Concept vs Doctrine, Tradition vs Everything...

[Lazarus Short]

I was thinking back to my Southern Baptist upbringing lately, just as I have been taking a second look at Seventh-Day Adventism, of which I was a member for a while.  Anyway, I recall that most Baptists will say we have free will, and in almost the same breath, and without perceiving any contradiction, they will give assent to the doctrine of Irresistible Grace. 

Now if IG is true, then how can we have free will?  I don't want to start a long, drawn out, discussion about the two.  I mostly would like to discuss how people can hold contradictory concepts.  I think of the tension between "God Loves You" and "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God."  Is it really so difficult to see both the forest and the trees?  Is it so hard to trace the themes which run through the pages of Scripture?  People claim to follow Jesus, and also uphold Church Tradition, but wait, Jesus spoke against the Tradition of His day.  Crazy stuff!

Folks, I am handling the germ of an idea.  If I ramble, please post and make it straight. :Chinscratch:

[WhiteWings]

It's the consequence of false doctrine.
It's no problem to isolate a certain concept like grace. It's quite easy to prove anything about grace. And likewise for free will, election and other things.
The real test of doctrine is to merge all those subdoctrines into one doctrine without the sub-doctrine clashing.

And that's what I quite often see. People get stuck in their own doctrine. Their views conflict so they use escape cards like "God's ways are higher" or 6 volume explanations why it's sin to spit on your neighbor but it's great to roast someone for eternity.

[JulieTang84]

Freewill to me in regard to religious concepts is no different than a bumper-car fair ground sideshow. Sure anyone can be as aggressive as they want, or as cautious and as timid as they choose. Some will go all out and seek the ones that just stick to the edges, hoping to catch them off guard. There are no real rules, other than leaving the bumper cars containing very young children alone, even protecting them.


Sounds a lot like life, but the bumper-car universe is smaller than most houses. Choices mostly are free, but severely constrained.


There are two bodies and as such there are must also be two wills. There is a physical body and there is a spiritual body. (1 Cor 15:44)


Of course we are free to act. At a cross road the choice may not be simple, but it is ours not make. If no choice is made, we would be at the crossroad still. Fathers plan is not dependent on which road we choose. Of course choosing one over the other might bring profound spiritual insight; however, we cannot know what would have if we had chosen the other.


However, spiritually; free will is non existent. There is Fathers will and his will alone, and this is totally okay. Jesus knew and taught this; doing or saying nothing of himself. As each of us grows spiritually, the call of the physical gives way to the Love of Spirit. The concept that is almost too bizarre to comprehend, is that SPIRITUALLY:   Who wants to be FREE?  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:


Don't we all long (ache) to return to where we are meant to be?  :cloud9:


Love Julie  :HeartThrob: