Noah's ark

[micah7:9]

I've posted this view before, but there are numerous new members and I am always ready for a kindly and gentle foray.
I do not believe that Noah's Ark was/is literal nor do I believe in a global world flood.
The Bible, be it the old or the new, is an offering that is to be "spiritually" understood; yet folks along with theologians, all, from what I have read, bring the Word[Bible] DOWN to the human grasp (understanding) so that man can make movies.

Well there it is. Do I believe there is an Ark...Yes. Do I believe there was a Flood.....Yes. Do I believe that the Ark and the Flood are significant and important in understanding the Word?   YES! :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

"...a kindly and gentle foray."

OK, here's Laz's view:  I take the historical parts of the Bible historically, the spiritual parts spiritually, the doctrinal parts doctrinally, etc.  I don't take it as a one-interpretation-fits-all document.

In the case of the Flood, we have the Earth, a planet which always had water, but at some time in the past, only remembered in myth and legend, it got a lot more.  Where from?  We also have Mars, a planet which once had water, but lost almost all of it.  Where did it go?  The folks at NASA speak of great outflow channels, but where did that water go?  Could there be a connection?  Now if we follow the theories of Velikovsky and the newer ideas of the Electric Universe Model, we know that the two planets may have come into close proximity in the past.  It is just possible that they came so close that most of Mars' water flowed by gravity to Earth, while electric forces held them apart.

That's conjecture, and proof would lie in the future, in the form of Martian rocks matching rock inclusions in the Earth's sedimentary strata, as all that water must have carried a lot of rubble with it.  If there was/is life on Mars, there would also be a match-up with fossils and living forms here, as water would have carried them, too. 

The subsidence of the Flood waters was due to the expansion of the Earth, as ALL continents fit together, both geographically and geologically, across all oceans, on a smaller planet.  The creation of the deeps between the continents on a larger planet provided a place for the extra waters.

[micah7:9]

Laz, much of your insight and knowledge has caused me pause, but what you just posted after, "OK, here's Laz's view:  I take the historical parts of the Bible historically, the spiritual parts spiritually, the doctrinal parts doctrinally, etc.  I don't take it as a one-interpretation-fits-all document."

More than causing me to pause, it caused me to stop...because I don't care about Mars, NASA, or Velikovsky. I know you most certainly meant well, and I apologize for my negative concern. :Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

I meant that interpreting the Bible by one all-inclusive method, Fundamentalism or a Literal view, for instance, leads to being painted into some odd theo-illogical corners...

The rest consists of a lot of dots I have connected over many years.  I try to keep it all in a Biblical framework.

[micah7:9]

 :iagree: :dsunny: :banana:

[WhiteWings]

"...a kindly and gentle foray."

OK, here's Laz's view:  I take the historical parts of the Bible historically, the spiritual parts spiritually, the doctrinal parts doctrinally, etc.  I don't take it as a one-interpretation-fits-all document.

I think that view is wrong  :winkgrin:
The Bible seems to have 4 layers of depth. So everything has 4 meanings. I've seen that reapear in many places on a more natural level like the rainbow covenant marriage covenant, layout of the Temple and eden, etc

Don't ask me to give all those layers because I rarely get past layer 2.

I think the local flood is a historical fact. I think the ark was 100% real. I think that ark is a pattern  of the ark that stood in the HoH.


Just my  :2c: which in the current economic state buys you about a grain of salt.


--> Laz I just showed you a second layer of  :2c: 

:Peace2:

[micah7:9]

"I think the ark was 100% real. I think that ark is a pattern  of the ark that stood in the HoH." (WW)

I believe that the ark is a pattern for the HoH.
What I ask is was the ark of Noah literal? Was there an actual ark? I also believe the flood was local.

[WhiteWings]

Yes, the ark was a real and literal boat.

[micah7:9]

Yes, the ark was a real and literal boat.

OK :2c:

[Lazarus Short]

No, the Ark was not exactly a boat:  no sails, no oars, no prop.  It was a big box to float on the water.  I think "barge" would be closer than "boat."

I subscribe to a universal flood, BTW.

[sheila]

 Father is rich with His symbolgy[Moses floating in a little reed basket.[ark].......[word of the Lord come to deliver

His people from slavery to Egypt]...Jesus teaching from a boat.......


    God's temple in heaven opened..and within it seen the ark of the covenant......Holy box/cube shaped city

coming down from heaven.......word of God contained in an ark....ark angels that minster to those who

  are to inherit salvation...Hark the herald angels=hear the ark angels....as they minster unto  the 'WORD OF

GOD"

    Jesus as the ARK/WORD OF GOD" come inflesh..walked above the waters...the power of the 'word of God"

  to stop up the flow of the Jordan[always at flood stage]  He that is the 'firstborn of the dead' leading forth

and breaking open the gates of death...until all Israel has 'passed over' the Jordan

   ...and all your children shall be taught of God....what a wonderful TEACHER!!!

[WhiteWings]

We also have Mars, a planet which once had water, but lost almost all of it.  Where did it go?  The folks at NASA speak of great outflow channels, but where did that water go?

It's sure large quantities went into space.
But that can impossibly have happened during the flood. The time from the moment the rain stopped and the land was dry enough to walk on was short. To evaporate all that water that fast requires heat that would boil everything inside the ark. Not to mention the required pressure. So, if the flood was global the water must still be here. You might like the Hydro plate theory.

[micah7:9]

I do not believe there was a global flood and science proves it so.
What would be the purpose of a world wide flood?
As far as the ark, no one has found the Ark of the Covenant (not even Indy) and no one will find the Ark of Noah(Noe) at least that's how I understand it.
The Book is a book of spiritual understanding and reason [for me.]
The Ark of the Covenant as well as Noah's Ark both represent JESUS CHRIST and as far as I see it Jesus being the Lord(Jehovah) who is the Lord God and the deity God that I believe in, is yes rest and love and  SPIRIT. For me, as I am led to study, there is ONE and that ONE is SPIRIT, so most of what I learn and want to learn, begins and ends with a formula, ONE and SPIRIT.  :dsunny:

[Jock]

Looks like the movie "Noah" is offending people, the Muslims in particular. I suppose that the religious crowd will jump on it too. I may go see it, not sure yet, but I don't expect it to be true to scripture, nor spiritual.

[Lazarus Short]

As far as the ark, no one has found the Ark of the Covenant (not even Indy) and no one will find the Ark of Noah(Noe) at least that's how I understand it.

Ron Wyatt claimed to have found both.  There are lots of articles on the www, and videos on EweToob.  Did he really find them?  I'm mostly convinced on Noah's Ark, more skeptical on the Ark of the Covenant.  Happily, my faith does not rest on what Ron Wyatt (or anyone else) found, or didn't find.

[micah7:9]

In my mind and in my lifetime should anyone find a physical Noah's ark or Ark of the Covenant, then the Bible for me is a non truth.
Jesus is.... THE Ark and is Real.. and (i) am a soul within that "pitched within and without" ark in the process of being made whole, healed=saved. To clutter my thoughts with historical literacy I find foolish. God IS Spirit and Jo. 6:63......the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
For me the Spirit is the real(literal and historical in a sence) and i will be the first to admit i know nothing about Spirit(and please lets not clutter a discussion with ruach and pneuma) God IS Spirit!! and "until" He gives us the the Wisdom and Understanding just what "spirit" "is" we are like a dog chasing it's tail.
Personally i have received spiritual insight as well as a good many of you all, but I dare say that "most" of our spiritual insight has come from the religious theology offered from the denomination or sect that caused us to sprout where we grew up or what we began to follow[searching], those were are building blocks.. A,B,C blocks and as hard as we try, it was our staple....why.... WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT SPIRIT IS... I know that's a shock. The disciples followed(they were called) but they didn't know what spirit was, even thought they walked beside SPIRIT; we all are called [GLORY] but we are not all CHOSEN... for if we were...we would KNOW what Spirit IS.
KNOW= yada.....eidō
We, in hope, will know, but as Paul said Php 3:12  I do not say that I have already won the race or have already reached perfection. But I am pressing on, striving to lay hold of the prize for which also Christ has laid hold of me.
Php 3:13  Brethren, I do not imagine that I have yet laid hold of it. But this one thing I do--forgetting everything which is past and stretching forward to what lies in front of me,
Php 3:14  with my eyes fixed on the goal I push on to secure the prize of God's heavenward call in Christ Jesus.
That Is Spirit. At least that's the  :2c: that's been given me.

[Tapioca]

That reminds me of this scripture: 1Cor.13:12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.
I do believe God works with us in whatever strange denomination, or none, for that matter, we are thrown into. It's a good thing for us all He's no respecter of persons as a human being is, so much of the time.

[rosered]

That reminds me of this scripture: 1Cor.13:12 For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.
I do believe God works with us in whatever strange denomination, or none, for that matter, we are thrown into. It's a good thing for us all He's no respecter of persons as a human being is, so much of the time.

Amen,  Lovely, T !!  well said !

[micah7:9]

How long are we going to use the "glass darkly" as our foil to understanding? I understand the inference, but it also shows our stalemate for understanding. Either some of us are growing or we are just a huddled crowd of believers cowering. Are we as believers learning or warming seats?
I, that's me, personally chose Noah's Ark as a place of starting... perhaps finding the stones that carry the 10 commandments would be more suitable. We have history in the Bible, His written Word, but have we/man not looked at the BIBLE as just another book of history, as from a school, something that is literal history? I for one cannot see that.  :2c:

[Tapioca]

I don't think it's used as a foil. I see it as not seeing the way we will see, and know, when we are with Him. It's just a fact, not an excuse.

[micah7:9]

 A "fact"?  :Chinscratch:

[Tapioca]

It's a "fact" that we don't see completely. Okay?

[jabcat]

It's a "fact" that we don't see completely. Okay?

I agree.  Paul said it.  That doesn't mean we can't grow.  We grow despite our limits.  He's the vine, we are the branches.

[micah7:9]

I agree, with you both, but still i have an unrest that we just circle around the "fact" of a glass darkly. Does that ever seem like an excuse, rather than a fact? I'm just asking.
Anyway, Noah's ark? :dsunny: Is Paul "our" last spokes person? Lets close up our studies and go back to what ever we were doing when before we read 1Co 13:12  for we see now through a mirror obscurely, and then face to face; now I know in part, and then I shall fully know, as also I was known;


Thanks and good night. :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[rrich7]

Should we focus whether it was real or not? Is that absolutely a necessary understanding to our faith. We all pull a good message from it regardless.

I mean I do agree with Laz in that we may have to see the bible multiple ways. Some things may have been meant to be taken literally & if we doubt that things may be "impossible" we also have to remember that everything with God is possible. Some of us before we came here thought God saving all of man was 'out of His power' or do we take those scriptures that state that as metaphors to mean something else.

I look at it this way, if God says, "this is what I did, will do," are we to take that to be metaphorically even though it is a clear cut statement?? I personally see some things in the bible were examples to show Gods power. If it wasn't for scientists, I wouldn't see God more & more as I learn anatomy & how the body works throughout my courses. More & more I see God, so I don't discredit science or researchers or history completely. God uses EVERYTHING for his purpose.

If He says have faith like a child while talking to men, well obviously, He's using an example so people gain better understanding.

God gave man wisdom, even in science with its many flaws (as everything has) since we are all flawed, but I don't ever think we should discredit how powerful God.

If He wanted to flood the earth, He most certainly would have & if that is what He wished He most certainly did.
If when the word was inspired by Him & He only meant it to be metaphorical then that's what was done.

However can any one of us say matter-of-factly that one view is better than the other or truer... no, because none of us know the true depths & mysteries of His ways, even though He reveal bits & pieces to us we are all still veiled.

Besides, (said with a smile), I don't think that matters anyway. We get the message either way, if He wishes us to get the message & the method used to get us the message is up to Him too. :)

Each of us understands things as He is allowing us to understand, so I honestly don't believe there's any right or wrong here, as long as you leave with the right message.