Bill O'Reilly Says Kill The Innocent As Long As You Get The Terrorists

[Seth]

Watchman1706, I can assure again that my feelings were not hurt. The reason I keep pressing that point is so that people don't think that I am fragile and that they cannot disagree with me without hurting my feelings. People can disagree with me without having to feel that my disagreements come from hurt feelings. So I just want to get that out of the way.

As to the OP's original intent, I cannot say. It was obviously something that interested him. But it led to a bigger discussion and I am glad for it. I feel that if you don't like the original post or subsequent discussion, you are under no obligation to participate.  :dunno2:

[JulieTang84]

Watchman1706, I can assure again that my feelings were not hurt. The reason I keep pressing that point is so that people don't think that I am fragile and that they cannot disagree with me without hurting my feelings. People can disagree with me without having to feel that my disagreements come from hurt feelings. So I just want to get that out of the way.

As to the OP's original intent, I cannot say. It was obviously something that interested him. But it led to a bigger discussion and I am glad for it. I feel that if you don't like the original post or subsequent discussion, you are under no obligation to participate.  :dunno2:

:friendstu:  Well said Seth. I truly thought I hurt your feelings. My mistake, for it surely was not my intent. Please know that you did not hurt my feelings either. I too am glad for the bigger discussion and certainly how it ended. No hurt feelings and lots of respect. That is always a good thing.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Just who or what does bill o'rielly have to do with anything that happens in the world of men and women who believe in Jesus Christ the Savior of the world? I wonder.....bill o'rielly does what he does for money and recognition, and he is in that position to upset your world with news media. Television, in and of itself will never help a person who believes in Jesus Christ, it is an incendiary to FAITH. Yes I watch TV and at times o'rielly, I am weak, I am by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, weaning off the piranha of TV, politics, and worldly silliness.
Who really cares what o'rielly says? Wake up. Where is YOUR citizenship?
Php 3:20  For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--

[Seth]

:friendstu:  Well said Seth. I truly thought I hurt your feelings. My mistake, for it surely was not my intent. Please know that you did not hurt my feelings either. I too am glad for the bigger discussion and certainly how it ended. No hurt feelings and lots of respect. That is always a good thing.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

:thumbsup:

[T-Bone]

SETH/JULIE:

I LOVE WHAT YOU BOTH SAY SCRIPTURALLY BUT IT SADDENS ME THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE A CONTENTIOUSNESS IN YOUR , ALBEIT , RESTRAINED RESPONSES. MAYBE YOU THINK THIS IS NECESSARY TO GET EACH OF YOU TO REFLECT ON THE OTHERS POINTS OF VIEW BUT I HAVE TO WONDER ABOUT THAT.
I SUSPECT THAT NEITHER OF YOU ARE ALWAYS LISTENING THE EACH OTHER WHEN YOU DO RESPOND BUT RATHER WANT TO PERSIST IN YOU VIEW POINTS TO WHERE NOTHING SEEMS TO GET RESOLVED .
THE CONVERSATION TENDS TO BECOME QUITE CIRCULAR IN MY OPINION TO WHERE THERE IS NO CLOSURE BETWEEN YOU (I.E. THERE IS RARELY AGREEMENT BUT SINCE I HAVEN'T BEEN ON THIS SITE AS LONG AS MANY OF YOU , MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN, I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN IT) .
I HOPE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT.

ANOTHER GOOD THREAD WOULD BE TO STUDY HOW JESUS HANDLED BICKERING AND DISPUTE AMONG HIS 12 DISCIPLES.

[Seth]

Disagreements happen...I don't think I was bickering, but that's just me. Peace

[T-Bone]

AND PEACE TO YOU, TOO, MY FRIEND.

[jabcat]

THE CONVERSATION TENDS TO BECOME QUITE CIRCULAR IN MY OPINION TO WHERE THERE IS NO CLOSURE BETWEEN YOU (I.E. THERE IS RARELY AGREEMENT BUT SINCE I HAVEN'T BEEN ON THIS SITE AS LONG AS MANY OF YOU , MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN, I JUST HAVEN'T SEEN IT) .
I HOPE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT.

Sometimes there's actual agreement around here  :laugh:. 

Often it's various people stating various understandings, with hardly ever a "ah, I get it, you're right..wow! thanks for that, I was so wrong!"   :footmouth:

I HAVE seen subtle changes over time though, but it may be over a year or two - where you can tell something has definitely "rubbed off" on someone - including me.  And you can realize in self or see in others, change/agreement has occurred.  It's usually just not an obvious "aha!" moment.

One of the neatest examples;  we had a long time member here, who wasn't a believer in the reconciliation/salvation of all.   One day, after about 3 years, I saw them say something like  "it's the ages!  God's working through the ages!  I get it!!!".    Pretty neat.   :dsunny:

[JulieTang84]

Just to add my two cents.

I try to be as patient and as loving as I can always. I have read what Seth has to say and how he says many times; he shows great patience and wisdom. Sure, there are times when things do not seem to reach reconciliation, seems to me we came pretty close this time round. There was just one or two things seen/understood a little differently.

I do NOT believe that it is mandatory for everyone to see or believe as I, frankly it just isn't possible, One would think a religion, with one God, one Savior and one Holy Book, that EVERYONE would be on the same page. Why aren't they?

Well it could be because of the following:

I Cor. 12:12-30
"But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other... Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues"

On the surface, this might not appear to be a big deal, but it is quite obvious that ALL of the "members of the body" must be fully capable of working with the rest of the body. Perhaps Father wants much more than a superficial cohesion, but a cohesion of body parts that have been truly tried and tested.

Rom 12:6
We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. .......

So what matters most? That we all agree on everything, or that we remain true to the gift / truth that has been given each of us?

Well, unless we can do the following, I would say neither.

Rom 12:10
Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.

Just my thoughts

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

 

[rosered]

  good thoughts all  :thumbsup:   

   Having learned over the years  and willing to share this  with anyone who   this might help also
  That emotions  [soul /seat of emotions]  have never solved  issues  , they actually seem to get in the way  , its reason that   works ! 
Even the scriptures  speak of   ''Come let us  reason together ''

  Knowing that many times  when the scriptures are shared with someones  understanding of them has helped me  greatly and persuades  a repentance /change of mind towards    just what  pleases the Lord    with better understanding  and the counsel of His will

  Knowing God  Our Father though the Lord Jesus Christ is the  greatest joy of salvation  we can be blessed with   , in my own  opinion  and that in UR everyone will be saved  in Gods  wonderful plan of the ages !!


Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 

Strong's H3198 - yakach
to prove, decide, judge, rebuke, reprove, correct, be right
(Hiphil)
to decide, judge
to adjudge, appoint
to show to be right, prove
to convince, convict
to reprove, chide
to correct, rebuke
(Hophal) to be chastened
(Niphal) to reason, reason together
(Hithp) to argue

Its always interesting to learn    new things  of the Holy Spirit   and grow in truth and grace 

[jabcat]

REALLY good post rose.   :angelharp:

[T-Bone]

SO THIS COMES TO MIND.

IF "YAKACH" MEANS NOT ONLY TO REASON WITH BUT TO ALSO REBUKE, THEN WHAT DOES THE BIBLE MEAN WHEN IT SAYS " YOU ARE NOT TO REBUKE( CORRECT, REPROVE,REASON WITH ) A FOOL" AND SINCE JESUS REBUKED(CORRECTED, REPROVED, REASONED WITH )  THE PHARISEES MORE THAN ONCE , HE WAS REBUKING A FOOL  ( IN THIS CASE, THE PHARISEES) .
CORRECT?

THE PHARISEES WERE DEVOUT RELIGIOUS FANATICS WHO STRONGLY BELIEVED IN JUDAISM ( AND THE RESURRECTION ,ALSO BTW , AS WE DO.)
HOW DOES THAT MAKE THEM "FOOLS" AND NOT WE WHO ARE DEVOUT CHRISTIANS WHO STRONGLY BELIEVE IN UR.
COULD THIS POSSIBLY BE A CASE OF "THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK"? OR ANOTHER WAY TO ASK THIS QUESTION IS TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT A "FOOL" IS FOR WE ARE NEVER TO CALL A MAN A "FOOL" ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES.

[Seth]

Proverbs 26
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Seems like a contradiction. Don't answer a fool according to his folly but DO answer a fool according to his folly. I think the resolution has to do with the intention. Verse 4  shows the net result: being like the fool. And verse 5 shows another intent: that he will not be wise in his own conceit.

In other words, however you proceed, do not be LIKE the fool. If you are not LIKE the fool, answer him according to his folly, to show the foolishness in his own conceits.

[rosered]

  Great question T BONE !!

  and like Seths answer 

   But also we could  consider   the Lord  , when He rebukes us and chastens us and scourges us !

For God uses  vessels of honor and dishoner to  do this  in my opinion

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 
Hbr 12:3 ¶ For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 


Hbr 12:4   [b]Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.[/b]  


Hbr 12:5   And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 
Hbr 12:6   For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 
Hbr 12:7   If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 


Hbr 12:8   But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 

  I was going to put up a post about the    Body of Moses[Being the Law  and ministration of death ]      and Michael    contended with   the devil  , did not rebuke   him , but said the LORD REBUKE YOU 

For me the Lords rebuke is the only way  anyone  can  back off or change our minds /repent
  Its not somthing many are called to do   in my opinion ,    but see this as   the Body of Moses [ the LAW ]     was !!!           the  ministration     Was  to point to sin and death  as the result , repent for the kingdom of God is at hand [in power]   
 
We can see this clearly when John the Baptist [ in the Spirit of Elijah ]   the  prophecy    representing the LAW and Prophets       came  as the precurser    to  the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ .  when Jesus was baptised in the Jordan river .

For my  faith I do believe that is what the Devil was trying to accuse  to God those children[in the body of Moses the Law ]    day and night  , before he was cast down to the earth  from Heaven
  Jesus is the  first man child   to represent     fulfilling the Law  in His Body  , beinging in many sons into Glory and the presence of God !   

[Seth]

I was going to put up a post about the    Body of Moses[Being the Law  and ministration of death ]      and Michael    contended with   the devil  , did not rebuke   him , but said the LORD REBUKE YOU 

I'd love to know your thoughts on it.

 

For me the Lords rebuke is the only way  anyone  can  back off or change our minds /repent
  Its not somthing many are called to do   in my opinion ,    but see this as   the Body of Moses [ the LAW ]     was !!!           the  ministration     Was  to point to sin and death  as the result , repent for the kingdom of God is at hand [in power]   

I think this is why ETers get angry when you quote scripture to them to show them their error. The Lord is rebuking them through the scripture.

[T-Bone]

SETH/ROSERED:

THANKS FOR SHEDDING SOME LIGHT ON THIS MATTER.

ALL GOOD POINTS AND I WILL CONSIDER THEM CLOSELY.

[JulieTang84]

For me the Lords rebuke is the only way  anyone  can  back off or change our minds /repent
  Its not somthing many are called to do   in my opinion ,    but see this as   the Body of Moses [ the LAW ]     was !!!           the  ministration     Was  to point to sin and death  as the result , repent for the kingdom of God is at hand [in power]   

I think this is why ETers get angry when you quote scripture to them to show them their error. The Lord is rebuking them through the scripture.

This is something that Father has revealed to me many times. The paradigm has changed, the message is the same, but the understanding: not so much.

Before Spirit came (as Jesus promised) The Law was the baseline, and many stuck to it and nothing else. Many have not heeded the Spirit and stick to it still. The Spirit unveils LOVE  :HeartThrob: whereas the Law was backed by FEAR. I am not in anyway saying the LAW was the benchmark of FEAR, because David in his 23rd Psalm totally "Got it!" Never the less, Father ruled through Fear in the OT and was quite ruthless. There was very good reason to FEAR HIM.

All of this is important, because back then there was not the Spirit to garner discernment. This was very hard-core, "Do what I say or ELSE." Many, many churches use FEAR even today, and a multitude of people buy into the Fear and grasp hold of whatever belief they can (TOTALLY IGNORING LOVE) and just run with it, blindly; they being in effect no different than the peoples of old.

This is sad, because even in the days of the LAW, Father's true nature could be clearly seen and understood, one just had to simply look outside the Box. The undertone of all the prophets and OT writers speak of Fathers Love, but we MUST remember, the peoples that were being written, needed to be ruled by an iron fist. They respect FEAR, and sadly many still do today at the cost of LOVE.

This is why the ET'ers get extremely angry when Scripture is quoted that contradicts their own interpretation. They say we are twisting the truth, when in fact it is themselves through FEAR of their LIVES cannot even consider a different perspective.  They have not the eyes and heart of LOVE. Yet it is more than this. They do not have the LOVE for Father enough to let go of all they understand. Something they were told to do in the days of LAW.

Spirit filled children of Father, fully understand the full SIGNIFICANCE of Jesus's hand full of words.

He said that he came to FULFILL the Scriptures; all were completed in HIM. The importance of this is self explanatory, for if one needs to understand what the LAW really meant, they need look no further than to Jesus. Looking anywhere else is pretty much a waste of time. SHOCKING! I guess, but true, for now with Spirit filled eyes and hearts, we CANNOT hope to gain the understanding that was originally intended, for we cannot step out of our loved filled hearts and take on a heart of FEAR.

Jesus just gave two commandments: Love Father with all that we are and LOVE EVERYONE ELSE with the same LOVE we have for ourselves.

If we CANNOT LOVE ourselves TRULY and be THANKFUL!!!!!!!!!!! for the small amount of Spirit we have; if we do NOT feel the INCREDIBLY SPECIAL as one of FATHERS CHILDREN, then we do not love ourselves as much as we should. We cannot love our neighbor as much as we should and we CANNOT LOVE FATHER.

The ET'ers totally do not see this or are even willing to comprehend it. Love is not part of their faith; a faith that is ruled by Sin and Fear. They believe in a god that is incapable of love and their love is but a reflection of their faith.

This is the SECRET, it doesn't matter!!!!!! It is not about them, but only about each of us. How is that we shine in a world of darkness? We are to be the Light's on the Hill. It is us who are through LOVE and LIGHT that will change the world, which is what Jesus was sent to start.

Julie stepping off of here soapbox.........sorry :cloud9:

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[rosered]

 

  That was a great post Julie ,
  I agree with  you its the difference between   saving them   with fear  [being servants  of God ]and  salvation   in perfect /complete Love  , could only be done with the   union of  The Father and the Son   relationship 
I can see this found as acceptable  in Jude  , being the Letter of the Law [written word ]  on the tables hearts of stone  ,    the warning was always  harden not your hearts

  but the Spoken Word  [ Spoken by Jesus Christ   the testimony  of Jesus Christ being '' the SPIRIT  of Prophecy'' ]   would  change the hearts  to flesh , His flesh , being the pure  and holy

   that to me is why Pauls said I would that you all prophesied  , having the SPIRIT OF CHRIST and the Spirit of God  in them   Father and Son perfect bond of Love , same Witness     thus  creating the Living WORD   within our  vessels for His use  and purpose .  until they  recieved   the Holy SPIRIT [both Father and Son  after the Cross ] for forgiveness of sins

they were just being prepared to  recieve Christ/ that annointing  of both   the Holy Spirit /ghost .  the turors that lead to Jesus Christ .   the baptism of John the Baptist    being cleaned out to recive    the Lord and presence of God to dwell in us

    Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 
Jhn 20:22   And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 
Jhn 20:23   Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. 

forgiven or  held in judgment  till they change     , this Living Word is powerful of itself !


  In my opinion the difference yet both helpful   ,   in saving    the Holy Spirit remits sin or retains

Keep Yourselves in the Love of God


17 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ,

18 that they were saying to you, "In the last time there will be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts."

19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit.

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting; 23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.


24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
   Its just awesome to me to be able to  talk about these things  and there is   union with other believers  whom are given the same  ,  , many years ago I had no clue   to how the Lord was going to save all mankind and  , yet I knew he would do His perfect work  as promised   and am just now after all these years  understanding a little more  all the time , its exciting    for me whom has given up on the world and its desires   to put all my hope and trust in Him  .  What an awesome God !!     hope springs eternal      from His Living waters /Word of Life    :girlheart:

[rosered]

SETH/ROSERED:

THANKS FOR SHEDDING SOME LIGHT ON THIS MATTER.

ALL GOOD POINTS AND I WILL CONSIDER THEM CLOSELY.

God bless you T-Bone      , all we can do is be thankful for Gods awesome mercy and grace  given to us at this time   :thumbsup:  I thank Him for helping us as  we all help each other and we can   reason together with  His Spirit is our LIGHT  SHINING  within our dark places !!
  All  here desire More of HIM  in our lives  :girlheart:

[JulieTang84]

  Its just awesome to me to be able to  talk about these things  and there is   union with other believers  whom are given the same  ,  , many years ago I had no clue   to how the Lord was going to save all mankind and  , yet I knew he would do His perfect work  as promised   and am just now after all these years  understanding a little more  all the time , its exciting    for me whom has given up on the world and its desires   to put all my hope and trust in Him  .  What an awesome God !!     hope springs eternal      from His Living waters /Word of Life    :girlheart: 

Thanks RoseRed  :girlheart:  It is indeed awesome to be able to share ones heart with like minded believers. Iron sharpens iron and I believe we are all better because of the discourse. I feel I have a slightly different view of SIN than most on this forum. To the ER'ers, sin is the mainstay, they build themselves on the basis of how they admit how SINFUL they are. The more unworthy they can make themselves feel, the more justified they are at looking down on all else, resulting in the more self righteous they feel. Sounds fair, but lacking LOVE.I see myself to Father as I was to my earthly father as a 3 yr old. Willing to please, but a very short attention span resulting in my heart and mind being all over the place. I was too busy enjoying life, living and learning, but mostly having fun. I did not have a care in the world. What was sin?It cannot be any different today. Whilst ever anyone lives in fear of "messing" up, Love has been shelved and forgotten. There is a paradox regarding SIN. The more one thinks, ponders, worries, etc. THE GREATER it becomes. Sin becomes so much more than a misstep or lack in judgment, something as a 3 yr old I had PLENTY of. Our Loving Spirit Father knows we are but walking and know so little; he expects us to mess up. It's a given. Now, I am talking here of only those whom have been blessed with the Spirit of Truth. Paul said that we are dead to sin, which means sin is dead to us. We need worry no more about messing up, making mistakes, thinking bad thoughts, because whilst ever we give more concern to that part of our learning, fear becomes our mantra instead of love.So realizing we are but infants first and foremost, that we are to LOVE and TRUST Father in everything,; we can relax and be open to EVERYTHING that comes our way. If we are LISTENING, we know that something is wrong long before it becomes a sin. Listening, is a problem like it is for any three yr old. We will choose not to listen at times and yes do something we might should not have. This is all about growing in Love and Spirit. Hearing Father comes easy with time. Not because we are TRYING out of FEAR, but LOVE clears the way, the way it has always done.What happens when one hears Father and ignores Him. Oh MY GOSH!!!!  Just like most 3 yr olds, they will plead ignorance, throw a tantrum, or give a heart wrenching look that just melts the hardest of hearts. This is all a part of Growing Up and does not last forever. Our Loving Father knows all of this, He is patient and He is loving. If only we could love Him as He loves us......Sin is not our stumbling block, Jesus took care of that. Rather it it is unwillingness to LET GO of EVERYTHING except Fathers Hand. With LOVE there is nothing to FEAR.Gosh I am wordy todayLove Julie  :cloud9: 

[Seth]

Here are my thoughts on sin, and some of which my differ and some might parallel with what you said above.

As an ETer, I grew up thinking that sin was simply that which angered God. I still had a view of God's anger as being like my own anger, which is filtered through the flesh. So, ET teaches us that sin angers a holy God and salvation is being covered and hid away from the anger by Jesus.

I even carried some of those notions into UR with me, until I realized more and more what sin is really about and why salvation is necessary. My shift in thinking came by realizing that salvation is not a matter of escaping an angry God, but escaping that which is BAD for us.

Sin begins in the heart, not the actions. Sin brings pleasure to the flesh, but underneath all that is a soul that needs help. What seems like fun, is not fun at all. People out there are stuck in spiritual situations that are bad for them, and that are causing ruin in their lives.

You can see this ruin fictionalized on television and film these days. See the ruin it brings people's lives to be caught up in drugs and prostitution and pornography. The salvation message is not simply to stay there and feel safe, but to GET OUT of  way of that which harms you.

This is the Apostle message all the way through and it is a message of Love because Love does not ignore those who are sick, but provides a way to be made well. That is why the Holy Spirit is given to man, to guide them in the ways of Christ and to save us from this untoward generation that we may not participate in the darkness any longer.

[JulieTang84]

Here are my thoughts on sin, and some of which my differ and some might parallel with what you said above.

This is the Apostle message all the way through and it is a message of Love because Love does not ignore those who are sick, but provides a way to be made well. That is why the Holy Spirit is given to man, to guide them in the ways of Christ and to save us from this untoward generation that we may not participate in the darkness any longer.

Would you believe that I have NO disagreement with anything you wrote Seth.  :friendstu:


You absolutely encapsulated all I said or wanted to say in one sentence. It has nothing to do with how hard we try, or how hard we beat ourselves up for the mistakes we are going to make. It never was, because all that is required is being open and willing to be lead by the Spirit. We must alway have a Spiritual hand outreached for Father.


Father will not take us by the hand until we are willing to take His and not let go. This is where real LIVING begins in the Light  :dsunny:  of Love  :HeartThrob:


Much Love, Julie

[Seth]

Yes, his yoke is not heavy but LIGHT because he loves us  :dsunny: