When confronted with "fake" beggars. (Much text)

[Forsakemenot]

Hi all. I hope this can somehow be considered UR-related even if it's not directly so, it's just that I rather want to write this in a forum where I expect people to be nice and answer from their hearts.

I am stuck with a little dilemma here and am hoping that someone can give me some insight.

Near where I live, sometimes stands a man selling homeless magazines right outside a food store. It is pretty common for people here to do that since people are more likely to have loose cash on them, and perhaps feel more generous after just buying something to eat for themselves.

The first time I saw this man I noticed that he didn't have the regular ID-tag that people selling this particular magazine are required to have, of course, some might wear it on the inside but it's usually unlikely.
Still I gave him 2 Eur because I figured that I myself would never stand like that outside a store selling magazines unless I was really desperate, so he probably needed that money more than I did at least. Inside the store I bought some orange juice, a bottle of water and later a sandwich at the bakery which I gave to him. I approached him asking if he was hungry and then gave him the bag with the breakfast, he seemed happy and grateful, but then he began to look trough his bag and took up a photo of a little girl that appeared to be his daughter and showed me. Then he told me she had a birthday and was trying to poke for a donation, I then politely retracted as I started feeling very uncomfortable because it felt as though he was trying to take advantage of the situation.

I have made an agreement with myself of sorts that I will not pass by a lonely beggar without giving at least something, so I gave him again one or two times, but the last time I saw him I did not and I had to ask my friend if it was bad of me because I don't know right now. He also appears to be from the very country where many people come here to Germany working for criminal organisations. Usually they try to give you roses and just generally beg on the streets, but I never expected them to sell homeless magazines, so I was not prepared and did not immediately react.

Now to the dilemma.

One part of me tells me, the man is standing there where I would never, unless I really really needed it, so somehow he must be doing this because he has to. There are way more profitable ways of making money, otherweise homeless people would be getting off the street at a faster rate.

The other part, that is now stronger tells me that this man is using a system and is taking from real homeless people, that he is a parasite that feeds on the very poorest. His clothes are fine, his bag is fine, he has a cellphone and isn't carrying his home with him. He seems healthy and strong, his daughter had a nice dress and he obviously needed a camera to take the picture.

I don't want to judge him just because he is from a certain country, but at the same time his behaviour is very similar to that of the ones that do work for criminal organisations.

Thirdly, if I conclude that he is in fact a criminal, I am faced with another problem, perhaps he is there against his will, perhaps he is forced to beg by whoever runs the organisation and is in fact a victim. If this is the case, how to help?


Thank you for reading. My questions are:

What should I do? (not as important)
What would you do?
What would Jesus do?

I can't follow my consience because it is divided, therefore I need some advice or some fresh opinions in order to decide what to do. I already don't give the ones that come with their roses, but I give musicians because I figure, regardless of who they are, they are willing to do something for the money.

Sincerely.

[ded2daworld]

The fact is, is that some people that beg do so because they earn just as much or more than they would at a regular job. They feel that they are contributing to society by making people "feel better" about themselves.
Here in America, it's a sttistical fact that the average beggar takes in more than minimum wage, tax free, and may ALSO receive a housing subsidy, food stamps, unemployment, child subsidies, and welfare. Seperate from the begging, these benefits ALSO add up to more than minimum wage. And contrary to popular belief, if you need a doctor and have no money, emergency rooms are required to see to your needs BY LAW.

If God doesn't direct you to give money to a certain individual then don't. Jesus, nor none of the apostles donated money to the poor or pretend poor.
God directed me once to buy a sandwich for a guy begging for money outside a store. I gave the guy the sandwich and he said to me, "I need money, not food , you a******.. I said Best I can do for you since you'll spend the money on booze and cigarettes. (He was smoking and had the look of an alcoholic) As I walked toward my car he threw the sandwich at me and hit me in the back with it.
I did what I did for the Lord so it didn't bother me but a couple of people came over that saw the whole thing and said they couldn't believe it.
Most beggars will try to get you to like them, feel, for them, be grateful you're not one of them, etc. so that you'll give more money.

P.S. a "real" beggar does not have a cellphone and wear decent, clean clothes.

[JulieTang84]

I have learned: location, location location.


One cold morning a very sorry looking guy was sitting alone in the McDonalds I just entered. He looked at me, and I him. He had nothing on the table, not even a coffee cup. After sitting down with my meal, the gentlemen walked up and asked if I could perhaps give him something to eat. My heart melted. It was cold outside and this guy was hungry.


I told him to sit down and ordered the biggest breakfast they had for the guy. He was clearly thankful. When I left, I gave him $10 and wished him well.  He just asked for food.


Another time, with a different outcome. I pulled into a gas station and seen a guy standing near a car with the hood up, working on something. He approached me a little later with a sob story that he needed to be 100's of miles away to see his family but his car was broken and he needed cash to buy a part.


A few red flags this time, but people have surely helped me in times past, so I gave him some money and went on with my day.  All was well, until a week or so later at another location, the same guy approached me with the same story. .....Fool me once.....


Forsakemenot, we cannot know the intent of others, but we can listen to the small quiet voice deep inside us. When one is torn between doing something and not knowing what to do, they really do. Somewhere, deep inside a small voice is saying: "walk away" or "help" The mind, conscious or ego likely wants to rationalize and disagree and this is where confusion starts.


Listen to your inner most self and just do what it says, but do not question it. In time, this will become 2nd nature. I am certainly not saying that you wont ever get scammed, but at least you wont be 2nd guessing.


There are professional beggars everywhere. Standing at an intersection,  seems to me to be the last place to look for food or shelter.......


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

I purpose in my mind how much money I am going to give away.
No one has to meet any of  perceived category of needy.
When I feel led to give the money to a certain person. I do.

Some times that person will say don't give me the money I don't need it.
Then I explain that I am experimenting with giving and that they can give the money away to some one they think deserve it.

I have a very easy time saying no even to the most deserved cause or person.
When I smile and say no.
There usually is no hard feelings.   

[rosered]

   Hi Forsakemenot ,   and welcome  ,  the age old dilema/ test  on morality  !

  Much to consider  Ded  and Julie  :thumbsup:

Thank you for reading. My questions are:

What should I do? (not as important)
What would you do?
What would Jesus do?

  what should you do ?  nothing  right now thinking only makes it worse ,   for many of us , its trying not to "harden our hearts "   against   all beggars
  the poor you have with you always  , we do not always have Christ with us [present thoughts  of Spiritual  conscienceness ]  our flesh gets in the way with our own emotions  of how to handle   our  tests /trials  of moral  character .
 
trying to live with the right choices .
 
what would I do ? ,  every day  we see great need  continually  , on the streets, in the mail, on TV

the news   etc ..its overwhelming !!  are we better off  than they ?  I say NO  ,  things can and do change in a moment  ,  a house fire and death in the family   , funeral expenses  , travel  , tornados  ,   floods, eathquakes   ,   job loss    sickness   , cancer   , its an  never ending    small exsistance  of tragedy  and so hard to make any difference  at all , its never ends , someone is suffering somewhere  .
   we all desire to ease that suffering  as our small part to glorify God  , knowing only God is good
 
I remember a   saying , that helps me when I get bothered  by all this suffering ,
here it is   ..
  a young man was walking along the beach  and tossing starfishes back into the ocean  , because when the tides come up every night and  receed every day   they become trapped  on the  sand and the sun dries them out and die    , this young man  was tossing them  as many as he could pick up and toss   , and run across an old  fellow   , who asked "Why are you tossing  those starfish  back into the ocean   like that " ?   There are thousands  of  starfishes    on the beach  , what difference does it make to save a few ?

and the young man picked up a  starfish  and  tossed it back and said to the old fellow  , It made a differnce to this starfish  ! 
So you just never know what differnce you can make to someone who is suffering
and its a shame   that   some  folks decietfully   take advantage  of kindness  and goodness and ruin it for all those whom really do need   help  and ease from the burdens of this life .

WHAT did Jesus do to the beggar   Lazurus ?    only one example  here I will share

He  waited on the rich man to prove himself  , and that did not happen  , so when Lazurus died all those good things come to  him  and the rich man suffered
  I believe God uses us all to test one another   in many  ways we     are in the firey trials  here and now   , and there is a  couple of scriptures   that says    showing compassion making a difference    ,  plucking them from the fire   verse 20 and 21   JUDE
  and the  brand plucked from the fire   Joshua  in  Zech . 
I just think the  whole world is on fire now Because Jesus   said its true in Luke  12 :49

Just keep seeking and asking and  praying for His answers  , only He can give you His peace
  the world does not offer true peace   

[rosered]

I purpose in my mind how much money I am going to give away.
No one has to meet any of  perceived category of needy.
When I feel led to give the money to a certain person. I do.

Some times that person will say don't give me the money I don't need it.
Then I explain that I am experimenting with giving and that they can give the money away to some one they think deserve it.

I have a very easy time saying no even to the most deserved cause or person.
When I smile and say no.
There usually is no hard feelings.

  Hi Daj ,  you were wrting when I was also     

Thank you   :thumbsup:

[Forsakemenot]

Thank you all.

I am having a hard time with this because in the past I easily got bitter when people tricked me since I am quite sensitive like that. And now I have come to the point that I rather get scammed by 99 people and help 1 than risk walking past one single person who is truly in need.
And yes, it is the fear of involontarily becoming hardened inside.
But I guess I can say that I did my part on this one guy now, having given him something at least 2-3 times, seeing him still being there and every part of me saying that there is something fishy going on, I don't really have to worry about ignoring someone in need after all.

After all, when I go to the city I see people with ragged clothes, people struggling to make the day, and I have a chance to do something nice for them. I guess I am feeling bad because I can't do more, I would like to invite someone home but am afraid of what would happen after, I wouldn't handle having someone live with me forever, but I couldn't toss someone out in the cold either.

About the cellphone and decent clothes parts, it's not true here in Germany. There are places where the homeless can go and get new clothes, they can also get a shower etc. And it is hard with cell phones because anyone can buy a cheap cellphone if that is their priority, it is actually a great tip from a previously homeless person to prioritize a cell phone along with trying to get a post adress in case there is a chance of getting a job.
Of course, I had an entirely different feeling with this guy.
Somehow it is something you see in the eyes, the people who have had to struggle, it kind of shows in their eyes, something I can't quite explain. But he didn't have that look.

I guess if he asks me again I should just ask for his legitimation.

[Lazarus Short]

The Kansas City Star a few years back, ran a piece on the professional beggars.  Seem that one of them was taking in over $50,000 per year, and owned a house.  I've been taken in by the rest stop and broken-down car scam too - once you give the woman the money, the husband comes out of the woodwork, and they're on their way in their "broken-down" car.  Ah, well, it still counts for good works, but you still kick yourself for being taken in.  There are no easy answers in such situations, but be cautious and perceptive.  The best thing you may be able to do is to look beyond their expressed needs to something deeper - I think that is what Jesus would do.

[JulieTang84]

I remember a   saying , that helps me when I get bothered  by all this suffering ,
here it is   ..
  a young man was walking along the beach  and tossing starfishes back into the ocean  , because when the tides come up every night and  receed every day   they become trapped  on the  sand and the sun dries them out and die    , this young man  was tossing them  as many as he could pick up and toss   , and run across an old  fellow   , who asked "Why are you tossing  those starfish  back into the ocean   like that " ?   There are thousands  of  starfishes    on the beach  , what difference does it make to save a few ?

and the young man picked up a  starfish  and  tossed it back and said to the old fellow  , It made a differnce to this starfish  ! 

Thank you RoseRed  :HeartThrob:

I love that story!!!!! You are so right. How precious is just one act of kindness, even if it seems but a drop of water in an ocean, It's so easy to look at a problem and just be overwhelmed at the scope of it, but let us never forget; it's how we all started our journey home to Father. With the first step. It might not look that we have travelled far on the outside, but from where we were to where we are spiritually now, insurmountable. At least for me.  :cloud9:

Love Julie :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

I remember a   saying , that helps me when I get bothered  by all this suffering ,
here it is   ..
  a young man was walking along the beach  and tossing starfishes back into the ocean  , because when the tides come up every night and  receed every day   they become trapped  on the  sand and the sun dries them out and die    , this young man  was tossing them  as many as he could pick up and toss   , and run across an old  fellow   , who asked "Why are you tossing  those starfish  back into the ocean   like that " ?   There are thousands  of  starfishes    on the beach  , what difference does it make to save a few ?

and the young man picked up a  starfish  and  tossed it back and said to the old fellow  , It made a differnce to this starfish  ! 

Thank you RoseRed  :HeartThrob:

I love that story!!!!! You are so right. How precious is just one act of kindness, even if it seems but a drop of water in an ocean, It's so easy to look at a problem and just be overwhelmed at the scope of it, but let us never forget; it's how we all started our journey home to Father. With the first step. It might not look that we have travelled far on the outside, but from where we were to where we are spiritually now, insurmountable. At least for me.  :cloud9:

Love Julie :HeartThrob:

The giving is for the giver.

Taking your star fish analogy;

Let say in the spiritual unseen and yet to come world.
There is something that you  can do to  prepare your self

It was the motion of picking up the star fish and throwing them in the water.
This motion the motion of picking up the star fish and throwing them back into the water.
Was the most powerful and most prized motion.
Those whom had practiced it ,where the most prepared for all of eternity.

Because we all know there are no star fish in eternity.

The motion was so important that you got the same results ;
whether the star fish were real or fake .

[sheila]

Proverbs 23;6  do not eat the food of a stingy man,do not crave his delicasy's.

for he is the kind of man who is always thinking of the cost.

  eat and drink he says to you..but his heart is not with you,you will vomit up the little

you have eaten and you will have wasted your compliments.

     the poor ye have with ye always...and ye may give gifts to them anytime ye want.....

     do not give begrudgingly!!!!! Deut 15;8-11...you will always have the poor with you

  if love,mercy is not in your heart..prompting you...

  a gift is an undeserved thing....!...

   Mt ch 6   Giving to the needy...be careful not to do your 'acts' of righteousness before men.

  so..giving to the needy is an 'act of righteousness'....  if seen by men....you will have no reward

from your Father of it.....give in secret

        Peter said 'silver and gold I do not possess....Acts 3;6...but what I have I give you..."..

  in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,walk"....all  should be done for the praise of God.

   the poor that receives the gift..to praise and thank God for the help.  The giver who gives it

as a praise to God.

  make freinds for yourself with unrighteus mammon..that when these fail..you may be warmly

received.........  if ye have not handled unrighteous mamon rightly[by giving from

stingy/begrudginging heart/resentful  who will give ye the true treasures[of the spirit..and the

spirit gifts to be given unto your fellow man unbegrudgingly..like forgiveness of sin/debt tresspass]

    if ye begrudge cancelling a debt a man owes you..that he can not repay....coz ye judged

him unworthy..due to folly/his own fault...ye will be likwise with the true treasures..the free gift of

eternal life and the forgiveness of his sins...ye will be wanting justice and not mercy under the law

....ye will not be of generous spirit...freely forgiving.  ye must be like your Father in heaven...

  God is good..even unto the wicked.......

     if ye give..do it for the Glory of God..if ye receive..receive it as unto the glory of God.....

    do all things as unto God.......if ye can not give financially..offer up petitions to God in their behalf

      God does not expect you to give what you do not have. If your heart lacks generousity..He

does not expect you to give it[and it would not be a Glory unto God to put you under compulsion

over it] If your heart is devoid of mercy in a particular instance..He does not expect ye to give it

[and it would not be a Glory to God to put you under compulsion to extend it]

      YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE POOR WITH YOU....ANYTIME YOU WANT>>>>>>>>

.....2 Cor 9;7   each man  should give what he has decided in his heart to give,not reluctantly

or under compulsion,for God loves a cheerful giver..............................you will be made rich

in every way,so that you may be genrus on every occasion,and through us........

YOUR GENEROSITY WILL RESULT IN THANKSGIVING TO GOD!!!!!!!!

  look...this service you perform is not only supplying the needs of God's people

BUT IS ALSO OVERFLOWING IN MANY EXPRESSIONS OF THANKS TO GOD!!!!!!!!


   as far as the 'other side of the coin' I am not denying that there are many who seek to take

advantage of generous hearts full of mercy ...these truly are defrauding the poor...and turn

the Father's house[prayer] into a den of robbers and theives...making merchandise of the

worship of God.

     

[T-Bone]

I HAVE NOT MUCH TO ADD TO WHAT SHEILA HAS ALREADY LISTED ABOVE AS WELL AS THE OTHER POSTS EXCEPT THAT WE ARE TO HELP THE "LEAST OF THESE" AND IN SO DOING WE "DO IT AS UNTO THE LORD".

I'D VENTURE TO SAY THAT 95% OF ALL BEGGARS( "LEAST OF THESE") ARE LEGITIMATE AND IT'S NOT UP TO ME TO TRY TO DETERMINE THAT UNLESS , OF COURSE, THEY ARE WEARING A SUIT  AND TIE WHILE DOING IT WHICH WOULD CLEARLY MAKE THEM SUSPECT.

BTW: THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT GOD LOVES A GENEROUS GIVER, THE WORD "GENEROUS" IN THE ORIGINAL ALSO MEANS "HILARIOUS".

[rosered]

I remember a   saying , that helps me when I get bothered  by all this suffering ,
here it is   ..
  a young man was walking along the beach  and tossing starfishes back into the ocean  , because when the tides come up every night and  receed every day   they become trapped  on the  sand and the sun dries them out and die    , this young man  was tossing them  as many as he could pick up and toss   , and run across an old  fellow   , who asked "Why are you tossing  those starfish  back into the ocean   like that " ?   There are thousands  of  starfishes    on the beach  , what difference does it make to save a few ?

and the young man picked up a  starfish  and  tossed it back and said to the old fellow  , It made a differnce to this starfish  ! 

Thank you RoseRed  :HeartThrob:

I love that story!!!!! You are so right. How precious is just one act of kindness, even if it seems but a drop of water in an ocean, It's so easy to look at a problem and just be overwhelmed at the scope of it, but let us never forget; it's how we all started our journey home to Father. With the first step. It might not look that we have travelled far on the outside, but from where we were to where we are spiritually now, insurmountable. At least for me.  :cloud9:

Love Julie :HeartThrob:

Hi Julie  , Glad this blessed you as it has me  , making it worth posting  :gimmefive:

  Just now able to be on the Tent ,  so busy with    our 3 month old grandson  ,  and the joy of him 

[rosered]

  Blessings Daj  , it matters to God  :thumbsup:
Forsakemenot  ,  you right its  discerning   the spirits  in man   to me .  and yes the eyes  are the windows of the soul  , you can see into them .
  and Great points Shelia   :iagree:
and T -bone

   This has been a  great thread so far  and good question Forsakemenot

  :friendstu:

[dajomaco]

The motion was so important that you got the same results ;
whether the star fish were real or fake .


Blessings Daj  , it matters to God   

I heard a story of Hosea Garcia
The first time he had won a major championship.
He won a lot of money.

A women had told him that she had a sick baby that may die soon,
without medical treatment that she could not afford.
He had given a large sum of money to her.

A reporter having witnessed this, investigated the women and found out that she was a fraud. 
The reporter thinking he would embarrass Garcia.
Waited until a national broad cast press conference.

He said 'Mr. Garcia the woman you gave the money to was a fraud ,what to think of her."

Mr. Garcia looked at him and said" you mean there is no baby just about to die".
The reporter replied" no".
Mr. Garcia replied that "this news makes  me happier than winning the tournament.

Giving is for the Giver.

[rosered]

The motion was so important that you got the same results ;
whether the star fish were real or fake .


Blessings Daj  , it matters to God   

I heard a story of Hosea Garcia
The first time he had won a major championship.
He won a lot of money.

A women had told him that she had a sick baby that may die soon,
without medical treatment that she could not afford.
He had given a large sum of money to her.

A reporter having witnessed this, investigated the women and found out that she was a fraud. 
The reporter thinking he would embarrass Garcia.
Waited until a national broad cast press conference.

He said 'Mr. Garcia the woman you gave the money to was a fraud ,what to think of her."

Mr. Garcia looked at him and said" you mean there is no baby just about to die".
The reporter replied" no".
Mr. Garcia replied that "this news makes  me happier than winning the tournament.

Giving is for the Giver.

Totally understand what your saying Daj ,

God does bless  the cheerful giver  ,  those that decieve have their reward also 

  My poor widowed  grammy used to give to a  television evangelist   on a regular basis   
she lived a megar   and humble life  , but wanted to  give at there  asking  for money 
she obliged them  , they  both   have their reward   according to their works

God is judge and judges righteously  , no doubt about that  :thumbsup:

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be

Mat 6:1 Take heed that you do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Mat 6:2 Therefore whenyou do your  alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.