Hot Coals?

[Jock]

Romans 12:20 states ""BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."

I don't have any problem doing this for my enemy, all the way through the chapter, Yeshua is speaking about the sort of people we should be. He does speak a little about His judgement though. We are not to seek revenge but He will. I could only speculate on what that could be, but it's the part about heaping hot coals on his head.

That throws me a bit. Any wisdom on this?

Shalom

Jock.  :sigh:

[Seth]

My thoughts on it: It's not about revenge. Fire in the Bible is, I believe, a general symbol for judgment. Often times, the Bible makes a correlation between light, fire, and judgment toward a purpose of exposure, to shine a light on something.

Martin Luther King Jr. understood Romans 12:20 inside, outside, upside, and all aroundside. They didn't fight back, and so they EXPOSED and HUMBLED the adversaries. They heaped burning coals on their heads and it was all over the television. Nobody could deny what they saw, and it only furthered the cause of right and brought shame to what is wrong. That shame is humbling, and God wants humbled people, he wants hard clay ground to powder.

When God glorifies himself through the saints (whoever they will be) that will be their cause, to expose what is hidden in the shadows.

[rosered]

  Hi Jock  ,
  I love those kind of questions  ,  you make me  look again , after years ago of looking into this  I had almost forgot 

I know there is a custom of  a village    and  one    given on any certain  morning     goes to carrying a basket of ambers on their head      to help light up the rest of the fires     that have gone out over night   in the others  tents   for warming and  heat and cooking , light 

For me the  metaphorical meaning   it seems this is a kindness   to stir up the minds  and  makes the consciences   of those growing cold or  as dead   by doing good   to them 
It makes me think of Jesus saying  in Revelations  , I wish you were hot or cold  , but not in the lukewarm  state 
or numb    ,    and  the  coals of fire would   heat up quickly those whom are growing cold  they would awaken of sorts  out of the sleep  or sin  state of mind / thinking

   I always wondered about the conscience being seared with a hot iron   too
  and that has a similiar meaning


Romans 2:15 (ESV)
15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them


  for me this is peace or shame for their actions , this is the work of the law written in their hearts /minds   and their  own  conscience is  bearing witness to the Spirit of Truth [Holy Spirit ] teaching them   
1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 

1Ti 4:2   Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;G7243 

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth
seared with a hot iron     this one  word  is   only for that meaning .Strong's G2743 - kaustēriazō
to mark by branding, to brand, branded with their own consciences
whose souls are branded with the marks of sin
who carry about with them the perpetual consciousness of sin

seared

in a medical sense, to cauterise, remover by cautery


I believe its good to stir up the minds / hearts of those whom believe and awaken them from  the sleep   of being sin sick  that is another verse     1Cr 11:25   After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 


1Cr 11:26   For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 


1Cr 11:27  Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 


1Cr 11:28   But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 


1Cr 11:29   For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 


1Cr 11:30  For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 


1Cr 11:31   For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 
1Cr 11:32  But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 

   For me these all tie in together  , not only to help others but also keeping us in check

[Seth]

Rosered  :goodpost:

[rosered]

  you  and I posted at the same time Seth  :thumbsup:
I agree   the humbling of the Lords Spirit working in  us and on us all  !

[Seth]

Yup, the great thing about hard clay ground to powder, is that you can then add water and make a new pot, and when you make a new pot, the hands are upon the clay, interwoven. They are the hands of a loving creator who understands us.

[rosered]

Yup, the great thing about hard clay ground to powder, is that you can then add water and make a new pot, and when you make a new pot, the hands are upon the clay, interwoven. They are the hands of a loving creator who understands us.

  Amen Bro and we dont forget the oven and fires   tempuring  removing the dross to make it perfect for His use ! :winkgrin:

[Seth]

It's one of the things that gives me comfort, that he understands us. In my ET church days, they filled my head with the garbage that God can't stand our sin, and that he is too Holy to be in the presence of sin, as though he would be tainted rather than sin itself destroyed in his presence.

The big objection to UR is always the Hitler Question. Even Hitler? Gasp! As though God didn't know him better than he knew himself. God understands the evil, and he knows how to handle it. He's not afraid to get his hands dirty in the deep dark clay of our hardened sin, because his hands are what give the new form. YES! EVEN HITLER!  :doh:

God is not afraid of our sin, he knows how to overcome it. Jesus already did and he knows how to drag everyone to his cross and have us to be executed with him.

The world will thank him later.... :laughing7:

[JulieTang84]

Quoted from Seth:
"My thoughts on it: It's not about revenge. Fire in the Bible is, I believe, a general symbol for judgment. Often times, the Bible makes a correlation between light, fire, and judgment toward a purpose of exposure, to shine a light on something."

I agree with you Seth, fire is not about revenge; however, I would like to add the fire is typically used to signify "Cleansing." Paul makes it a point to ensure all can know that Father is a consuming FIRE and that in the day of JUDGMENT, there is no punishment as the church would have many believe, but rather a cleansing or purification (Sulphur and Brimstone)

1Cr 3:15
If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

It could be argued, that suffering Loss is a form of punishment, but let's be clear on what is being lost. All the darkness so that only LIGHT remains.

Yes, as you put it: "the Bible makes a correlation between light, fire, and judgment toward a purpose of exposure, to shine a light on something."

Or dispelling all darkness  :dsunny:

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I don't really see an either/or to it. Meaning, I agree. Cleansing is part of it.

What is being lost is all the darkness, correct. The reason why there is suffering however, is because the house that was built is to be destroyed. Paul's urgency with the Corinthian church is for them to build "houses" which can withstand the fire, so that they do not fall.

The fall of the house is what causes the suffering, and that is why the kindness of people is as hot coals to their tormentors. It exposes their shame and nakedness, and that is what causes the house to fall. The idea of the house falling is not a BAD thing, but it's not necessarily a PLEASANT thing.

If you ever show kindness to someone who does evil, many times, not necessarily ALL the time, it results in a sense of embarrassment for the one who does the evil. It causes them to question themselves. This is small scale stuff, but I believe it will happen on a greater scale in the Day of the Lord.

[WhiteWings]

http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/the-new-testament-was-written-in-hebrew-(not-greek)/msg166494/#msg166494

[Seth]

http://www.egrc.net/articles/Rock/Puzzling_Passages/BurningCoals.html

Interesting point of view

[Jock]

Wow!

Thanks guys for your input, my wife mentioned that the offending person would be embarrassed and humiliated by the kindness of the believer, thus/hopefully giving the offender a path to repentance.

I believe that the Lord tells us to hold back judgement, the He will repay, is that He doesn't trust us in more weighty matters like Judgement and Punishment.

Seth, that link you put up was brilliant, thanks to all!

Shalom

Jock. :Peace2:

[WhiteWings]

It makes me think of Jesus saying  in Revelations  , I wish you were hot or cold  , but not in the lukewarm  state  or numb, and  the  coals of fire would   heat up quickly those whom are growing cold  they would awaken of sorts  out of the sleep  or sin  state of mind / thinking

Rosey that's not what the verse implies imo.
"I wish you were hot or cold"

Jesus said either hot or cold are good. So His intention wasn't to get warm them up with coals. In fact I think the verse has nothing spiritual in it. It's a condemnation resulting from the other actions of the church.

Laodicea had no water sources of it's own. It received both cold river water and hot spring water from 2 neighboring cities through aqueducts. The hot spring water turned lukewarm and so did the cold river water. The stone piping was heavily polluted and the water was hardly drinkable.

Jesus compared their ways to undrinkable water.

[rosered]

It makes me think of Jesus saying  in Revelations  , I wish you were hot or cold  , but not in the lukewarm  state  or numb, and  the  coals of fire would   heat up quickly those whom are growing cold  they would awaken of sorts  out of the sleep  or sin  state of mind / thinking

Rosey that's not what the verse implies imo.
"I wish you were hot or cold"

Jesus said either hot or cold are good. So His intention wasn't to get warm them up with coals. In fact I think the verse has nothing spiritual in it. It's a condemnation resulting from the other actions of the church.

Laodicea had no water sources of it's own. It received both cold river water and hot spring water from 2 neighboring cities through aqueducts. The hot spring water turned lukewarm and so did the cold river water. The stone piping was heavily polluted and the water was hardly drinkable.

Jesus compared their ways to undrinkable water.

Thanks for the insight WW !
Yes ,   It does   say  ,The lukewarm state gets you  spued out of His mouth
  Thanks for showing how the  lukewarm  water is  explained 
:thumbsup: