by the Israelites, which would take about 4 months to come to harvest, in summer. This would also be the time when the new wine would be available. Neither would be available in the time period dictated by counting

7 shabbats=49 days, then one day= a total of 50 days.

The count, as I have come to understand it being done originally, was:

7 shabbats (not counting days but only shabbats), then after that counting 50 days.

You have shared much, Whitewings, concerning harvest and such. Take another look at it from the agricultural standpoint, and then the scriptures describing what wheat is to be used, and what wine was available, and that will help I think in seeing that it indeed was a summer festival, almost 4 months, after Pesach.

Ronen

(http://1888.org/images/2011/07/05/6493/pentecost-count-explained-smaller.png)

[WhiteWings]

So the pentecost count is 50 days + whatever number of days contains 7 Sabbaths? That would make the count close to 100. That would be near the end of the wheat season? IIRC Pentecost is also nicknamed the second first fruits (first harvest of the wheat)


(http://www.gci.org/files/Harvest%20seasons%20in%20modern%20Israel.gif)


http://www.joybysurprise.com/Harvest_Times_In_Israel_.html

[gregoryfl]

That chart shows winter wheat being harvested in May. The wheat planted in the spring is the wheat used for shavuot, which would be harvested in the summer.

[WhiteWings]

Could be Ronen, the only farming I do is on the shelves of the local super market  :icon_jokercolor:

I only know barley was planted 70 days before harvest.


Any farmers around?

[gregoryfl]

Could be Ronen, the only farming I do is on the shelves of the local super market  :icon_jokercolor:

I only know barley was planted 70 days before harvest.


Any farmers around?

I too, am a marketeer.  :laughing7: One (there is more than this though) proof of this harvest coming from the planting in the spring is it's link with the new wine from the grape harvest (you can reference Acts 2:13), which is definitely a summer harvest in Israel. There is simply no new wine in the third month.

Ronen

[micah7:9]

I am a believer in Jesus Christ my Savior and continue to be blessed by the spiritual workings of the Lord. Still I must say you two fellas are in a world of your own. Not that I doubt any of what you say and produce, but I, me, personally find what you offer....literal history of the Hebrew and Aramaic, and it may have a lot to do with the siftings of the Word as it is mined, but to me you fellas have got the whole thing pretty much laid out and all we/I have to do is await ya'alls next post. I might say I am very glad to be able to read what is offered, even though I am the lowest fella on the learning and getting it pole, that all your calculations are but your historical, literal, Hebrew, Aramaic contributions. I admire it all. I am just not going to the bank. :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[gregoryfl]

Shalom micah :)

I look at the perspective I bring, as well as yours, and other, as facets of a beautiful gem. Some may only admire and be interested in but one facet, and some may like to admire several. From the literal to the spiritual, the facets and layers of all that is of Yeshua are endless. I could be wrong, but although I may appear to be enamored with the physical, I think if we could see things completely from our Creator's view, we would in fact be looking very much at the same things, just from different perspectives, neither of which is right or wrong. I believe you have no need of going to the bank Micah, for the bank is in you. :)
:HeartThrob:

Ronen

[WhiteWings]

I think only studying all the facets is the way to go.
I have  a feeling we sometimes need several keys to open a door to a "higher level"
Or.
Several facets are witnesses to each other. Without going into way off-topic detail I can say I personally studied two facets that are supposed to lead to the same event. Both were solid studies. But they point to something different. Meaning at least one of my studies is flawed. Meaning in the two facets served as witnesses showing I need to iron out some bugs in my studies.

[Cardinal]

Shalom micah :)

I look at the perspective I bring, as well as yours, and other, as facets of a beautiful gem. Some may only admire and be interested in but one facet, and some may like to admire several. From the literal to the spiritual, the facets and layers of all that is of Yeshua are endless. I could be wrong, but although I may appear to be enamored with the physical, I think if we could see things completely from our Creator's view, we would in fact be looking very much at the same things, just from different perspectives, neither of which is right or wrong. I believe you have no need of going to the bank Micah, for the bank is in you. :)
:HeartThrob:

Ronen

:cloud9: EXACTLY  :thumbsup: