spirit of man

[greenef]

Hi All;
In Ecc 12:7 at death the body is said to return to the Earth and man's spirit returns to God who gave it. What happens to the spirit after this? And could it be in heaven as some people think? Could this be the spirit that we will get at the resurrection?
Thanks, Frank.

[Tom]

The word "spirit" from the Greek "pneuma," literally "blow-effect," by implication is the imperceptible, intangible power of action, life and intelligence.

See the attachment.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[JulieTang84]

Hi All;
In Ecc 12:7 at death the body is said to return to the Earth and man's spirit returns to God who gave it. What happens to the spirit after this? And could it be in heaven as some people think? Could this be the spirit that we will get at the resurrection?
Thanks, Frank.

Frank, thanks for a very insightful question. One that get's shushed and swept aside all to often.

Yet, there is much that we know that gives credence to your questions. First, we know that humans were created in the Image of our Heavenly Father. We know this as fact BEFORE we even came into existence. So, here we have two options.

1. God is essentially human
2. Man is essentially spirit

Of course the former cannot be true, whilst the second option is most probably true. Hardly a person alive believes that they are there body, brain, mind. Consciousness, what is it? What of our higher self? Are these spirit? Are these everlasting?

Not a strange or insane question. Because if we are spirit, in the image of Father, out of Father through His Spiritual Son, then spirit cannot die. It is as much as part of Father that if these spirits died, then part of Father dies also, yet Father changes not.

All these are perfectly sane questions, because we KNOW we are in the Image of Father and Father is not HUMAN. Father is Spirit, Father is Love and Father is Truth, none of which can ever die, fade or become irrelevant. To ignore all of this is to believe that Father can change, which is a fallacy.

Please know that I am not saying any of this is so, but to pretend that these questions with what we KNOW do absolutely give cause to question some commonly held (traditional) beliefs. Also all that I have stated can be proved by dozens of Scriptures.

Fathers ways are higher than our understanding, we should never forget this.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[greenef]

Thanks, Tom and Julie. Your response were very helpful, until next time may God bless you!

Frank

[sheila]

 God himselffinishes their trainingwhenthey rise...thus wehave......

the spirits of just men made perfect.thisexercizeingood/evil downhere..isjust the first

  part ofour 'matriculation/training"

[rosered]

Hi All;
In Ecc 12:7 at death the body is said to return to the Earth and man's spirit returns to God who gave it. What happens to the spirit after this? And could it be in heaven as some people think? Could this be the spirit that we will get at the resurrection?
Thanks, Frank.

Great question Frank
 
some really helpful answers from  our brothers and sisters

Do we get   to keep our old spirit /"pneuma," literally "blow-effect," by implication is the imperceptible, intangible power of action, life and intelligence. ?

or our we given   the SPIRIT OF GOD and  Jesus Christ   ,joined in union  as a new Spirit the HOLY ONE   Tthat confesses Jesus Christ  , this LOVE cannot be Broken ever ,  and its a newness of life we never have known before ,  to me .

For me   everyone is given a spirit  in them   But is this  the  Spirit of God in them ?,  but not all have the Spirit of Christ /annoited  in them    there is a spirit of error / sin and its of the world NOT OF GOD to me  anyways .
  by this scriptures  and others we know   there is an anti Christ spirit in operation and its of the world ....
 
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.  

I must say when I read the Old testament  and what Solomon was given   this wisdom   is Not the same wisdom   of Jesus Christ , Jesus exceeds  and has far more Wisdom  of all things of heaven and earth and below  ,  Jesus states a greater than Solmon is here  !


  that was my biggest clue to Listen to Jesus VOICE   even over Solomon , because the time of Jesus Christ was the Time God chose the reveal and make known   the secrets  kept from the ages till  His coming in the flesh and now His SPIRIT  AND LIFE to our flesh   , Jesus IS
The Way Truth and the Life to us and resurrection
 
see Solomon was only given  limited  wisdom over all the kings of the earth only ...

   the things of this world  and those things that pertain to This earthly life 

Jesus  has all  the answers  and you must obtain the SPIRIT OF GOD and Jesus Christ to know the fulness  of Gods plan , that is why UR   has been the only  source of  study to me that has even advanced to the greater depthsand heights  of God  though Jesus Christ   as the learning over many ,many years has  helped me to learn of God  and can confess  Jesus Christ has come to my own flesh  and has raised me up  into new LIFE WITH HIS FATHER , my Father   , your Father ! and is the Father of many BORN AGAIN   believers

  Hope this helps a little , wish I could write more clearly  , Its hard for me to put into words what the SPIRIT  and Life in Christ means to me personally
GOD BLESS YOU richly as you come to Him   and Share the Light and knowledge of the gospel   , its is good news  and only good news   from here on out !!     :dsunny:

  here is the very scriptures that helped me to see  JESUS as  the one to hear and believe  , more so than Ecc  12 ;7   Jesus IS THE RESSURECTION AND THE LIFE  for us now to obtain  and cherish  as a valuable treasure in our hearts  to keep  , its the Christ in you thats the glory to Our Father .

2Ch 9:22 And king Solomon passed all the kings of the earth in riches and wisdom.
2Ch 9:23 And all the kings of the earth sought the presence of Solomon, to hear his wisdom, that God had put in his heart.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation,


and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

[Lazarus Short]

Hi All;
In Ecc 12:7 at death the body is said to return to the Earth and man's spirit returns to God who gave it. What happens to the spirit after this? And could it be in heaven as some people think? Could this be the spirit that we will get at the resurrection?
Thanks, Frank.

Frank - it is all a bit mysterious  :Chinscratch: but our Creator God gives us some hints, as He describes how He made man.  God made a body out of the dust of the earth, and breathed into it the breath of Life (or Spirit).  This conjunction of the Divine with the Earthly produces a Living Soul, and kickstarts a process which has produced billions of humans, all of whom are destined (in the fullness of time) to become Sons and Daughters of the Living God.  We stand on the shore of an Ocean of Eternity, and in this life, our toes are barely wet.  Welcome to wet!  :gimmefive: :friendstu:

[marie glen]

Hi All;
In Ecc 12:7 at death the body is said to return to the Earth and man's spirit returns to God who gave it. What happens to the spirit after this? And could it be in heaven as some people think? Could this be the spirit that we will get at the resurrection?
Thanks, Frank.

hi! I'll put in my 2 cents worth ( :2c: ) ...I believe what many think of as the 'soul' or spirit is the psyche of a person.. what I believe the Bible refers to as one's heart..

It's true "God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul".. and animals are also called "living souls"

which means I believe, they are "alive".. I believe death is nonlife, nbot merely another dimension of "life".

Hence a christian "sleeps" when in the grave, having been born again.. But God is aLL Powerfuland can resurrect all.. which of course He does, bore witness to by there being prophesied two resurrections.. Of the saved/born again/transformed-to-begin to be "in the image of Jesus" (likeness)

Surely(?) there is gReat purpose to our living this life (life as we presently know it)...
:Peace2: peace and blessings..

[Tom]

http://concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/WhatIsTheSoul.html

[JulieTang84]

I think what Tom is saying, is that the SOUL is the body or at least the mind. For we are told that the soul that sins shall die. The body turns to Dust.


Yet, I have a much different view on Spirit. What do we know of the Spirit in whose image we were created. Well, this Spirit of which we are all part of cannot die. Father does not change, but change he would if billions of tiny parts of him died.


This is illogical in concept and also in Scripture. Father is not human, even though we appear to be. Father is Spirit and we must in some part, perhaps unknown, be also. It can be no other way. What is more, we have proof. Jesus was Spirit, gave it up and came to Earth as a perfect human. Not to Lord it over us, but to have compassion to the point of dying for our sins and bringing his life back to Earth, to prove that death is a fallacy. He took the sins of the world away to that we could all be free to be prefect in which Jesus told us to be. (Sin is still the focus of my Christians! Why??)


So here we have a problem. Father cannot cause part of himself die, just because our earthly bodies do. Jesus's Earthly body died, but He did not. If Jesus was truly dead, he would not have been able to bring it back. That Jesus was a perfect human must not be overlooked. One would expect Him to be able to do things that we quite likely cannot. He came back as the same person in three days. He knew everything that went on prior. As we are not nearly as spiritually developed and not in anyway perfect as Jesus, it is quite likely we would not come back in the same bodies or even in the same decade, remembering practically nothing.


Has anyone experienced de-ja-vu, knowing that you have been some place you have just visited for the first time. Or remembering something that you had no reason to have ever known? For sure, many Christians will quickly state that this is evil spirits. But with everything that we have learned from Scripture, it is certainly possible that these memories are from past lives.


One last thing that is worth pondering on. Jesus said that he would come back in three days. What if the ones whom He was speaking to were not shocked that He would come back, but that He would or even could come back in the same body in THREE DAYS!!!!!


Please take all of this with an open mind. Everything offered can be witnessed with Scripture.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Lazarus Short]

Julie, in regard to reincarnation, recall Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus.  Jesus spoke of being born again, and Nicodemus opined that it must mean needing to come out of his mother's womb a second time.  It was a PERFECT setup for Jesus to expound on the subject of reincarnation.  But He did not.  Recall also that Jesus had told His disciples that if it were not so, He would have told them.  Given all that, I think and believe that reincarnation is not so.

There is the witness of Scripture, and besides that (As ever, I don't get the book/chapter/verse referenced in my mind, just the concept.) the Scriptures say somewhere that it is appointed once for a man to die, and then the judgment.

[bj127]

Julie, you wrote: "Not to Lord it over us, but to have compassion to the point of dying for our sins and bringing his life back to Earth, to prove that death is a fallacy."
According to scripture, Jesus did not bring his life back to earth....God, his father, roused Jesus from the dead.  It appears (please correct me if I've misinterpreted you're stance) that you are equating Father with His Son as equal.  I agree God cannot die.  Jesus as a perfect man can and did die.  This is dangerously close to acceptance of the trinity which is not scriptural.  I point this out so that a more in depth study of scripture may result. Blessings and love to you.    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

There is the witness of Scripture, and besides that (As ever, I don't get the book/chapter/verse referenced in my mind, just the concept.) the Scriptures say somewhere that it is appointed once for a man to die, and then the judgment.

I'm not taking sides in the reincarnation discussion with what I will write below. Just writing down what I think I know...

Likely, as in  :2c:, that verse is not about the destiny of mankind but about the high priest. Read the surrounding verses. It's Temple service stuff. Shortly, quite sure 7 days, before the day of atonement the high priest went into solitary in a special (upper?????) room in the Temple for extreme deep prayer/repentance)
The high priest died symbolically.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment:

[WhiteWings]

A take it or leave it statement follows.... :banana:

Always look how things fit into marriage and Temple duties.

"If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."

The Bible writers had a very limited toolbox :hammerhead:

[marie glen]

..yet with all that, the Hebrew and Greek languages are very broad and expressive.. I think the "problem" is with the human mind which misinterprets.. That, imo, isn't to say the Word of God (mighty sWord of Truth) can't be understood, for God's Spirit (Presence?) comes alongside and reveals the Word.. it's intent and original meaning.. "He will guide you into aLL truth..."

I love the comparing of teachings and doctrines to the Hebrew wedding ceremony.. and to temple procedure(s)..

in all humbleness and as one who once believed in reincarnation, or thought it might be somewhat likely, I'm now very glad to not believe in reincarnation.. as I think of that as very messy and confusing..

I have a tendency to think of family as a forever pattern within the larger human family.. and I think it's a wonderful and glorious thing, and I think of our loving Father as one who loves order..

plus we can see the value of a belief or doctrine by its fruit. and reincarnation has its castes which if one is starving in the ditch one might not aid them as surely they deserve it because of doing evil in a previous life, and also things such as channeling have come about through it and past life regressions and the like, and everyone in a past life or channeling seem to be someone quite famous.

I also believe inherent immortality is something very deep in the psyche of mankind, as it was one of the first untruths, veRy ancient and veRy built into man's religions - "surely... you won't... die?!"

I really believe death is nonlife/death, and not another dimension of life, which is why I believe no one goes to the LOF, the explanation of the LOF as still death as life, to me, doesn't fly..

and I cannot conceive of the non-elect needing any sort of torture to bring about the Will of God, nor any sort of cleansing while in repose, why wouldn't they too have to go through refiner's fire known as repentance and sorrowing for one's sins/imperfections and mistakes.. a time of personal great sorrow, wailing and even gnashing of teeth.. same as the elect..
:girlheart:

[JulieTang84]

Julie, you wrote: "Not to Lord it over us, but to have compassion to the point of dying for our sins and bringing his life back to Earth, to prove that death is a fallacy."
According to scripture, Jesus did not bring his life back to earth....God, his father, roused Jesus from the dead.  It appears (please correct me if I've misinterpreted you're stance) that you are equating Father with His Son as equal.  I agree God cannot die.  Jesus as a perfect man can and did die.  This is dangerously close to acceptance of the trinity which is not scriptural.  I point this out so that a more in depth study of scripture may result. Blessings and love to you.    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

BJ the word should have been LAUD. oops.

Jhn 10:17
The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

Jhn 10:18
No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Jesus bought his life back on his own Authority, something he could not have done if his spirit was dead. Where in Scripture does it say spirit will die?

If Christ Jesus spirit did not die, on what grounds can we say that ours will?

1Cr 3:11
For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Clearly mankind has built many things on this foundation. Most fit for destruction. Yet the foundation will always be the same. This is how and why we see truly brothers and sisters with Christ and sons and daughters of Father.

When this is realized, ones whole human experience changes for the better.


Yes Jesus Christ the Spirit is identicle to Father.

Heb 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

One is the Father and the Other the Son from which all things came.

I abhor the concept of the trinity.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[WhiteWings]

..yet with all that, the Hebrew and Greek languages are very broad and expressive.. I think the "problem" is with the human mind which misinterprets.. That, imo, isn't to say the Word of God (mighty sWord of Truth) can't be understood, for God's Spirit (Presence?) comes alongside and reveals the Word.. it's intent and original meaning.. "He will guide you into aLL truth..."

I think it can be stated as a fact the human mind misinterprets. Hence a zillion views on about everything. Some things are really deep and will be only be understood by the best of the best. Unfortunately even at the very basic level things go wrong.

Are the wheels within wheels of Ezekiel really UFO's or are they Temple stuff?
Are locusts of Revelation really modern helicopters or something the ancient Jews knew about?
Are there really ancient descriptions of nuclear strikes in Revelation?
That's the very first disagreement and a very important one. Why is the whole bible ancient stuff and simple farming terms and one book is all about 21st century stuff.
Little hope on agrement....

[Lazarus Short]

Little hope on agrement....

We can agree on that!  :gimmefive:

[WhiteWings]

That's a start  :banana:

[sheila]

.....the wheellswithin wheels....related tothe wittness inthe stars..is all about theTemple arrangement

andthe divine salvation/restoration of man.......

   asthesungoesforth from hischamber as a bridegroom..as the earth helps the woman

thatencompasses the man..asthemoon reflects the lightof the sun amidst the darkness

   Job 38;31-34...seven Pleides as  sevenchurches...the Beautiful Pleides..how beautiful

the feet shod with the goodnews of the Gospel....all ofitwheelworks within wheelworks


    as the potter at the potters wheel,so,too the Godof Heaven is praisedforthe

works of His hands.   andthe works of Hishaands brings great glory to His name


    I do not know that,we as mere mortals intheseold wineskins can contain the fullscope

ofHim.....Jesus said we couldn't....butthroughthe token given..wecan somewhat grasp

His Glry..through His son..through the wholecreationthat testifies of Him.


    He far surpasses our understanding...and Jesus said...Ihave manythings yet to speak to

you,but at present,yecan not bear it. AndinLove He and Fatherdoes notgive uswhat

we can not bear.  His load is light,His pateince long-suffering.Andwhenwefall Hegivesus

a little help

    HE IS THE GREATEST TREASURE WE HAVE...and HE CONSIDERS US HIS TREASURE ALSO

   

[WhiteWings]

.....the wheellswithin wheels....related tothe wittness inthe stars..

Or the menorah.
Pickup a flashlight and swing it in the dark. You will see a trail of light.
Now spin a Menorah over its vertial axis.
You will get two flaming concentric circles (wheels) and a dot/axle in the middle.

:Chinscratch:

[T-Bone]

I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT SINCE GOD BREATHED HIS LIFE ( HIS SPIRIT ) INTO US THAT WITHOUT IT WE WOULD SURELY BE DEAD, SO WHEN WE DIE THE SPIRIT RETURNS TO THE SOURCE I.E. TO GOD.

[Lazarus Short]

I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT SINCE GOD BREATHED HIS LIFE ( HIS SPIRIT ) INTO US THAT WITHOUT IT WE WOULD SURELY BE DEAD, SO WHEN WE DIE THE SPIRIT RETURNS TO THE SOURCE I.E. TO GOD.

YES  :iagree:

[Seth]

I ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT SINCE GOD BREATHED HIS LIFE ( HIS SPIRIT ) INTO US THAT WITHOUT IT WE WOULD SURELY BE DEAD, SO WHEN WE DIE THE SPIRIT RETURNS TO THE SOURCE I.E. TO GOD.

:iagree: