Is there hyperbole in the OT?

[micah7:9]

That's the thought, is there hyperbole in the OT? Of course, and I believe it is to those who will be given to understand the expectancy and exaggeration of His words.... then the answers will just begin to unfold. Everything the Lord God said in His Word is "hyperbole." That's why we/man/humans[me included] don't get it.
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
There you have it, John was put in a position/place in time, BEFORE the Lord's day, John was put in a place in time, a position to receive. We/me have not. Everything I say or hear from folks, is me/us coming up with what I/we have imagined to discover, since we were brought out of religions chains. But I, and I don't believe others can say I WAS IN THE SPIRIT ON THE LORD'S DAY, so what we say we see, is still harbored and tied to the docks and shores of our imagination(man's) with a great deal of want.
Hyperbole.....everything Jesus did and said was hyperbole! Jesus is SPIRIT and anything to do with Spirit is certainly hyperbole! ANYTHING we, with our human minds imagine as understanding has no real value, except to our vanity. HE will give to whom He will give....WE pray. And I must add just my opinion and  :2c:

[Seth]

Gary Amirault put together a few examples: http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/hyperbole.htm

It's not just the OT, it's the whole bible. The Lake of Fire is hyperbolic too, as well as being bound up hand and foot and thrown in there.

[micah7:9]

Yea....so perhaps an answer to did God command this at least somewhat?

[eaglesway]

Gary Amirault put together a few examples: http://www.tentmaker.org/Biblematters/hyperbole.htm

It's not just the OT, it's the whole bible. The Lake of Fire is hyperbolic too, as well as being bound up hand and foot and thrown in there.

The lake of fire, forgive me brothers lol, is not hyperbole. It is not an exagerated example of a reality less potent. I believe hyperbole exists in the scriptures, but the lake of fire is a metaphor given as a spiritual description. ("Comparing spiritual terms with spiritual realities" 1 Cor 2)

What I mean is this. LAKE OF FIRE. Ouch. Powerful descriptive phrase.

Why so direct, blunt, awe inspiring and even terrible in dimensions and imaginations provoked? Because, as Jesus our Lord tells us, YOU DON"T WANNA BE THERE.

The refuge is in Jesus for the bloodwashed- who need not fear it, for their names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Lamb's book of life? Is ther an actual book? "And the court sat and books were opened". I dont think they are actual books. I think the books are our consciences. "And those who knew the Lord spoke to one another and the Lord opened a book of remembrance". What is the book of remembrance? Exactly? I don't know, but it is not hyperbole, it is a metaphor for a memorial in the mind of God that will bear eternal witness to the wisdom of God among his servants.

"On the day God will judge the secrets of men's hearts through Jesus Christ our Lord".

These books are the secrets of our hearts, recorded in the conscience and displayed always, now and then before God.

Jesus used powerful images to AMPLIFY POWERFUL THEMES AND REALITIES.

The fire is not the literal flame that burns beneath my marshmellows- no, it is MORE REAL THAN THAT. It is the fire of God's presence. "They will be tormented in the presence of God and His holy angels".

This fire is like RAIN and WIND to the redeemed.

It is a purging cauldron to His adversaries.

Sure, IT IS BURNING NOW. But the aionian pur or aionian kolassis is also a THEN experience for the stubborn of heart, the enemies of love, the haters and predators of this age who refuse to yield to the love of God demonstrated at the cross of Christ and must be subjected in the ages to come.

To me it is simple, "But after your hardness and impenitent heart you treasure up unto yourself wrath against the day of wrath and the revelation of the righteous judgment of God who will render unto every man according to his deeds, unto them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor and immortality- eternal life. But to them that are contentious and do not obey the truth indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish upon every soul that does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Gentile.But glory, honor and peace to every man who does good, of the Jew first and also the Gentile"

This wrath and indignation is not hyperbole. It is the reality of the fate that awaits those who stand steadfastly against the cross of Jesus Christ, now for some, in the age to come for others.

"What is it to you if God willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with longsuffering the vessels fitted for destruction, order to demonstrate the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He has called, of the Jew and the Gentile?'

Does this mean God is unjust- the verses continue-" Who are you, the clay, to ask the potter, 'Why have you made me what you have made me"'.

I am not debating the existence of hyperbole. I am saying that the universal application of it to the scriptures about the judgment of God is in the age to come, especially as regards Jesus' use of the metaphor of gehenna and the Spirit's use of the lake of fire in the apocalypse of John, is simply an error.

[WhiteWings]

as well as being bound up hand and foot and thrown in there.

I wonder that's really a hyperbole. Think not. Just as LoF isn't a hyperbole, but a misunderstood reality/symbology.

" Then Abraham built the altar, readied the wood, and bound Isaac for sacrifice. (See Genesis 22:2–9.)

Traditionally, an animal's legs were bound before it was sacrificed. In Jewish literature the story of Abraham and Isaac is known as the Akedah, or "The Binding," in reference to Abraham binding his son.

I bet the Jewish audience made the link to that teaching. Likewise, when Jesus spoke about salting, which was done with all burned offerings.

To take this one step further God always accepted proper sacrifices....  :Chinscratch:

[eaglesway]

And still does :o)

You also, as living stones, are being built into a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices which are acceptable to God through Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:5)

I urge you brothers by the mercies of God to offer your bodies as a living and holy sacrifice, which is your spiritual service of worship. (Roma 12:1-3)

[Seth]

The issue of hyperbole in the Bible is more complex when factoring in spiritual reality and physical experience. The spiritual reality can be just as potent, but much more subtle to the human perception because we filter experiences through our flesh (generally speaking).

Hyperbole is used to take something more subtle and taking it to an extreme to reveal a truth. For example, if someone was carrying bags to the car and they were heavy, they could say, "it felt like carrying 200 hippos to the zoo." It's not to say the bags were not heavy by using hyperbole, but by doing so the person who didn't carry the bags can get beyond the subtly of the actual experience and understand the FEELING of weight with an extreme example.

So, this comes down to what we understand the Lake of Fire to represent. I believe, and I could provide many scriptures to show it, that the Lake of Fire represents a spiritual state of darkness and death of the carnal mind and the sins and transgressions that proceed forth from that state.

Human beings enjoy sin, so they do not see the damage it does. In that sense, the spiritual reality of the LOF is not less potent, but it is describing a damage more subtle to the human perception. The carnal mind is based on SENSES, feeling, sensations, and the spiritual things are invisible, not felt in a physical way.

If you asked a heroin addict if they would rather continue doing heroin or be bound up hand and foot and thrown into a literal furnace of fire, they would choose heroin, of course. Heck, even their parents would probably choose the same for them. Why? Because fire would physically hurt to an extreme degree, but being a heroin addict causes emotional pain which the addict believes he could deal with.

It's not that being an addict is less damaging than being burned alive by fire, from a spiritual perspective. In fact, you could even say it's worse. But the sorrow and the inward pain that sin causes is more subtle to the human perception, and less easily perceived by the carnal mind than an image of being bound hand and foot and thrown into fire.

I would prefer being depressed than if someone literally set me on fire, because being set on fire physically hurts more. That extremity allows us to see the spiritual damage of sin, even when sin may be less physically painful, or not painful at all.

[rosered]

 

Hyperbole   is a manmade   term
  to show an exaggerated   sense of speaking  .

  Like ''Take up your cross and follow me ''  For me  its a simple truth of ,
   
  To take up your cross  , its not a literal cross   of two huge beams  strapped on your back
  and you have to drag this around you for the rest of your days.
 
Its more of a statement of Following Jesus     bearing reproches of mankind whom does not understand   your faith /purpose   and having the mentality of    Forgive them Father for they know not what they do
[Psa 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee. ]

  Just as pulling out the beam in your own eye   so you can remove the  splinter in your brothers eye  [seeing what is right and good morally ]
  Jesus was not meaning a literal   beam  , but  speaking of   huge obsticle   that is keeping you in blindness still of your own  lives   ,  before you even think of helping anyone else  with their issues .

I can see them more of parables /teachings  of spiritual truths, a short story that teaches a moral/ considered right and good  or spiritual lesson and comparing those things  in the  earthly sense 

  For me ,  the Lake of fire is   for those with the'' mark of the beast ''on them ,  simple and  truthfully

the Wine again is used in  many scriptures  , representing the blood covenants
Life is in the blood and the shedding of blood [Jesus Christ  the Lamb of God is the only  acceptable  sacrifice    for sin by God Himself for us all ]   
  but the drunkeness of wine is  the  violence  of  men  being beastly [ignorant of Gods Wisdom ]

We know by the scriptures  that the wrath of God is complete and  entire   and finnished in Babylon  pouring out the bowls /vials of His wrath in Her   and uses the Beasts to tear her flesh and burn  her with fire
Dan 5  is a great expale of humbling the  heart of King Neb  and destroying Babylon in him ,  and than Giving God the glory and thankful praise

  one of  the ten heads of the beast whom leaves their mark on  beastly men [ignorant of Gods  work and desire ] and glory  to be seen   , King Nebs deadly wound was healed by God ,  because they cut down the  tree of knowledge of good and evil and yet  left a stump in the earth for  New growth    Dan 5:21   And he was driven from the sons of men; and his heart was made like the beasts, and his dwelling was with the wild asses: they fed him with grass like oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven; till he knew that the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.   


Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God

  I do not want this to be long 

  stopping here , but there is so much more , its God whom gives His Holy Spirit and Widsom  liberally when you ask Him  , we share these tresures  with others hoping  for Gods blessing  in them  and to all   in One SPIRIT  of unity in Christ 

  God bless you all

[rosered]

 
  Hi Seth ,
your posting  was done almost the same time 
  Had to stop for a call on this old dial up

  I like   much of what you said , but we dont like sin , its a trap  many get   caught into 
being as human  and as beasts we dont know any better than to do what we do , until Jesus Comes to rescue us out of sin 
  there is a sinless   seed within that    must grow in truth and grace
  it does not come till the Lord secures it within our hearts / minds

   the  reap what you sow God is not mocked  comes to mind

   when you sow  from the seeds of the tree of knowledge of good and evil 
  death and life are both    found in that tree
  This is why Jesus says make the tree good and its fruit or make it corrupt a tree is known by its fruit   [works ]   of God or  of mankinds   open showings of the wicked one   still in them

that the need for Jesus is even more   evident
and those whom have Jesus  SHOULD be making intercession to God though Jesus on their  behalf     for deliverance  and salvation   and Jesus to come to them because we love as Jesus  loves   and  love  our enemies of the cross of Jesus Christ , hope they  come  to  the  cross the pivotal  point of surrender and JESUS  becomes their head/mind of Christ  and authority !!

Phl 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ
  just my thoughts on this  , God bless

[Seth]

I think people do like sin on a certain level. I don't think people chase after something that doesn't have some kind of  reward on some level. but the damage it causes to us spiritually is more subtle to our senses than a lake of literal fire so God is using extreme imagery to our senses to cut through the subtlety.

[rosered]

I think people do like sin on a certain level. I don't think people chase after something that doesn't have some kind of  reward on some level. but the damage it causes to us spiritually is more subtle to our senses than a lake of literal fire so God is using extreme imagery to our senses to cut through the subtlety.

  Hi Bro Seth

I understand what you are saying  here .   


  and  sin  is done in the darkness /ignorance of the ways of God ,  but always comes to Light   in the end [ Jesus promise  and work  will reveal it ]

   the gold[TRUTH ]  tried in the Fire  , exposing the nakedness [sin ]     
of still eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil   in the garden of God

  everyone born of Adam   is given this  exercise    and training       and the day we  eat of it we shall die Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


  not the night  / still ignorant   we eat in it , its when the Light of Day Jesus shows us    than we die in sin   to God

  This is why sin is  to KNOW  to do good and do it not , this is sin   
  till the law  comes  many  perish  still in ignorance 
not   knowing   good or evil

the dead know nothing

I cannot say  any  thing about Gods mercy  here except that Jesus did not come  for nothing
  His work will  be perfect in every  way  and will not fail   
I have such a hard time telling this to many of my ET   brothers and sisters

some cannot believe the GOD  though Jesus Chirist  will make all things new  and save all   
  they just think its up to  them  to save themselves   with Jesus help
 
I always say its not what you do for God , but What God has done for you  with thanksgiving   and  graceful heart of love  for all those suffering because of sin in their lives
Lake of fire is for those with   that mark of the beast and not the seal of the Living God

  and I do  believe its the firey law and trials   of   birthing pangs   for the sons of God   being born to HIS GLORY
  every son recieved is chastened and scourged     first
  Its got to be in His order

  I dont want to think I have it all figured out , I sure dont , but I believe the scriptures   have those answers  hidden in them  to reveal His  Face and work  of God in them

still seeking  and praying as honest as I know how to   for all to be saved  and Know the Love of GOD       many mock and think its just wishful thinking 

But I believe GOD   

[Seth]

always say its not what you do for God , but What God has done for you 

I think we are pretty much on the same page. I like the above quote, and I would actually say that I now interpret that differently than I used to. I see the "for you" akin to "through you." In other words, it's not what you do for God, but what God does through you, for your neighbor. I think lacking that latter part is why I think the LOF is for the many called and the New Jerusalem is for the few chosen, the purpose of which is to bring everyone else into thier glorious liberty.

I think that while sin might bring pleasure, it certainly cannot bring ultimate satisfaction, or that liberty.  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

always say its not what you do for God , but What God has done for you 

I think we are pretty much on the same page. I like the above quote, and I would actually say that I now interpret that differently than I used to. I see the "for you" akin to "through you." In other words, it's not what you do for God, but what God does through you, for your neighbor. I think lacking that latter part is why I think the LOF is for the many called and the New Jerusalem is for the few chosen, the purpose of which is to bring everyone else into thier glorious liberty.

I think that while sin might bring pleasure, it certainly cannot bring ultimate satisfaction, or that liberty.  :HeartThrob:

amen   though Christ who strengthens   us !!!  :thumbsup:


1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ  

[marie glen]

..the Greek culture and language was very dramatic.. but, so is life and death..

If God is life.. and I'm not sure what else would be.. and if He's perfection, then to be imperfect implies nonlife, falling apart(ness), imperfection, suffering, struggle, all exaggeration? yet, very real... hence a rescue needed.. but what was God's other option? an ant farm? robots?

Learning good from evil, life from death... God perhaps is creating an Un-breakable paradise, because the full understanding of life from nonlife/wandering from God who IS lie and perfection.. can only eveR result in a self destructive puff of smoke (apocalypse, truth you cannot, cannot wander from God and go on living.. a foundtaion truth before the universe can  be set free and mortals can "be like Jesus"...

"If a stranger enter the room and all are talking in unknown tongues, how will they understand?" and learn and perceive Truth?

[sheila]

very good points,Marie.  I do beleive that God is the TOL in the midst of the garden...and the time is near

when He shall uproot every plant He did not plant[tokogae/serpents seed/fruit]..no pain nor suffering,tears

nor death= remembered no more...[a mere growth of the night]

  no knowledge of evil.  He would speak to them in the breezy part of the day

   all we will know is life..Tol /God will be all in all.

   innocence is fine for babes..under the watchful/protective eyes of their parents...........

  but wisdom rquires expierence....cautious as the serpent,yet innocent as doves...this is the new creature

   the image of Christ.

[marie glen]

Sheila,

    :smile: :thumbsup:

[shawn]

Good stuff Marie.